This is a nut that no MMO has ever cracked. 

The only near successful way to deal with the mid range hole, is to maintain a rate of success in bringing in new players sufficient to populate said zones. 

WOW appears to be the only mega-success at this, while GW2, appears to be sinking, or at least in serious bail out territory.

Originally posted by ennymith

This is a nut that no MMO has ever cracked. 

The only near successful way to deal with the mid range hole, is to maintain a rate of success in bringing in new players sufficient to populate said zones. 

WOW appears to be the only mega-success at this, while GW2, appears to be sinking, or at least in serious bail out territory.

Except WoW actually seems to have less people in the zones than GW2 while leveling. In WoW I would literally see 0 - 2 people in each zone. This is very recent though, not when MOP first came out.

I think it's due to how amazing the xp in dungeons and bgs is. It keeps people out of the world.

Originally posted by skydiver12

 

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Originally posted by botrytisI don't think they are broke - they just don't work the way you want them to. A.Net is trying to make sure things are fixed properly - they already got bit by one patch (the Karka issue) and are probably trying to make sure they don't break things. You either get patches fast and break things or you get them a little slow and fix things - which do you want?

---

 

If you put out that question, of course i want them to fix things (neither slow nor "fast").
However some things don't need "fixing" they need an overhaul in my opinion.

For both, fixes as well as complete and partial changes to the core of systems, you need first acknowledgement. Which is my point, there is none. Polite threads asking if there is something missing or broken, or even just asking if it is WAI, get either deleted in the offical forums or no response.

...

Besides, "i want them to" is a strange term, if someone tells me i can viable do lower content i expect it, i don't expect the EXACT same challenge if any. But in no way or shape "ONE SHOT" ranks within common sense or reasonable. And yes i one shot lvl 70 Risen with my thief, as well as i did one shot and/or 3 hit stuff at lvl 44 scaled in queensdale. (i mean regular mobs!).

 

You want them to acknowledge that your opinion is right and act on that where as many disagree with your opinion and don't feel such radical changes are needed? How bizarre. 

Regarding the second part there... the yellow text answers everything. You're a thief, a glass cannon. I've been taken down by thieves in WvW in a couple shots on my mesmer in full exotics. It's what they do... if you catch them you can melt them rather easily. If they get you first however it's rather unpleasant. 

Here's something to try... take your thief to Southsun Cove and see how you do against the little karka. I'm actually curious... I can take one out solo in about five second on my mesmer (the key is to let them kill themselves, actually)... I'd be curious to see how a thief does in that environment. I've noticed a lack of thieves there doing any sort of farming. Of course... this has nothing to do with the lower level zones, but I am curious on that. 

Oh... I had five powerful bloods drop in about 20 mins in Southsun... did they up the drop rate or did the RNG gods finally smile at me for once?

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by ennymith

This is a nut that no MMO has ever cracked. 

The only near successful way to deal with the mid range hole, is to maintain a rate of success in bringing in new players sufficient to populate said zones. 

WOW appears to be the only mega-success at this, while GW2, appears to be sinking, or at least in serious bail out territory.

Except WoW actually seems to have less people in the zones than GW2 while leveling. In WoW I would literally see 0 - 2 people in each zone. This is very recent though, not when MOP first came out.

 

I think it's due to how amazing the xp in dungeons and bgs is. It keeps people out of the world.

That and the fact that once you outlevel a WoW zone there's nothing to go back for... no relevant drops, no challenge, nothing. You leave a zone and you might as well delete that portion of the game for your character. I played until pre-Cata and once you got to 80 that was it... the game was nothing more than Dalaran, Northrend raids and... well, maybe go to IronForge or Stormwind if the Horde was feeling froggy.

Originally posted by colddog04
Which themepark style game are you playing that has all the mid-level zones bustling with people? 

I play both Rift, and WoW, and both are extremely active in mid levels.

Originally posted by ennymith

GW2, appears to be sinking, or at least in serious bail out territory.

not sure what you base "GW2 sinking" on

financials for Q4 2012 will be reported next month

- revealing how successful the game continues to be

Originally posted by ennymith

This is a nut that no MMO has ever cracked. 

The only near successful way to deal with the mid range hole, is to maintain a rate of success in bringing in new players sufficient to populate said zones. 

WOW appears to be the only mega-success at this, while GW2, appears to be sinking, or at least in serious bail out territory.

 

Or have quests that require higher level players to return to lower level areas.  Or just have multi-level areas, I have never understood why this idea hasn't been explored, and I don't mean the arbitrary dynamic level adjustment as per GW2, I mean have an area where the further or deeper or higher you explore, the harder the mobs. 

Originally posted by botrytis

 

GW2 also has flat leveling, meaning to get to the next level you need to get the same amount of exp as the previous.

In looking at how this is designed, I think the flat leveling is part of the problem with empty mid-level zones.

One of the reasons games use exponential time to completion growth as levels go up is to bunch people up at mid levels because that's where the curve starts slowing down.  Even if 50% of the players drop out by mid-level, there are still many people playing at mid-level because it takes incredibly long to get out of it.

Without exponential growth of time to level, there is no mechanism bunching them up.  Only at reaching level cap does population go back up, because these players are stuck there with more added daily.

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by botrytis

 

GW2 also has flat leveling, meaning to get to the next level you need to get the same amount of exp as the previous.

 

In looking at how this is designed, I think the flat leveling is part of the problem with empty mid-level zones.

 

One of the reasons games use exponential time to completion growth as levels go up is to bunch people up at mid levels because that's where the curve starts slowing down.  Even if 50% of the players drop out by mid-level, there are still many people playing at mid-level because it takes incredibly long to get out of it.

 

Without exponential growth of time to level, there is no mechanism bunching them up.  Only at reaching level cap does population go back up, because these players are stuck there with more added daily.

 

 

They purposely did flat leveling because people were complaining about how games have gone to exponential lelveing making it a real grind to level out. This is the belssing and curse that is GW2. That is why they have level scaling so you can go back to zones and do things you missed without being bored. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of thing. Also, I don't think A.Net expected people to play 8-10 hours a day every day.

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04
Which themepark style game are you playing that has all the mid-level zones bustling with people? 

I play both Rift, and WoW, and both are extremely active in mid levels.

I'll show you right now what is in WoW. And it is anything but populated.

And the actual chance of seeing those people is extremely low since you will not be leveling in the same area. Those numbers are far lower than the number of people I find in GW2 zones, even if GW2 zones are underpopulated.

---

Originally posted by Volkon
You want them to acknowledge that your opinion is right and act on that where as many disagree with your opinion and don't feel such radical changes are needed? How bizarre. 

Regarding the second part there... the yellow text answers everything. You're a thief, a glass cannon. I've been taken down by thieves in WvW in a couple shots on my mesmer in full exotics. It's what they do... if you catch them you can melt them rather easily. If they get you first however it's rather unpleasant. 

Here's something to try... take your thief to Southsun Cove and see how you do against the little karka. I'm actually curious... I can take one out solo in about five second on my mesmer (the key is to let them kill themselves, actually)... I'd be curious to see how a thief does in that environment. I've noticed a lack of thieves there doing any sort of farming. Of course... this has nothing to do with the lower level zones, but I am curious on that. 

Oh... I had five powerful bloods drop in about 20 mins in Southsun... did they up the drop rate or did the RNG gods finally smile at me for once?

---

Same could be said about your opinion. Pointless comment.

Regarding your second part, learn to read, which part of thief, guardian, warrior, engineer did you miss?

Just because some GC thief killed you in PVP stop assuming every thief out there is like that.
My knight and valkyre gear scream you are clueless and yes i carry only one dagger for RP reasons.

If i go anywhere to prove something i'd rather take my geared guardian and aoe roflstomp 10 enemies at once.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04
Which themepark style game are you playing that has all the mid-level zones bustling with people? 

I play both Rift, and WoW, and both are extremely active in mid levels.

I'll show you right now what is in WoW. And it is anything but populated.

 

WoW - Moonguard
Feralas	3	lvl 39	lvl 90	lvl 90
Desolace	2	lvl 35	lvl 90
Southern Barrens	1	lvl 90
Witnerspring	2	lvl 50	lvl 80

 

And the actual chance of seeing those people is extremely low since you will not be leveling in the same area. Those numbers are far lower than the number of people I find in GW2 zones, even if GW2 zones are underpopulated.

Well, lets see. I logged into wow just now at lvl 35 and got a dungeon pop in 2 mins. Then I ran through southern barrens to lvl up my pets, saw at least 20 people. I can tell you that when I was playing GW2 I would run into next to no one at lvl 20, and that was 2 months ago. Take into account the CRZ, and boom, you have a busier game then GW2 empty zones.

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04
Which themepark style game are you playing that has all the mid-level zones bustling with people? 

I play both Rift, and WoW, and both are extremely active in mid levels.

I'll show you right now what is in WoW. And it is anything but populated.

 

WoW - Moonguard
Feralas	3	lvl 39	lvl 90	lvl 90
Desolace	2	lvl 35	lvl 90
Southern Barrens	1	lvl 90
Witnerspring	2	lvl 50	lvl 80

 

And the actual chance of seeing those people is extremely low since you will not be leveling in the same area. Those numbers are far lower than the number of people I find in GW2 zones, even if GW2 zones are underpopulated.

Well, lets see. I logged into wow just now at lvl 35 and got a dungeon pop in 2 mins. Then I ran through southern barrens to lvl up my pets, saw at least 20 people. I can tell you that when I was playing GW2 I would run into next to no one at lvl 20, and that was 2 months ago. Take into account the CRZ, and boom, you have a busier game then GW2 empty zones.

Some of the lvl20-70 barren zones -pictures ranging between last week and last month for the blue water one.

I'll see if I remember to take a few more screen shots this week while playing.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04
Which themepark style game are you playing that has all the mid-level zones bustling with people? 

I play both Rift, and WoW, and both are extremely active in mid levels.

I'll show you right now what is in WoW. And it is anything but populated.

 

WoW - Moonguard
Feralas	3	lvl 39	lvl 90	lvl 90
Desolace	2	lvl 35	lvl 90
Southern Barrens	1	lvl 90
Witnerspring	2	lvl 50	lvl 80

 

And the actual chance of seeing those people is extremely low since you will not be leveling in the same area. Those numbers are far lower than the number of people I find in GW2 zones, even if GW2 zones are underpopulated.

Well, lets see. I logged into wow just now at lvl 35 and got a dungeon pop in 2 mins. Then I ran through southern barrens to lvl up my pets, saw at least 20 people. I can tell you that when I was playing GW2 I would run into next to no one at lvl 20, and that was 2 months ago. Take into account the CRZ, and boom, you have a busier game then GW2 empty zones.

What... yeah, instanced dungeon pops are common. But this bullshit lie about seeing 20 people in southern barrens right now is just lying bullshit.

 

What server are you on so I can check your story? Or are you not going to tell me?

Lol, CRZ is changing constantly. That, would mean your numbers aren t correct. It isn t perfect by any means, as my wife and I would be questing, and she wouldn t be with me, then boom she is. That said, people come and go because of this, so your number taking isn t going to work.

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04
Which themepark style game are you playing that has all the mid-level zones bustling with people? 

I play both Rift, and WoW, and both are extremely active in mid levels.

I'll show you right now what is in WoW. And it is anything but populated.

 

WoW - Moonguard
Feralas	3	lvl 39	lvl 90	lvl 90
Desolace	2	lvl 35	lvl 90
Southern Barrens	1	lvl 90
Witnerspring	2	lvl 50	lvl 80

 

And the actual chance of seeing those people is extremely low since you will not be leveling in the same area. Those numbers are far lower than the number of people I find in GW2 zones, even if GW2 zones are underpopulated.

Well, lets see. I logged into wow just now at lvl 35 and got a dungeon pop in 2 mins. Then I ran through southern barrens to lvl up my pets, saw at least 20 people. I can tell you that when I was playing GW2 I would run into next to no one at lvl 20, and that was 2 months ago. Take into account the CRZ, and boom, you have a busier game then GW2 empty zones.

What... yeah, instanced dungeon pops are common. But this bullshit lie about seeing 20 people in southern barrens right now is just lying bullshit.

 

What server are you on so I can check your story? Or are you not going to tell me?

Lol, CRZ is changing constantly. That, would mean your numbers aren t correct. It isn t perfect by any means, as my wife and I would be questing, and she wouldn t be with me, then boom she is. That said, people come and go because of this, so your number taking isn t going to work.

What do you know? You won't tell me your server... figures.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04
Which themepark style game are you playing that has all the mid-level zones bustling with people? 

I play both Rift, and WoW, and both are extremely active in mid levels.

I'll show you right now what is in WoW. And it is anything but populated.

 

WoW - Moonguard
Feralas	3	lvl 39	lvl 90	lvl 90
Desolace	2	lvl 35	lvl 90
Southern Barrens	1	lvl 90
Witnerspring	2	lvl 50	lvl 80

 

And the actual chance of seeing those people is extremely low since you will not be leveling in the same area. Those numbers are far lower than the number of people I find in GW2 zones, even if GW2 zones are underpopulated.

Well, lets see. I logged into wow just now at lvl 35 and got a dungeon pop in 2 mins. Then I ran through southern barrens to lvl up my pets, saw at least 20 people. I can tell you that when I was playing GW2 I would run into next to no one at lvl 20, and that was 2 months ago. Take into account the CRZ, and boom, you have a busier game then GW2 empty zones.

Some of the lvl20-70 barren zones -pictures ranging between last week and last month for the water one.

I'll see if I remember to take a few more screen shots this week while playing.

Cool, glad to see there are some people still playing. I sure never saw that many pople ever at lvl 20.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04
Which themepark style game are you playing that has all the mid-level zones bustling with people? 

I play both Rift, and WoW, and both are extremely active in mid levels.

I'll show you right now what is in WoW. And it is anything but populated.

 

WoW - Moonguard
Feralas	3	lvl 39	lvl 90	lvl 90
Desolace	2	lvl 35	lvl 90
Southern Barrens	1	lvl 90
Witnerspring	2	lvl 50	lvl 80

 

And the actual chance of seeing those people is extremely low since you will not be leveling in the same area. Those numbers are far lower than the number of people I find in GW2 zones, even if GW2 zones are underpopulated.

Well, lets see. I logged into wow just now at lvl 35 and got a dungeon pop in 2 mins. Then I ran through southern barrens to lvl up my pets, saw at least 20 people. I can tell you that when I was playing GW2 I would run into next to no one at lvl 20, and that was 2 months ago. Take into account the CRZ, and boom, you have a busier game then GW2 empty zones.

What... yeah, instanced dungeon pops are common. But this bullshit lie about seeing 20 people in southern barrens right now is just lying bullshit.

 

What server are you on so I can check your story? Or are you not going to tell me?

Lol, CRZ is changing constantly. That, would mean your numbers aren t correct. It isn t perfect by any means, as my wife and I would be questing, and she wouldn t be with me, then boom she is. That said, people come and go because of this, so your number taking isn t going to work.

What do you know? You won't tell me your server... figures.

Lol, I m on Helscream, but as I said it s constantly cahnging. So your numbers DON T WORK.

Originally posted by Leucent

Lol, I m on Helscream, but as I said it s constantly cahnging. So your numbers DON T WORK.

Zero people in Southern Barrens. I am even headed over there to see if I can see one single person CRZ. 

Zero.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Lol, I m on Helscream, but as I said it s constantly cahnging. So your numbers DON T WORK.

Zero people in Southern Barrens. I am even headed over there to see if I can see one single person CRZ. 

 

Zero.

Cool, considering I m standing next to 4 people in southern barrens as we speak.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Leucent

Lol, I m on Helscream, but as I said it s constantly cahnging. So your numbers DON T WORK.

Zero people in Southern Barrens. I am even headed over there to see if I can see one single person CRZ. 

 

Zero.

Cool, considering I m standing next to 4 people in southern barrens as we speak.

[mod edit]

You are also talking about WoW which is now an 8 year old game that has turned into a LFD lobby game. When WoW had been out as long as GW2 has now there was no lack of players in any zone at all and for many years this was the case.  Therefore it's not really a valid comparison because of the difference in age of both games.