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General Gaming  » Nvidia's New 'Console'

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  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  1/07/13 11:01:55 PM#41


Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by BelegStrongbow Looks like they are competing with Razer     http://www.razerzone.com/projectfiona   http://www.razerzone.com/switchblade   EDIT:  This is the product you guys should really be talking about,  That nvidia thing looks like trash compared to the new Razer devices.  I went to CES 2012 and demoed them.  They are pretty wild.
Fiona is a different beast all together. The unique aspect of Nvidias "Console" is the streaming. As far as streaming "Consoles" go this is bottom of the barrel, over the next few months you will start getting news on the ones you need to be watching out for. Theres many more coming of varying quality. So will be an easy pass, others are a bit more ambitious. 
And how exactly do they propose to make a higher end "console" for streaming games over the Internet when the crippling factors are latency and bandwidth, neither of which depend on the console? I don't know how Project Shield will compare to what we'll see in the next several months, but in raw performance for rendering games locally, it's massively ahead of anything else on the market today.  And that's a big deal. Speaking of other things coming in the next several months, AMD has again confirmed that there will be Temash quad cores (contrary to rumors that it would be dual-core only), and now also that Temash is coming in the first half of this year.  Rumors say AMD will launch it at CeBIT in March.
I know, I know, you don't want to see streaming gaming take hold. Problem is, it's coming wether you want it to or not lol.    In any case higher end systems includes things like better build quality, larger screens, etc.    And as far as the Shield being the best on the market right now as far as raw performance and processing power)... lol it's going to be competing with things like the Fiona. Sure, fiona and others aren't available yet, but neither is Shield.  It's low end junk lol. It's neat, but it's more of a novelty thing you could give to your 6 year old.  Fiona's i7 > Shields Tegra 4 lol...  
Fiona is a PC tablet, not an Android tablet. It's going to cost a lot more. How much more? How much does an i7 gaming rig cost right now? Now scale all the hardware down into a tablet, and add a multi-touch screen. It only needs to be slightly better than 720p, but still, it's a multi-touch screen built into the device. That much more. It's two different markets. One is for the millions of people who bought a Nintendo handheld (Shield), and the other is for people who have more money than they really know what to do with (Fiona).  
That was in direct response to Quizzicals claim that it was going to offer more power and performance. It's not, not by a long shot. It's trying to do to many things at once and is failing to fully utilize any of it. 

With streaming the hardware Shield uses is redundant and makes it cost more than other devices meant to stream gaming in a similar fashion, if you want local performance you won't be grabbing a shield unless it's for your kid lol.  

The shield is going to be competing with the likes of Google and Ubitus that are going to stream your console games and MMO's straight to google TV's, no system required lol. It's going to be competing with hand held portable systems that stream with larger screens and better controls for less money. 

On the local side it's competing with actual devices meant to provide the content locally such as the fiona. 

 

The shield simply can't compete in price with the streaming systems and can't compete with the performance systems in power and performance. It's in limbo before it even left the gate.

 




Ubitus needs to actually work, and we need to know how much it's going to cost. Innovative cloud services aren't going to be free. The other thing is that Ubitus will require your television to work. Something like the Shield has the same advantage that the weird Wii U controller has - it doesn't require the television. Which I guess is the whole appeal of having a mobile gaming device. It's not taking up the television that everyone in the house wants to use. Plus, you can play games you already own. You don't have to rent them. You can continue that Fallout:New Vegas session from yesterday. I don't know how many people really want to do that...there may only be one person for all I know, but it is a difference in functionality. Plus, it can still stream stuff from Cloud services, if that kind of thing takes off.

The price is the key thing though. I don't see anyone buying a Shield for $300. I think even $250 is high, not because of the hardware but because of the market. But at $250 they could sell them, and if they convince some developers to make games that they sell through the Nvidia market (they have their own mobile market), they could probably get these things out the door. At $200 I think it's a no brainer.

Competing with Fiona is easy. Those things are going to cost a mint. They really will be for people with more money than they know what to do with. I'm sure they'll perform great, and they'll be a real tablet PC, but they are going to be expensive. If someone has the kind of money the Fiona is going to cost, they aren't going to bother looking at cheaper stuff anyway.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/07/13 11:07:32 PM#42
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by BelegStrongbow

Looks like they are competing with Razer  

 

http://www.razerzone.com/projectfiona

 

http://www.razerzone.com/switchblade

 

EDIT:  This is the product you guys should really be talking about,  That nvidia thing looks like trash compared to the new Razer devices.  I went to CES 2012 and demoed them.  They are pretty wild.

Fiona is a different beast all together. The unique aspect of Nvidias "Console" is the streaming. As far as streaming "Consoles" go this is bottom of the barrel, over the next few months you will start getting news on the ones you need to be watching out for. Theres many more coming of varying quality. So will be an easy pass, others are a bit more ambitious. 

And how exactly do they propose to make a higher end "console" for streaming games over the Internet when the crippling factors are latency and bandwidth, neither of which depend on the console?

I don't know how Project Shield will compare to what we'll see in the next several months, but in raw performance for rendering games locally, it's massively ahead of anything else on the market today.  And that's a big deal.

Speaking of other things coming in the next several months, AMD has again confirmed that there will be Temash quad cores (contrary to rumors that it would be dual-core only), and now also that Temash is coming in the first half of this year.  Rumors say AMD will launch it at CeBIT in March.

I know, I know, you don't want to see streaming gaming take hold. Problem is, it's coming wether you want it to or not lol. 

In any case higher end systems includes things like better build quality, larger screens, etc. 

 

And as far as the Shield being the best on the market right now as far as raw performance and processing power)... lol it's going to be competing with things like the Fiona. Sure, fiona and others aren't available yet, but neither is Shield. 

It's low end junk lol. It's neat, but it's more of a novelty thing you could give to your 6 year old. 

Fiona's i7 > Shields Tegra 4 lol...

I was thinking for some reason that Fiona was going to be a Tegra 3.  I'm not sure what I had in mind, but that's apparently wrong

Before you praise the performance of a Core i7 too much, stop to consider what Intel means by Core i7.  Not fastest processor, period.  Rather, either top end platform (Bloomfield, Gulftown, Sandy Bridge-E), which Fiona definitely won't get, or fastest in a given TDP.  Right now, you can get a Core i7-3517U, which is a 1.9 GHz dual core.  Fast for a 17 W chip, yes.  But fast in an absolute sense?  No.

Intel has announced that there will be 10 W Haswell chips, and it's highly probable that they'll make a Core i7 bin of 10 W Haswell chips.  Will that be faster than Tegra 4?  If you use the integrated graphics in it, it would probably win some things and lose others.

Fiona is reportedly going to have a discrete video card in it, too.  Of course, given that this is Razer that we're talking about, it might be something like a GeForce GT 620M that gets smoked by integrated graphics.  I'd personally bet on a GeForce card with a single Kepler SMX, which is what the new Grid K1 card uses.

But there's a heavy price to pay for too much performance in a tablet form factor.  How much heat will it put out under heavy loads?  30 W?  40 W?  How much will the tablet have to weigh to accommodate that?  Will it zap the battery in under an hour, or will they go with a huge battery that just adds that much more to the weight?

Oh, and let's not forget the reported $1500 price tag.

-----

If you want a gaming tablet that uses considerably more power than is reasonable in a tablet, then AMD's Kabini at 15 W will probably look awfully nice.  Not sure if anyone will make such a tablet.  Or should.  That's what Temash is for.

I only praise the performance of the Fiona because I've actually held and used one :) 

You really need to start getting out to the expo's and conventions. Theres a lot coming that really blows the old way of thinking out of the water. Theres a few tech bubbles poping this year and next in many different fields that are going to cause leaps in tech and the way we use it. Won't be the first time it's happened. These leaps are going to be a little intense though because they are happening in a number of fields. 

 

After these leaps thers going to be another in 2015/16 due to some advances in the way energy is delivered to portable devices. 

Right now there are devices that can send power to devices wirelessly. They've actually come a long way and are almost ready to be sold commercially. Right now it's still mainly in the hand of DIY enthusiasts, but companies are gearing up to mass produce. When that happens another tech bubble is going to pop and things are going to change fairly drastically again. 

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/07/13 11:18:03 PM#43
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by BelegStrongbow Looks like they are competing with Razer     http://www.razerzone.com/projectfiona   http://www.razerzone.com/switchblade   EDIT:  This is the product you guys should really be talking about,  That nvidia thing looks like trash compared to the new Razer devices.  I went to CES 2012 and demoed them.  They are pretty wild.
Fiona is a different beast all together. The unique aspect of Nvidias "Console" is the streaming. As far as streaming "Consoles" go this is bottom of the barrel, over the next few months you will start getting news on the ones you need to be watching out for. Theres many more coming of varying quality. So will be an easy pass, others are a bit more ambitious. 
And how exactly do they propose to make a higher end "console" for streaming games over the Internet when the crippling factors are latency and bandwidth, neither of which depend on the console? I don't know how Project Shield will compare to what we'll see in the next several months, but in raw performance for rendering games locally, it's massively ahead of anything else on the market today.  And that's a big deal. Speaking of other things coming in the next several months, AMD has again confirmed that there will be Temash quad cores (contrary to rumors that it would be dual-core only), and now also that Temash is coming in the first half of this year.  Rumors say AMD will launch it at CeBIT in March.
I know, I know, you don't want to see streaming gaming take hold. Problem is, it's coming wether you want it to or not lol.    In any case higher end systems includes things like better build quality, larger screens, etc.    And as far as the Shield being the best on the market right now as far as raw performance and processing power)... lol it's going to be competing with things like the Fiona. Sure, fiona and others aren't available yet, but neither is Shield.  It's low end junk lol. It's neat, but it's more of a novelty thing you could give to your 6 year old.  Fiona's i7 > Shields Tegra 4 lol...  
Fiona is a PC tablet, not an Android tablet. It's going to cost a lot more. How much more? How much does an i7 gaming rig cost right now? Now scale all the hardware down into a tablet, and add a multi-touch screen. It only needs to be slightly better than 720p, but still, it's a multi-touch screen built into the device. That much more. It's two different markets. One is for the millions of people who bought a Nintendo handheld (Shield), and the other is for people who have more money than they really know what to do with (Fiona).  
That was in direct response to Quizzicals claim that it was going to offer more power and performance. It's not, not by a long shot. It's trying to do to many things at once and is failing to fully utilize any of it. 

 

With streaming the hardware Shield uses is redundant and makes it cost more than other devices meant to stream gaming in a similar fashion, if you want local performance you won't be grabbing a shield unless it's for your kid lol.  

The shield is going to be competing with the likes of Google and Ubitus that are going to stream your console games and MMO's straight to google TV's, no system required lol. It's going to be competing with hand held portable systems that stream with larger screens and better controls for less money. 

On the local side it's competing with actual devices meant to provide the content locally such as the fiona. 

 

The shield simply can't compete in price with the streaming systems and can't compete with the performance systems in power and performance. It's in limbo before it even left the gate.

 




Ubitus needs to actually work, and we need to know how much it's going to cost. Innovative cloud services aren't going to be free. The other thing is that Ubitus will require your television to work. Something like the Shield has the same advantage that the weird Wii U controller has - it doesn't require the television. Which I guess is the whole appeal of having a mobile gaming device. It's not taking up the television that everyone in the house wants to use. Plus, you can play games you already own. You don't have to rent them. You can continue that Fallout:New Vegas session from yesterday. I don't know how many people really want to do that...there may only be one person for all I know, but it is a difference in functionality. Plus, it can still stream stuff from Cloud services, if that kind of thing takes off.

The price is the key thing though. I don't see anyone buying a Shield for $300. I think even $250 is high, not because of the hardware but because of the market. But at $250 they could sell them, and if they convince some developers to make games that they sell through the Nvidia market (they have their own mobile market), they could probably get these things out the door. At $200 I think it's a no brainer.

Competing with Fiona is easy. Those things are going to cost a mint. They really will be for people with more money than they know what to do with. I'm sure they'll perform great, and they'll be a real tablet PC, but they are going to be expensive. If someone has the kind of money the Fiona is going to cost, they aren't going to bother looking at cheaper stuff anyway.

 

Ubitus teaming up with google is far from the only streaming service being worked on. I mean right now, right this very moment you can stream to a tablet and play PC games and MMO's while using a 360 controller, Wii remote or PS3 controller or any number of different bluetooth controllers. You can use your phone as a controller for your tablet. There are cheap periphs that attach to your tablet and phones. Now exluding whats available now... numerous companies are pushing cloud gaming pretty hard and many of those are going to be announced this year with a few seeing launch late this year early next. 

The Streaming side of the shield unit has a massive uphill battle. It's got to compete with 150-200 tablets and other devices. Kainy actually works very well and it's a $2 dollar app. 

 

It's not just the companies and systems that will stream to TV's, it's also the hundreds of handheld systems out now and coming out that will stream as well. If you are on a budget these streaming devices will appeal far more than the shield unit because they simply offer more for less. 

If the performance is what interests you then again... shield isn't the choice. 

 

Where does the shield unit fit in?

 

Those on a budget have cheaper options

Those not on a budget and interested in performance have better options

 

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3670

1/07/13 11:26:14 PM#44

We aren't the only ones scratching our heads. The folks at Gamasutra are asking the same questions:
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/184393/Opinion_Nvidia_Shield_is_a_confused_mishmash_of_current_trends.php#.UOufHm-umKc

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13828

1/07/13 11:26:38 PM#45
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

That was in direct response to Quizzicals claim that it was going to offer more power and performance. It's not, not by a long shot. It's trying to do to many things at once and is failing to fully utilize any of it. 

With streaming the hardware Shield uses is redundant and makes it cost more than other devices meant to stream gaming in a similar fashion, if you want local performance you won't be grabbing a shield unless it's for your kid lol.  

The shield is going to be competing with the likes of Google and Ubitus that are going to stream your console games and MMO's straight to google TV's, no system required lol. It's going to be competing with hand held portable systems that stream with larger screens and better controls for less money. 

On the local side it's competing with actual devices meant to provide the content locally such as the fiona. 

The shield simply can't compete in price with the streaming systems and can't compete with the performance systems in power and performance. It's in limbo before it even left the gate.

If you think Shield is going to be expensive, wait until you see what a great big TV costs.

As I see it, Shield is primarily for rendering things locally, with streaming games a minor niche use of it.  Some people will get it primarily for streaming of course, but adding the streaming capability probably cost Nvidia basically nothing.

Sure, you can get higher end hardware for rendering games locally.  It's called a desktop.  The point of Shield is the small form factor.

  Quizzical

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1/07/13 11:30:50 PM#46
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

I only praise the performance of the Fiona because I've actually held and used one :) 

You really need to start getting out to the expo's and conventions. Theres a lot coming that really blows the old way of thinking out of the water. Theres a few tech bubbles poping this year and next in many different fields that are going to cause leaps in tech and the way we use it. Won't be the first time it's happened. These leaps are going to be a little intense though because they are happening in a number of fields. 

After these leaps thers going to be another in 2015/16 due to some advances in the way energy is delivered to portable devices. 

Right now there are devices that can send power to devices wirelessly. They've actually come a long way and are almost ready to be sold commercially. Right now it's still mainly in the hand of DIY enthusiasts, but companies are gearing up to mass produce. When that happens another tech bubble is going to pop and things are going to change fairly drastically again. 

"Works in a controlled environment for a demonstration with software carefully selected to be things that will run well" is a long way away from "works in customers' houses on the games that they want to play".

  GrayGhost79

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1/07/13 11:50:38 PM#47
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

That was in direct response to Quizzicals claim that it was going to offer more power and performance. It's not, not by a long shot. It's trying to do to many things at once and is failing to fully utilize any of it. 

With streaming the hardware Shield uses is redundant and makes it cost more than other devices meant to stream gaming in a similar fashion, if you want local performance you won't be grabbing a shield unless it's for your kid lol.  

The shield is going to be competing with the likes of Google and Ubitus that are going to stream your console games and MMO's straight to google TV's, no system required lol. It's going to be competing with hand held portable systems that stream with larger screens and better controls for less money. 

On the local side it's competing with actual devices meant to provide the content locally such as the fiona. 

The shield simply can't compete in price with the streaming systems and can't compete with the performance systems in power and performance. It's in limbo before it even left the gate.

If you think Shield is going to be expensive, wait until you see what a great big TV costs.

 

This is why I'm starting to have trouble debating with you. Statements like the one I left. You counter non of my points yet come back with a statement like that knowing full well people are going to be buying TVs anyways.

  GrayGhost79

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1/07/13 11:54:40 PM#48
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

I only praise the performance of the Fiona because I've actually held and used one :) 

You really need to start getting out to the expo's and conventions. Theres a lot coming that really blows the old way of thinking out of the water. Theres a few tech bubbles poping this year and next in many different fields that are going to cause leaps in tech and the way we use it. Won't be the first time it's happened. These leaps are going to be a little intense though because they are happening in a number of fields. 

After these leaps thers going to be another in 2015/16 due to some advances in the way energy is delivered to portable devices. 

Right now there are devices that can send power to devices wirelessly. They've actually come a long way and are almost ready to be sold commercially. Right now it's still mainly in the hand of DIY enthusiasts, but companies are gearing up to mass produce. When that happens another tech bubble is going to pop and things are going to change fairly drastically again. 

"Works in a controlled environment for a demonstration with software carefully selected to be things that will run well" is a long way away from "works in customers' houses on the games that they want to play".

First off the game I got to test was Skyrim. For me thats a fairly good test for a tablet gaming PC. If it can run Skyrim as well as it did and look as good as it did then guess what lol, I'm a happy camper :) 

In any case, you are correct. Maybe we can compare your Shield hands on experience with my Fiona hands on experience. This might help us understand where each is coming from in the discussion. 

  GrayGhost79

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1/08/13 12:08:09 AM#49

Alright time for some misconceptions to be cleared up. 

 

The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU. 

So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 

This things primary purpose is a touchscreen tablet that plays Android games off of the google play market lol!

 

It can stream to your TV, so thats something but.. it's streaming from your PC to your TV through the Shield unit. 

So it's best feature is that it will be like the Steam Box thats coming in the not to distant future, just not as good lol. 

 

  Quizzical

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1/08/13 12:38:21 AM#50
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

I only praise the performance of the Fiona because I've actually held and used one :) 

You really need to start getting out to the expo's and conventions. Theres a lot coming that really blows the old way of thinking out of the water. Theres a few tech bubbles poping this year and next in many different fields that are going to cause leaps in tech and the way we use it. Won't be the first time it's happened. These leaps are going to be a little intense though because they are happening in a number of fields. 

After these leaps thers going to be another in 2015/16 due to some advances in the way energy is delivered to portable devices. 

Right now there are devices that can send power to devices wirelessly. They've actually come a long way and are almost ready to be sold commercially. Right now it's still mainly in the hand of DIY enthusiasts, but companies are gearing up to mass produce. When that happens another tech bubble is going to pop and things are going to change fairly drastically again. 

"Works in a controlled environment for a demonstration with software carefully selected to be things that will run well" is a long way away from "works in customers' houses on the games that they want to play".

First off the game I got to test was Skyrim. For me thats a fairly good test for a tablet gaming PC. If it can run Skyrim as well as it did and look as good as it did then guess what lol, I'm a happy camper :) 

In any case, you are correct. Maybe we can compare your Shield hands on experience with my Fiona hands on experience. This might help us understand where each is coming from in the discussion. 

Two questions:

1)  Was it rendering locally on the Fiona device, or was it rendering on some other device and streaming to the Fiona?

2)  If it was streaming, then how far away was the device that was responsible for rendering the game?

  Quizzical

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1/08/13 12:41:28 AM#51
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU. 

So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 

If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.

  User Deleted
1/08/13 12:45:18 AM#52
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU. 

So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 

If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.

It doesn't matter, because how many people out there would want to stream PC games to a 5" handheld device when they can just get on the PC and play them.  It's streaming them, meaning the PC is going to be in use regardless, so the feature seems a bit limited.  More like a bullet point to check off the back of the box.

  lizardbones

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OP  1/08/13 3:18:35 PM#53


Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Ubitus teaming up with google is far from the only streaming service being worked on. I mean right now, right this very moment you can stream to a tablet and play PC games and MMO's while using a 360 controller, Wii remote or PS3 controller or any number of different bluetooth controllers. You can use your phone as a controller for your tablet. There are cheap periphs that attach to your tablet and phones. Now exluding whats available now... numerous companies are pushing cloud gaming pretty hard and many of those are going to be announced this year with a few seeing launch late this year early next. 

The Streaming side of the shield unit has a massive uphill battle. It's got to compete with 150-200 tablets and other devices. Kainy actually works very well and it's a $2 dollar app. 

It's not just the companies and systems that will stream to TV's, it's also the hundreds of handheld systems out now and coming out that will stream as well. If you are on a budget these streaming devices will appeal far more than the shield unit because they simply offer more for less. 

If the performance is what interests you then again... shield isn't the choice. 

 

Where does the shield unit fit in?

 

Those on a budget have cheaper options

Those not on a budget and interested in performance have better options

 




The Shield is a mobile gaming rig, like the Nintendo 3DS or the Sony PSP or Vita. It will have a market, provided by Nvidia for Shield specific games. It will also be able to run pretty much any game off of the Google market. It will have the fastest mobile processor available in any Android device. In that market, portable gaming rig and Android gaming device, $200 to $300 is a reasonable price tag.

To answer the question of how it would compete with the Fiona, it will hopefully cost $700 to $1000 less than the Fiona. Unless Nvidia goes insane with pricing and they try to sell their device for more than $300. In which case, I don't think they'll sell many of them at all and they will have wasted a lot of time.

As to how it would compete with other Android devices, it has what is currently the fastest Android processor available with the most advanced graphics, and it has everything you need built into the device. Cheaper devices will be slower, or they'll be Android PCs that do not include a screen or any sort of input device, much less a game controller. Again, if they are selling for $300 or less. If they go higher than $300, I don't think the Shield has any real advantage.

Many of the questions you're asking could be asked about the Nintendo handhelds that have sold so well over the years. Why would anyone buy them? Because there are people who want handheld gaming devices. They don't want tablets, they don't want phones, they want something to play games on. That's what the Shield is. If it's priced in the right range, it'll sell well. If not, it won't.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  lizardbones

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OP  1/08/13 3:40:15 PM#54


Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.



They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  hfztt

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1/08/13 3:45:16 PM#55
Mobile gaming is vastly overrated....
  BadSpock

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Logic be damned!

1/08/13 3:47:07 PM#56

I've been a hard/mid-core gamer for 20+ years - and this?

What a waste of time and money.

Gaming is for the home - not mobile.

Put the phone / tablet /portable down, look people in the eye and connect with them.

Look out the window.

Christ... it's like people WANT to be plugged in 24/7.

 

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Quizzical

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1/08/13 3:50:53 PM#57
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.


They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.

 

Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.

I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.

  lizardbones

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I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  1/08/13 4:02:26 PM#58


Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.
They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.  
Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.

I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.




Why do developers agree to make exclusive games for any particular console? I have no idea, I just know that they do it. It doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort to build and maintain a store for your device if you didn't have some exclusive content to draw people in. In addition to content that would be available on the Google store of course.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  maskedweasel

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1/08/13 4:20:42 PM#59
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.
They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.  
Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.

 

I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.




Why do developers agree to make exclusive games for any particular console? I have no idea, I just know that they do it. It doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort to build and maintain a store for your device if you didn't have some exclusive content to draw people in. In addition to content that would be available on the Google store of course.

 

Honestly this could be a middle of the road situation -- as we saw with older android devices regarding hardware performance.  For example, even to this day, most unoptimized visually intensive programs run poorly on older and cheaper/less capable android devices.

Android devices aren't like the new Windows Phones,  where Microsoft requires certain hardware specifications.  Originally Android handsets were built around an entirely different button scheme altogether, which has been removed and simplified on many of the newer devices.

 

Point being, theres a big different here between hardware - and in the event this "console" or - moreover, the hardware stays shield exclusive, and other developers don't take into account optimization for older devices, you'll have situations where there may be games that ONLY run on Nvidia Shield.   You already see games like that on the market today.

Personally I feel like that is the opposite intention for the mobile gaming movement... its always been about accessibility..   which is what the App markets are about.   I seriously doubt anyone would cater to a single device and fragment development, cutting themselves off from the majority of the base.

 

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  Quizzical

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1/08/13 4:37:15 PM#60
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.
They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.  
Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.

 

I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.




Why do developers agree to make exclusive games for any particular console? I have no idea, I just know that they do it. It doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort to build and maintain a store for your device if you didn't have some exclusive content to draw people in. In addition to content that would be available on the Google store of course.

 

If you make your own console, it's obvious why you'd make console-exclusive games for your own console.  But you know that, and the real question is why anyone else would make games exclusive to one particular console.

If you're worried about piracy, you don't port the game from console to PC.  If you make extensive use of capabilities that one console has and another does not, then you can't really port it to the console that doesn't have those capabilities.  That means a lot of games basically couldn't be ported to Wii.

As for Xbox 360 versus PS3, they're roughly comparable at a macro level, but the internal architectures are very different, and if you have a complete game ready to go for one of the consoles, it's actually a lot of work to port it to the other.  They use very different CPU architectures that require very different CPU threading models.  They use very different GPUs.  They use different graphics APIs, though if you're trying to get lower level access to the GPU hardware than an API would give you, just using very different GPUs a huge problem even ignoring the APIs.

Nvidia Shield doesn't have that kind of radical dfiferences from everything else on the market.  OpenGL is an industry standard, already supported by both AMD and Nvidia in their Radeon, GeForce, FirePro, and Tesla cards.  Older versions of it are also supported by Intel.  ARM cores are ubiquitous in the mobile space, and everyone and his neighbor's dog will soon be using exactly the same ARM Cortex A15 cores that the Tegra 4 is.

Unless you're coding your game with the close to metal access to the Tegra 4 GPU and ignoring APIs, porting it to other devices will probably be pretty easy to do.  And even if you are doing that, there will probably soon be a bunch of other devices that use exactly the same Tegra 4 chip, so if your game runs on Nvidia Shield, then it will run just as well on a next generation Asus Transformer tablet or whatever.  Shield runs Android, an open platform, so it doesn't have strong anti-piracy controls that you'd lose by porting it elsewhere.

You might well see games that can run on Nvidia Shield but not most other Android devices, for lack of API compliance or hardware performance.  But it won't be Nvidia Shield-exclusive forever, as there will soon be plenty of other chips that have the performance to run it.  Remember that Nvidia is primarily in the business of designing and selling chips, so their real goal is to get a bunch of other companies to buy Tegra 4 chips and integrate them into everything.  In order to do that, they're going to go out of their way to make sure that anything that runs on Nvidia Shield also runs on any other device using a Tegra 4 chip.

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