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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Anet's curious game design decisions that caused the 20-70 wasteland

9 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
170 posts found
  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5547

1/08/13 9:08:01 AM#41
Originally posted by Lazarus71
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Leucent
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Leucent

Lol, I m on Helscream, but as I said it s constantly cahnging. So your numbers DON T WORK.

Zero people in Southern Barrens. I am even headed over there to see if I can see one single person CRZ. 

 

Zero.

Cool, considering I m standing next to 4 people in southern barrens as we speak.

[mod edit]

You are also talking about WoW which is now an 8 year old game that has turned into a LFD lobby game. When WoW had been out as long as GW2 has now there was no lack of players in any zone at all and for many years this was the case.  Therefore it's not really a valid comparison because of the difference in age of both games. 

Oh, I agree with you. I mean, it is a valid comparison because it has the most users out of any themepark ever right at this moment, but I agree that it has turned into a LFD lobby and that is teh reason the world is less popualted as I have stated before.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

1/08/13 9:08:44 AM#42
Originally posted by Lazarus71
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Leucent
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Leucent

Lol, I m on Helscream, but as I said it s constantly cahnging. So your numbers DON T WORK.

Zero people in Southern Barrens. I am even headed over there to see if I can see one single person CRZ. 

 

Zero.

Cool, considering I m standing next to 4 people in southern barrens as we speak.

Your character would show up on my who. It does not. You are lying again.

You are also talking about WoW which is now an 8 year old game that has turned into a LFD lobby game. When WoW had been out as long as GW2 has now there was no lack of players in any zone at all and for many years this was the case.  Therefore it's not really a valid comparison because of the difference in age of both games. 

There ere not that many MMO's out when WoW came on to the scene, either. Can't really compare.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11412

1/08/13 9:10:57 AM#43
Originally posted by colddog04
 it has turned into a LFD lobby and that is teh reason the world is less popualted as I have stated before.

thats my biggest issue w dungeon finders - especially if they are cross server

makes a mmo feel like a lobby game

  Lazarus71

Old School

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 980

I play the games I like and don't dwell on the ones I don't, complicated philosophy I know....

1/08/13 9:12:53 AM#44
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by colddog04
 it has turned into a LFD lobby and that is teh reason the world is less popualted as I have stated before.

thats my biggest issue w dungeon finders - especially if they are cross server

makes a mmo feel like a lobby game

While I do think at a late late stage in a MMOs life the LFD can be a valid tool I have to agree when any MMO talks of adding one I cringe.

No signature, I don't have a pen

  kyssari

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 159

"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.

1/08/13 9:19:07 AM#45

My biggest issue with this so called wasteland is GW2's skill system actually. That being said the wasteland exists more 30-80 rather than 20. The thing is once you hit 30 and unlock your Elite skill slot you can technically have every skill in the game unlocked that your character can ever possibly use. You can easily get all the skillpoints from all the pvp zones and 1-35 zones (and even a number of higher ones if have to) to unlock everything at 30.

That being said I often found myself burning out around mid30s-40 with my alts because by that time I had all the skills unlocked I was interested in and thus I really had nothing to look foward to until 80. That leaves 40-50 lvls of nothing but gear upgrades really. With most other mmo's leveling up to gain access to those cool new abilities played a much larger part in making me want to hit those high levels with numerous toons so I could play with those new abilities. This doesn't really exist in as much with GW2, especially when you ause the Heart of the Mists area.

Not saying the system is good or bad just the biggest reason for my fast burnout on the game in general.

  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 964

1/08/13 9:21:31 AM#46
Those zones are a westeland because GW2 doesnt have enought new players in the game, it happen with pretty much everysingle MMO in the market a few month later after launch, plus GW2 have no replayability, people hit 80, then quit or just do Casual PvP, and if you just want to PvP, there is no need to go to the PvE world.   
  User Deleted
1/08/13 9:21:40 AM#47
Originally posted by botrytis
 
 

That is why they have level scaling so you can go back to zones and do things you missed without being bored. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of thing. Also, I don't think A.Net expected people to play 8-10 hours a day every day.

 

Good points.  There is no win for the fast / slow design question.  At this point I'm rethinking levels.  I've already eliminated XP :-)  We'll see how that goes.

 

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1385

1/08/13 9:25:15 AM#48
Originally posted by kyssari

My biggest issue with this so called wasteland is GW2's skill system actually. That being said the wasteland exists more 30-80 rather than 20. The thing is once you hit 30 and unlock your Elite skill slot you can technically have every skill in the game unlocked that your character can ever possibly use. You can easily get all the skillpoints from all the pvp zones and 1-35 zones (and even a number of higher ones if have to) to unlock everything at 30.

That being said I often found myself burning out around mid30s-40 with my alts because by that time I had all the skills unlocked I was interested in and thus I really had nothing to look foward to until 80. That leaves 40-50 lvls of nothing but gear upgrades really. With most other mmo's leveling up to gain access to those cool new abilities played a much larger part in making me want to hit those high levels with numerous toons so I could play with those new abilities. This doesn't really exist in as much with GW2, especially when you ause the Heart of the Mists area.

Not saying the system is good or bad just the biggest reason for my fast burnout on the game in general.

This is the real problem, not anything to do with the zones (although the difficulty is very low until the later zones).  Character progression, which they already know is very limited past lvl 30, needs some significant work. 

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2136

1/08/13 9:27:36 AM#49

I'm on Far Shiverpeaks and sure mid range zones are somewhat emty but not THAT emty I do see people running around and I do see people writing in map chat and doing DE together.

What really bugs me the most is that Orr is emty and doing map completion alone in those zones are a pain in the ass.

Straight of Devastation tend to have more players due to the temple if It's up and If It's not, then there are always some people trying to do that loooong boring DE chain to trigger the assult.

Overall I don't see a wasteland in 20-70 zones but they are not bustling zones either.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2588

1/08/13 9:37:15 AM#50
Originally posted by Lazarus71
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Leucent
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Leucent

Lol, I m on Helscream, but as I said it s constantly cahnging. So your numbers DON T WORK.

Zero people in Southern Barrens. I am even headed over there to see if I can see one single person CRZ. 

 

Zero.

Cool, considering I m standing next to 4 people in southern barrens as we speak.

Your character would show up on my who. It does not. You are lying again.

You are also talking about WoW which is now an 8 year old game that has turned into a LFD lobby game. When WoW had been out as long as GW2 has now there was no lack of players in any zone at all and for many years this was the case.  Therefore it's not really a valid comparison because of the difference in age of both games. 

It was also during the explosion of the Internet where the amount of available games too choose from was very limited and compared to most WoW felt like a professional product competing with amateur products.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4808

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

1/08/13 9:40:53 AM#51

Zone level scaling is simply not implemented in a good way.

 

Here is what happens :

1. You are scalled to roughly same level as content but you are still more powerful due to your equiped gear.

- This is somehow good and would encourage players to play these zones since they are more effective in playing them ...

However

1. Zone rewards and item drops are same as zone level -

- Why should player grind (play) zone that gives him less reward than another one ?

2. Diminishing event rewards -

- Heart events you can do only once (Fail decision) , and events give diminished returns to prevent farming (another fail decision)

 

So simply there is no reason for players to go back to the zone once they hit 100% completion

 

---

This can be remedied very easily - if Anet only wanted (question is : do they ?)

 

1 Make zone rewards same as your level

2 Give unique usefull drops in specific areas

3 Make heart quest re doable

4 Make zone events that are unique for area - and that really mater - reward wise

 

 

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2766

1/08/13 9:43:36 AM#52
It's pretty dumb not to scale the DE's to the number of players actually in that area.  MMO design 101 right there.
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

1/08/13 9:43:54 AM#53
Originally posted by kyssari

My biggest issue with this so called wasteland is GW2's skill system actually. That being said the wasteland exists more 30-80 rather than 20. The thing is once you hit 30 and unlock your Elite skill slot you can technically have every skill in the game unlocked that your character can ever possibly use. You can easily get all the skillpoints from all the pvp zones and 1-35 zones (and even a number of higher ones if have to) to unlock everything at 30.

That being said I often found myself burning out around mid30s-40 with my alts because by that time I had all the skills unlocked I was interested in and thus I really had nothing to look foward to until 80. That leaves 40-50 lvls of nothing but gear upgrades really. With most other mmo's leveling up to gain access to those cool new abilities played a much larger part in making me want to hit those high levels with numerous toons so I could play with those new abilities. This doesn't really exist in as much with GW2, especially when you ause the Heart of the Mists area.

Not saying the system is good or bad just the biggest reason for my fast burnout on the game in general.

 

Wow, someone is forgetting to allocate their trait points it seems. You don't seem to realize how much you can customize your character with traits. One I like personally is one that I use to change dodging into an offensive weapon for my mesmer. There are more layers than just the skills you see on top.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

1/08/13 9:46:00 AM#54
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Zone level scaling is simply not implemented in a good way.

 

Here is what happens :

1. You are scalled to roughly same level as content but you are still more powerful due to your equiped gear.

- This is somehow good and would encourage players to play these zones since they are more effective in playing them ...

However

1. Zone rewards and item drops are same as zone level -

- Why should player grind (play) zone that gives him less reward than another one ?

 

 

This is  incorrect... item drops also scale to your actual level.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

1/08/13 9:46:34 AM#55
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
It's pretty dumb not to scale the DE's to the number of players actually in that area.  MMO design 101 right there.

They scale to the number of people actually participating in the events.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  LadyEuphei

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 226

1/08/13 9:53:15 AM#56
I blame it on fractals. That is all everyone does now adays. They need to make something compelling to leave fractals or the occational dungeon. Give us some reason to explore again!

  Bloodaxes

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 2604

1/08/13 9:54:14 AM#57
I was forced to move in the human maps to finish events else I was 90% of the times alone and no champion fight event was ever done...

  User Deleted
1/08/13 9:54:52 AM#58
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Zone level scaling is simply not implemented in a good way.

 

Here is what happens :

1. You are scalled to roughly same level as content but you are still more powerful due to your equiped gear.

- This is somehow good and would encourage players to play these zones since they are more effective in playing them ...

However

1. Zone rewards and item drops are same as zone level -

- Why should player grind (play) zone that gives him less reward than another one ?

 

 

This is  incorrect... item drops also scale to your actual level.

Getting an item drop that you can actually use is such a remote possibility and certainly does not provide enough incentive for most high level players to spend time in the lower level zones. 

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5547

1/08/13 9:56:43 AM#59
Originally posted by fat_taddler
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Zone level scaling is simply not implemented in a good way.

 

Here is what happens :

1. You are scalled to roughly same level as content but you are still more powerful due to your equiped gear.

- This is somehow good and would encourage players to play these zones since they are more effective in playing them ...

However

1. Zone rewards and item drops are same as zone level -

- Why should player grind (play) zone that gives him less reward than another one ?

This is  incorrect... item drops also scale to your actual level.

Getting an item drop that you can actually use is such a remote possibility and certainly does not provide enough incentive for most high level players to spend time in the lower level zones. 

Yeah, it's tough because if you make it give the same rewards as the top zones, people will begin farming lower zones for items. They talked about this one time and it's the reason why the drop rates are much lower in lower level zones for similar level gear.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Lazarus71

Old School

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 980

I play the games I like and don't dwell on the ones I don't, complicated philosophy I know....

1/08/13 9:59:00 AM#60
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by fat_taddler
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Zone level scaling is simply not implemented in a good way.

 

Here is what happens :

1. You are scalled to roughly same level as content but you are still more powerful due to your equiped gear.

- This is somehow good and would encourage players to play these zones since they are more effective in playing them ...

However

1. Zone rewards and item drops are same as zone level -

- Why should player grind (play) zone that gives him less reward than another one ?

This is  incorrect... item drops also scale to your actual level.

Getting an item drop that you can actually use is such a remote possibility and certainly does not provide enough incentive for most high level players to spend time in the lower level zones. 

Yeah, it's tough because if you make it give the same rewards as the top zones, people will begin farming lower zones for items. They talked about this one time and it's the reason why the drop rates are much lower in lower level zones for similar level gear.

It all makes me realize how monumentally challenging it would be to be part of these games development, upkeep and evolution lol.

No signature, I don't have a pen

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