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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » A user's view of foundry

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34 posts found
  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/06/13 3:39:16 PM#1

I have been pretty much following the game for more than 2 years now and have checked out everything about foundry. One thing surprizing me is - how much potential of foundry has been underplayed. So I thought I will put examples of what foundry can do at its full potential (or basically what you can already do with STO foundry):-

 

Myth: With foundry you can only create linear missions.

Not true. It is very much possible to create sub-quests. You can even create a mission in which only objective is to go and open the reward chest. However it may have 20-30 subquests like - solving a puzzle, kill a monster boss, not kill a monster but sneak past it, rescue a princess jumping from platforms like MARIO and survive traps along the way(and even throw in a Bowser perhaps), many more kind of sub-quests which my limited imagination can't fanthom right now. etc. etc.

 

Myth: You cannot model a map.

Not true. While mesh-editing is not possible, that is not the only way to design a map. Think of Legos. That is how you can create your own unique world using prefabs - placing it as you want. Infact, you can create beautiful maps just by using models - hills, oceans etc.

 

What else you can do:-

Make a Sephiroth like encounter in which a final boss changes forms as you fight him - first form, second form then final form.

Make a courtroom drama in which you find evidences and argue in depth.

Make an open map, like a big map where you go around finding stuff to do and when you get bored, just open the chesta nd leave.

Secret areas which can only be accessed on conditions (I don't know for sure for lack on info on cryptic's side, but I think skills like theivery and dungeoneering can also be used as a trigger).

Optional branch for actions - e.g. a door is locked and you decide either to use brains to solve puzzle and open the door, or you use brute strength to crush it. If you use brutal force, it wakes up sleeping enemies who attack you. Solving puzzle, you can pass without fighting them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, all of the above can be done by STO foundry. They say NW foundry will be an updated version. So I believe it can do much more. But I don't understand why the potential of foundry is underplayed that much. Perhaps they don't want to scare the new users from trying it and want to concentrate on showing what things foundry can do easily.

But for good authors, challange in foundry is important. They should be showing the greatest potential by using "advanced meathods" instead of showing simple things which you can do after watching "before beginners" STO foundry video.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sources:- STO foundry videos and foundry videos shown by cryptic.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/06/13 3:43:05 PM#2

Oh! One thing I forgot to add. Although you can create sub-quests - you cannot (based on STO mechanics) assign loot for that particular sub-quest.

I have heard that if you submit your map to be featured, and if it is selected as a good map, cryptic's devs can add loot for sub-quests but in user's foundry - you only have end reward chest.

 

However, based on STO foundry, you can put a wall in front of chest which only dissappears if you do a particular sub-quest - but that will just end up making the sub-quest part of the main quest (to open the path).

  skamper

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/05
Posts: 253

1/07/13 12:17:51 PM#3
From what I have seen, we can't script bosses. No scripting AI = no dice for me.
  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2973

1/13/13 5:32:15 PM#4

I'm not really sure why you are constantly refering to, and basing this whole post on, your experience with the STO foundry.

They are not the same thing. NW's foundry is the next stage in the foundry's evolution. From what I've seen it already has many features that the STO one doesn't have.

Everything you are saying is definately correct. But people shouldn't use STO's foundry as a way of getting information about NW's, they will not be the same.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/14/13 6:47:23 PM#5

NW foundry is an upgrade of STO foundry. So unless it breaks the lore (D&D mechanics like beam up, mobile phones etc.), the mechanics of STO foundry will be there.

 

So it is kind of least common denominator for NW foundry. We will have more, but first lets look what we have at least - and even the least is a lot! :)

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/14/13 6:51:12 PM#6
Originally posted by skamper
From what I have seen, we can't script bosses. No scripting AI = no dice for me.

Scripting bosses? You mean you talk first then boss fights, or beat them to subission? Or that they run to particular area and do range atatck from there?

Although I personally don't think it has a lot of utility, as it is not a design element but DM element which is not something foundry should concentrate on, don't rule it out just yet.

Foundry is more like what someone writes in a campaign to be run by DMs later. The writer of campaign would not know what the party is capable of, he/she writes and designs camaign for all kinds of parties.

  Ezhae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 734

1/15/13 7:53:21 AM#7
Originally posted by gillrmn
Originally posted by skamper
From what I have seen, we can't script bosses. No scripting AI = no dice for me.

Scripting bosses? You mean you talk first then boss fights, or beat them to subission? Or that they run to particular area and do range atatck from there?

Although I personally don't think it has a lot of utility, as it is not a design element but DM element which is not something foundry should concentrate on, don't rule it out just yet.

Foundry is more like what someone writes in a campaign to be run by DMs later. The writer of campaign would not know what the party is capable of, he/she writes and designs camaign for all kinds of parties.

I believe he means actually changes to combat AI of the encounter. Like conditions/reaction to certain player behaviour, special mechanics, etc. to make the encounters more challenging than tank and spank. 

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2623

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/15/13 3:31:33 PM#8

Gill quick question:

 

Is it possible to build a detailed Labyrinth or immersive type of dungeon with multiple paths and multiple bosses?  If so is there still only 1 end chest?  Do the bosses drop higher quality loot? 

 

Basically I want to create a very lengthy dungeon with multiple bosses in tradition of a universal MMO dungeon romp.  Hopefully each specific boss drops higher quality loot.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Zooce

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 588

1/15/13 3:45:10 PM#9

Sounds very interesting, this user-generated foundry content would be the main draw for me.  I'd like to know more when it's available, and see some complex examples.

 

When using an acronym, it helps the reader if you define it initially.  "...Star Trek Online (STO)..."

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/15/13 3:50:37 PM#10
Originally posted by azzamasin

Gill quick question:

 

Is it possible to build a detailed Labyrinth or immersive type of dungeon with multiple paths and multiple bosses?  If so is there still only 1 end chest?  Do the bosses drop higher quality loot? 

 

Basically I want to create a very lengthy dungeon with multiple bosses in tradition of a universal MMO dungeon romp.  Hopefully each specific boss drops higher quality loot.

yes.

I wanted to type a long answer with explaination, but am in kind of short on time. But basically yes. Loot depends on average time of the dungeons (everyone usually takes to complete) - you can have sub-quest secret paths and all that. But only one chest in the end - to avoid exploiting and stuff.

 

Regarding size, there is generally a limitation placed on map, and number of room in one map, but you can connect more maps with a door (which loads next map, but you cant then come back t o previous map).

 

The limits have not been made public, but they are usually very large. They are there so someone doesn't makes a large mission to crash someone's game. As a resource contraint to users.

 

EDIT:

Rooms --> MAPS ---> QUEST --> Campaign

 

A map have many rooms connected freely (decided by size of each room)

A quest has many maps, connected in series which you can't go back to

A campaign has many quests (in series, in which you can't go back)

 

Every quest has 1 end reward chest.

 

EDIT:

I ended up explaining a lot. Anyways, for exact explaination of logic, give me a specific example and I will see if I can help.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/15/13 3:54:46 PM#11
Originally posted by Ezhae
Originally posted by gillrmn
Originally posted by skamper
From what I have seen, we can't script bosses. No scripting AI = no dice for me.

Scripting bosses? You mean you talk first then boss fights, or beat them to subission? Or that they run to particular area and do range atatck from there?

Although I personally don't think it has a lot of utility, as it is not a design element but DM element which is not something foundry should concentrate on, don't rule it out just yet.

Foundry is more like what someone writes in a campaign to be run by DMs later. The writer of campaign would not know what the party is capable of, he/she writes and designs camaign for all kinds of parties.

I believe he means actually changes to combat AI of the encounter. Like conditions/reaction to certain player behaviour, special mechanics, etc. to make the encounters more challenging than tank and spank. 

May be possible, but no public info on that. Lets wait and watch. Those dev guys are quite brainy, so if they actually think it is an important element (or if you convince them somehow), they will find a way to put it in.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/15/13 3:57:16 PM#12
Originally posted by Zooce

Sounds very interesting, this user-generated foundry content would be the main draw for me.  I'd like to know more when it's available, and see some complex examples.

 

When using an acronym, it helps the reader if you define it initially.  "...Star Trek Online (STO)..."

I have designed a very very complex idea already. When foundry opens, check it out.

 

For now, you can use a flowchart program like yEd by yWorks or other such flowchart program (MS-Office had one, forgot the name) to design them.

  MadDemon64

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1064

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

1/15/13 8:45:36 PM#13
Originally posted by gillrmn

I have been pretty much following the game for more than 2 years now and have checked out everything about foundry. One thing surprizing me is - how much potential of foundry has been underplayed. So I thought I will put examples of what foundry can do at its full potential (or basically what you can already do with STO foundry):-

 

Myth: With foundry you can only create linear missions.

Not true. It is very much possible to create sub-quests. You can even create a mission in which only objective is to go and open the reward chest. However it may have 20-30 subquests like - solving a puzzle, kill a monster boss, not kill a monster but sneak past it, rescue a princess jumping from platforms like MARIO and survive traps along the way(and even throw in a Bowser perhaps), many more kind of sub-quests which my limited imagination can't fanthom right now. etc. etc.

 

Myth: You cannot model a map.

Not true. While mesh-editing is not possible, that is not the only way to design a map. Think of Legos. That is how you can create your own unique world using prefabs - placing it as you want. Infact, you can create beautiful maps just by using models - hills, oceans etc.

 

What else you can do:-

Make a Sephiroth like encounter in which a final boss changes forms as you fight him - first form, second form then final form.

Make a courtroom drama in which you find evidences and argue in depth.

Make an open map, like a big map where you go around finding stuff to do and when you get bored, just open the chesta nd leave.

Secret areas which can only be accessed on conditions (I don't know for sure for lack on info on cryptic's side, but I think skills like theivery and dungeoneering can also be used as a trigger).

Optional branch for actions - e.g. a door is locked and you decide either to use brains to solve puzzle and open the door, or you use brute strength to crush it. If you use brutal force, it wakes up sleeping enemies who attack you. Solving puzzle, you can pass without fighting them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, all of the above can be done by STO foundry. They say NW foundry will be an updated version. So I believe it can do much more. But I don't understand why the potential of foundry is underplayed that much. Perhaps they don't want to scare the new users from trying it and want to concentrate on showing what things foundry can do easily.

But for good authors, challange in foundry is important. They should be showing the greatest potential by using "advanced meathods" instead of showing simple things which you can do after watching "before beginners" STO foundry video.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sources:- STO foundry videos and foundry videos shown by cryptic.

Sounds like a lot of fun.  DnD dungeon masters are likely going to get a hell of a kick out of using this.  But please answer this question soon.

There are a lot, and I mean A LOT of Cryptic haters on these forums, and they are always spewing "lockbox" this and "can't do that without the cash shop" that.  So please, put everyones' minds at ease: is there any word on how much you will have to buy in the cash shop (if any) to use the foundry to make what you want, and if so what are these limitations?

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2623

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/15/13 9:17:49 PM#14
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by gillrmn

I have been pretty much following the game for more than 2 years now and have checked out everything about foundry. One thing surprizing me is - how much potential of foundry has been underplayed. So I thought I will put examples of what foundry can do at its full potential (or basically what you can already do with STO foundry):-

 

Myth: With foundry you can only create linear missions.

Not true. It is very much possible to create sub-quests. You can even create a mission in which only objective is to go and open the reward chest. However it may have 20-30 subquests like - solving a puzzle, kill a monster boss, not kill a monster but sneak past it, rescue a princess jumping from platforms like MARIO and survive traps along the way(and even throw in a Bowser perhaps), many more kind of sub-quests which my limited imagination can't fanthom right now. etc. etc.

 

Myth: You cannot model a map.

Not true. While mesh-editing is not possible, that is not the only way to design a map. Think of Legos. That is how you can create your own unique world using prefabs - placing it as you want. Infact, you can create beautiful maps just by using models - hills, oceans etc.

 

What else you can do:-

Make a Sephiroth like encounter in which a final boss changes forms as you fight him - first form, second form then final form.

Make a courtroom drama in which you find evidences and argue in depth.

Make an open map, like a big map where you go around finding stuff to do and when you get bored, just open the chesta nd leave.

Secret areas which can only be accessed on conditions (I don't know for sure for lack on info on cryptic's side, but I think skills like theivery and dungeoneering can also be used as a trigger).

Optional branch for actions - e.g. a door is locked and you decide either to use brains to solve puzzle and open the door, or you use brute strength to crush it. If you use brutal force, it wakes up sleeping enemies who attack you. Solving puzzle, you can pass without fighting them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, all of the above can be done by STO foundry. They say NW foundry will be an updated version. So I believe it can do much more. But I don't understand why the potential of foundry is underplayed that much. Perhaps they don't want to scare the new users from trying it and want to concentrate on showing what things foundry can do easily.

But for good authors, challange in foundry is important. They should be showing the greatest potential by using "advanced meathods" instead of showing simple things which you can do after watching "before beginners" STO foundry video.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sources:- STO foundry videos and foundry videos shown by cryptic.

Sounds like a lot of fun.  DnD dungeon masters are likely going to get a hell of a kick out of using this.  But please answer this question soon.

There are a lot, and I mean A LOT of Cryptic haters on these forums, and they are always spewing "lockbox" this and "can't do that without the cash shop" that.  So please, put everyones' minds at ease: is there any word on how much you will have to buy in the cash shop (if any) to use the foundry to make what you want, and if so what are these limitations?

They stated the only thing that will be sold is cosmetic and quality of life items (like XP boosts) but no Pay to Win items.  While I do not know if there will be lockboxxes, its not really a bad thing.  It's up to the user to determine if they want to gamble.  I assume it will be like GW2's Black Lion Chests which is absolutely assaine for anyone to buy as it contains nothing of value.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/16/13 5:58:12 AM#15
Originally posted by MadDemon64
...

Sounds like a lot of fun.  DnD dungeon masters are likely going to get a hell of a kick out of using this.  But please answer this question soon.

There are a lot, and I mean A LOT of Cryptic haters on these forums, and they are always spewing "lockbox" this and "can't do that without the cash shop" that.  So please, put everyones' minds at ease: is there any word on how much you will have to buy in the cash shop (if any) to use the foundry to make what you want, and if so what are these limitations?

I am also justa   user and have no idea about it, but there was quite a debate on forums some time back. Devs were actively seeking opinions on lockboxes.

However I think lockboxes is a thing at publisher's end and thus PWE should have to power to allow or disallow it, not cryptic. But it is something no one knows for sure - if they will be there or not.

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

1/16/13 7:01:42 AM#16

What is keeping them from expanding foundry?

Simple.

It's the fucktards who would do everything they can to exploit the system, to get quick loot and exp to max their character with no effort and then come to the forums complaining that XXX game has too little content.

 

 

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/23/13 4:46:12 AM#17
Originally posted by tom_gore

What is keeping them from expanding foundry?

Simple.

It's the ******** who would do everything they can to exploit the system, to get quick loot and exp to max their character with no effort and then come to the forums complaining that XXX game has too little content.

 

 

Actually that is very true. Most of the measures at STO are directed at exploiters exploiting foundry missions for easy kills, bypass "do foundry for X time daily and get reward" etc.

Sad part is that their missions are more popular with more stars than the 'real' foundry missions.

Good thing is, cryptic is constantly fighting the exploitation and is somehow able to hold the line while still improving foundry bit by bit.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

 
OP  1/23/13 4:51:05 AM#18

New info on foundry from one of the devs:-

 

Q:- Do light sources in Neverwinter actually cast light? So if I wanted to do the standard issue "dark room" type dungeon with only very few strategically placed lights will players be able to utilize torches or similar "mobile" light sources to light their path?

Even more importantly is it possible to make a pitch black dungeon or can players still expect to see without lights when it's "dark".

Dev:- If you're speaking in technical terms, we have 2 types of lights in Neverwinter. There are vertex lights, which are static and baked into the environment, save for some specular effects you get when a character walks by. Then there are dynamic lights which are calculated every frame, cast shadows, and can be switched on or off or moved.

In the Foundry you can create rooms with no lights in them, so you can make a very dark and difficult to navigate environment. You could then use triggers to turn lights on and off.

There is one caveat in that we put a very faint light on the player character at all times, so you can never get the area immediately around the player character to be 100% black.

Even so, you can make the kind of content you're describing in the Foundry

-Will we be able to make UGC, interim previews/scenes insert regarding the quest's reward by the Foundry in short timelines? (Something like that in the midway of the quest your pander blaze a trail in a dungeon in a video and then enemies trap you!)
1.-And it won't be a sound-recorded preview, just submitted set speech or eligible written speech.
2. These videos will be prepared via foundry but not pre-recorded!


A cutscene editor would be amazing in the Foundry! I think it will happen some day, but not for launch.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~

The dev is crypticmapolis. Pray that he is not caught spying for us! :p

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1951

1/23/13 5:01:53 AM#19
Originally posted by gillrmn
Originally posted by tom_gore

What is keeping them from expanding foundry?

Simple.

It's the ******** who would do everything they can to exploit the system, to get quick loot and exp to max their character with no effort and then come to the forums complaining that XXX game has too little content.

 

 

Actually that is very true. Most of the measures at STO are directed at exploiters exploiting foundry missions for easy kills, bypass "do foundry for X time daily and get reward" etc.

Sad part is that their missions are more popular with more stars than the 'real' foundry missions.

Good thing is, cryptic is constantly fighting the exploitation and is somehow able to hold the line while still improving foundry bit by bit.

+1, Cryptic done a pretty decent work to keep the Foundry clean of CoH Architect-type quick loot and quick xp exploit. Beside those quick missions which "exploited" Investigate Officer report (not really an exploit, rather a shortcut for getting the 1 piece of daily loot quicker - and the option is already closed by Cryptic) I haven't seen any exploiting / farming mission in the Foundry. So there's no "go in, 10 minutes, huge xp and a nice loot, repeat that for hours, profit" way in Foundry which pretty much ruined CoH's Architect. I trust in Cryptic that they will keep Neverwinter's Foundry clean as well.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2527

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/23/13 5:07:21 AM#20
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by gillrmn

I have been pretty much following the game for more than 2 years now and have checked out everything about foundry. One thing surprizing me is - how much potential of foundry has been underplayed. So I thought I will put examples of what foundry can do at its full potential (or basically what you can already do with STO foundry):-

 

Myth: With foundry you can only create linear missions.

Not true. It is very much possible to create sub-quests. You can even create a mission in which only objective is to go and open the reward chest. However it may have 20-30 subquests like - solving a puzzle, kill a monster boss, not kill a monster but sneak past it, rescue a princess jumping from platforms like MARIO and survive traps along the way(and even throw in a Bowser perhaps), many more kind of sub-quests which my limited imagination can't fanthom right now. etc. etc.

 

Myth: You cannot model a map.

Not true. While mesh-editing is not possible, that is not the only way to design a map. Think of Legos. That is how you can create your own unique world using prefabs - placing it as you want. Infact, you can create beautiful maps just by using models - hills, oceans etc.

 

What else you can do:-

Make a Sephiroth like encounter in which a final boss changes forms as you fight him - first form, second form then final form.

Make a courtroom drama in which you find evidences and argue in depth.

Make an open map, like a big map where you go around finding stuff to do and when you get bored, just open the chesta nd leave.

Secret areas which can only be accessed on conditions (I don't know for sure for lack on info on cryptic's side, but I think skills like theivery and dungeoneering can also be used as a trigger).

Optional branch for actions - e.g. a door is locked and you decide either to use brains to solve puzzle and open the door, or you use brute strength to crush it. If you use brutal force, it wakes up sleeping enemies who attack you. Solving puzzle, you can pass without fighting them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, all of the above can be done by STO foundry. They say NW foundry will be an updated version. So I believe it can do much more. But I don't understand why the potential of foundry is underplayed that much. Perhaps they don't want to scare the new users from trying it and want to concentrate on showing what things foundry can do easily.

But for good authors, challange in foundry is important. They should be showing the greatest potential by using "advanced meathods" instead of showing simple things which you can do after watching "before beginners" STO foundry video.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sources:- STO foundry videos and foundry videos shown by cryptic.

Sounds like a lot of fun.  DnD dungeon masters are likely going to get a hell of a kick out of using this.  But please answer this question soon.

There are a lot, and I mean A LOT of Cryptic haters on these forums, and they are always spewing "lockbox" this and "can't do that without the cash shop" that.  So please, put everyones' minds at ease: is there any word on how much you will have to buy in the cash shop (if any) to use the foundry to make what you want, and if so what are these limitations?

 They already stated that foundry items will not be cash shop items.  Completely free.

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