Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

If it is a vocal minority versus a silent majority - then what would you do?  Right now this looks like the situation that is going on. If a person got 1000 hours out of GW2 for the price - can you get the same amount out of Skyrim which was the same price?

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

If it is a vocal minority versus a silent majority - then what would you do?  Right now this looks like the situation that is going on. If a person got 1000 hours out of GW2 for the price - can you get the same amount out of Skyrim which was the same price?

So because its only a "minority" that are complaining (though you provide no proof to back up what you are saying) that means they don't have the right to voice thier complaints?  Thats some danergous thinking.

The game really runs in course after a few months with little left to do. My whole guild basically left after the first few months, some never to be seen again lol. I lasted maybe 3 months, there just wasnt anything that was interesting to stay and do. WvW was what I bought the game for and after doing so much it got very boring, plus they havent shown any love to it since launch.

With no progression in any direction, there is just a wall.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

If it is a vocal minority versus a silent majority - then what would you do?  Right now this looks like the situation that is going on. If a person got 1000 hours out of GW2 for the price - can you get the same amount out of Skyrim which was the same price?

Why is GW2 be compared to skyrim, and not WoW or EVE?

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

If it is a vocal minority versus a silent majority - then what would you do?  Right now this looks like the situation that is going on. If a person got 1000 hours out of GW2 for the price - can you get the same amount out of Skyrim which was the same price?

Why is GW2 be compared to skyrim, and not WoW or EVE?

Payment model.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

If it is a vocal minority versus a silent majority - then what would you do?  Right now this looks like the situation that is going on. If a person got 1000 hours out of GW2 for the price - can you get the same amount out of Skyrim which was the same price?

AS a matter of fact, I have 400+ hours into GW2 (about 15 cents per hour) and 700+ hours into Skyrim (about 8 cents per hour.) I am not quite sure of the point you are making, but I put more time (and found more enjoyment) playing Skyrim than GW2.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

If it is a vocal minority versus a silent majority - then what would you do?  Right now this looks like the situation that is going on. If a person got 1000 hours out of GW2 for the price - can you get the same amount out of Skyrim which was the same price?

I got more out of GW2 with about 800 hours to Skyrim's 80 hours.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

If it is a vocal minority versus a silent majority - then what would you do?  Right now this looks like the situation that is going on. If a person got 1000 hours out of GW2 for the price - can you get the same amount out of Skyrim which was the same price?

Why is GW2 be compared to skyrim, and not WoW or EVE?

Payment model.

damn you kuppa!

To me, gear progression doesn't keep me playing beyond end game.  It's just chasing a mirage in a desert.  I would like new features added to the game.  For example... 

Housing and furnishing, if done right could add a lot to the game.

A new feature, like boats, could add a new element of exploration.  Same with flying and/or mounts.

New lands.  The end game ones rignt now are kinda meh.  Add to the world, expanding on the three realms they already have, sea, land and air. 

New armor and clothes.  We need the artists to either put on their creative hats or get some fresh blood in there, someone who can give us something new and not rehashed.  Right now this is where I feel the most 'stale' in my gameplay.  I'd love to be able to mix and match and really customize my appearance a lot more. 

New professions.  I don't know, maybe fishing, maybe hunting.  Not only are you looking for these creatures, but you can create pets or trophies for sale if you want to add a crafting aspect. 

Collections.  From crafting, from gathering and hunting and everywhere and everything in the game.  Make it so the collections can be put together to make something or gives you a new title or you can display it in your house.  My OCD likes collections.

There's a lot of things that can be done, I just listed a few.  Gear grind is so themepark, so been there done that. 

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

If it is a vocal minority versus a silent majority - then what would you do?  Right now this looks like the situation that is going on. If a person got 1000 hours out of GW2 for the price - can you get the same amount out of Skyrim which was the same price?

Why is GW2 be compared to skyrim, and not WoW or EVE?

Simply because the others are sub games and Skyrim is B2P like GW2.

Originally posted by dariuszp

I don't understand you people. I see no reason in playing gear based MMO. Why ? Because there is no sense. Repeat same contaent over and over to get new pair underwear so you can do same thing somewhere else for the sake of new pair of underwear ?

WTF people ? This is why themeparks MMO never last. Guild Wars 2 maybe is not a sandbox MMO but sure it's fun to play while I can't stand games like TOR, WoW and other sh**.

I think they should go horizontal in progression. New pair of underwear that have not so different stats but unique look. Throw it around the world + more for hard challenges etc. Add "secret receipes" for crafters and stuff like that. It's like when I go to the shop. I don't want shirt that every single idiot have because it's "new trend". I want dam shirt that no one else have.

Makes sense don't it? I do agree that Anet is in a strange position on this one because they are going to piss off customers no matter which direction they go.  I agree with the poster above in his evaluation and understanding of the limitations of themeparks. Some people just seem to expect all MMO's to be a second life though so /shrug.

The big problem with Ascended and future gear tiers for me is they will become required for WvW. This can easily be fixed by changing WvW to use PvP gear like sPvP and tPvP do. Then no matter how many PvE raids and instances they add with additional gear tiers, it wouldn't affect WvW players. People who are interested in PvE gear progression could grind Fractals and their eventual replacements to their hearts' content or not as they choose.

WvW is pretty lackluster right now anyway. Once they started adding new gear progression, I completely lost interest in it and the game. So they need to undo that and make a number of other changes to make WvW more enjoyable to get me and many other players who got the game hoping it would be the next best thing to DAOC 2 to start playing again.

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

And how many MMO's stay the same as the day you purchased them? I payed the box price and got my value as it was. If I don't like the changes I don't buy expansions and I quit stopping by. Doesn't seem hard to me but there are those with self entitlement issues I suppose. Not saying you are one and all that but if the shoe fits........

Gear progression isn't everything. Most of the people I see complain have'nt even experienced a lot of the game. One of my favorite events is Tequatl and a lot of people I've come in contact with haven't even heard of it. Jumping puzzles are great too! I like exploring the world and finding these JPs and telling my guildmates/friends about them, then we all do them together, I laugh when they fall, I fall and get pissed, then look back and laugh, good times. 

WvW is fun, I never get bored much, we have good commanders on running things so it's fun to zerg around and roll over unsuspecting enemies. Though I can see why some people get bored, I still have a great time. 

Dungeons on the other hand are meh for me, They are great to run once or twice, but after that I get bored with them, being it the same thing (I know there are multiple paths, but even they are similar). It would be a nice turn if they had raids, like 10/25 man, maybe not like WoW where you push and push, and the raid leaders yell at you and kick you if you aren't doing well, but just fun and challenging, which mostly relies on the players playing it, but it could be a good thing so consider.

And back to gear, I think cosmetics are fine for now, but unless Anet is going to shove out good content with more to work for every 3 or 4 months, I see some people will start getting annoyed about the gear.

All just my opinion, thanks for reading if you did!

I like the idea of not having tier gear, but without it players find they have no goal to shoot for, since WvW fell through as having no meaningful reason to work hard at it. The only one I saw to work for was the legendary weapons, and after you get one, you feel like you just completed the game. The game needs some sort of carrot to convince players to progress in any direction, the game can only last so long at this casual pace, even casual gamers like to have a goal to shoot for.

I mean look at last halloween, that clocktower had a cosmetic reward and was for some very hard but they tried because it was there, I myself spend hours trying to complete it, and doing that was reward enough for me.

Give guilds a goal, add a giant mountain with bosses from top to bottom, give them different mechanics and let the guilds have a hell of a time getting to the top, the rewards dont have to be game breaking, even cosmetics or the fact the mountain is there would be all the reason a guild would need to tackle it for months on end.

GW's horizontal progression was skill collecting and build creating, secondary professions provided for a fantastic wealth in build diversity. GW2 offers a very limited skill set with no known future expansion for them. I can see how they've given themselves an easier time but they took away, from what a lot of people felt made the original title so great. Sure a ton of those builds might have been terrible but you had fun finding out :)

In GW1 the top tier gear, I'm talking looks here not stats (stats equaled out as soon as you hit max level of 20), had a ridiculous grind element to them. Part of me thinks they are looking at that and thinking that's how GW2 should work, hence the low drop rates of T6 items, etc and the ridiculous grind to get them, the problem though is without the ability to build on your character in other ways, the journey through that grind gets monotonous very quickly. If they are looking at the grind for FoW and UW armour and thinking that's OK in GW2, that's a mistake IMHO. Where's the other carrots?

Grinding for stats has been done to death, it's artificial progression, a never ending hamster wheel that was used to keep those subs rolling. Ascended gear is likely to be rolled out over months, adding pieces over time might help keep some of the stat chasers happy, they know it was a mistake to add them as they did, FOTM while being great fun shouldn't be the only way to get this gear, grinding dungeons is old hat, done to death, I expect better of Anet.

Appeasing horizontal progression players could include a number of things, Terranah's post has some great ideas, some of them I'd echo myself. I think the biggest thing they could do to appease the horizontal crowd and I'm sure what most GW1 players would love to see is an expanding of the skill system, give it some of the depth that made GW1 such a great game. As it stands it's not the shallowest of systems but it doesn't touch the flexibility of the original.

Originally posted by Terranah

To me, gear progression doesn't keep me playing beyond end game.  It's just chasing a mirage in a desert.  I would like new features added to the game.  For example... 

 

Housing and furnishing, if done right could add a lot to the game.

 

A new feature, like boats, could add a new element of exploration.  Same with flying and/or mounts.

 

New lands.  The end game ones rignt now are kinda meh.  Add to the world, expanding on the three realms they already have, sea, land and air. 

 

New armor and clothes.  We need the artists to either put on their creative hats or get some fresh blood in there, someone who can give us something new and not rehashed.  Right now this is where I feel the most 'stale' in my gameplay.  I'd love to be able to mix and match and really customize my appearance a lot more. 

 

New professions.  I don't know, maybe fishing, maybe hunting.  Not only are you looking for these creatures, but you can create pets or trophies for sale if you want to add a crafting aspect. 

 

Collections.  From crafting, from gathering and hunting and everywhere and everything in the game.  Make it so the collections can be put together to make something or gives you a new title or you can display it in your house.  My OCD likes collections.

 

There's a lot of things that can be done, I just listed a few.  Gear grind is so themepark, so been there done that. 

Completely agree. So many times I have left WoW, Rift and other games because at the end all I felt like I was doing was grinding the same dungeons over and over and over again until I could repeat the interactions in the dungeons word for word and knew every move the bosses made with my eyes closed.... All to get get another piece of gear???? UGH!! It became painful and I would leave until a new expansion pulled me in for a few more months or more.

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

What?  If people paid money for the game, then they have every right to complain if the it isnt going in the direction they want.

And how many MMO's stay the same as the day you purchased them? I payed the box price and got my value as it was. If I don't like the changes I don't buy expansions and I quit stopping by. Doesn't seem hard to me but there are those with self entitlement issues I suppose. Not saying you are one and all that but if the shoe fits........

So complaining about a service or product you're not happy with makes someone "self entitled"???  I hope you remember that the next tme your mechanic messes up your car or your waitress screws up your order.

Alternative "carrots", like skins, prestige items, titles, guild halls and advanced guild unlocks, etc... can work in place of a gear stat treadmill. The problem currently with Arenanet and GW2 is that they dropped the ball on the alternative rewards.

There have been no new skins since launch. Titles are sparse. Guild halls and other guild objectives worth working towards over the long term are missing. Also, Karma is a great alternative currency, but once you get your exotic stat gear, there is nothing worth buying with that karma you keep accumulating. Why no multi-tier, karma exclusive skins? Mini pets? Prestige items?

The concept of an MMO based on an alternative to the end game stat grind is a good one. Arenanet just needs to greatly increase the depth and bredth of alternative "end game" rewards for players and guilds to earn.