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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Anet throws out perma bans for wintersday exploit

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113 posts found
  dlld

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/08
Posts: 516

1/03/13 7:58:52 AM#41

My personal stance is that nothing you do within the game with game mechanics provided by the developers should ever warrant permanent restriction to something you paid for.

  Traugar

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 168

1/03/13 8:05:05 AM#42
Originally posted by tawess

so why did they exploitto begon with

 

Or did they think this was some super secret gift from super secret santa

 

As for rednecksith who said "That's like having a cop or lawyer tell you something isn't illegal, then getting arrested for it anyway." You do know that this is how the real world works right. Ignorance of the law does not equal a automatic get out of jail free card.

 

But greed tend to make people careless.

To continue on the analogy.  If you can prove the cop gave you the go ahead then good luck finding a jury that will convict, or hell even a DA that will prosecute.  Even then your bordering on/crossing over into entrapment territory.  

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

1/03/13 8:12:42 AM#43
Originally posted by spizz
Originally posted by QSatu
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Anet announced their stance on this early on.

If people choose to ignore it, it is their problem.

 

qft. It's always amusing how greed makes people so stupid.

Thats why f2p concepts with ingame shops work, they aim for the greed.

AHH - it doesn't matter - people are just plain greedy and it doesn't matter the game's business model. You are using a red herring argument. You see this in sub, F2P, and B2P games (which GW2 is).

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1440

1/03/13 8:16:18 AM#44

Geez, they won't even talk about what is considered an exploit when it comes to making profit so that people won't be frightened. This person got their thread locked when all they did was ask and got told, it's not up for discussion. Oh it's up for discussion, they just are choosing to send it to outside forums.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/What-is-considered-exploiting

lol we won't tell you what you are doing wrong, just beware

 

 

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2589

1/03/13 8:26:55 AM#45

Snowflake recipe:

Input: 1 ecto + 1 snowflake + 12 mithril ore 

Output: 1 or 3 ectos + 1 snowflake + 1 or 3 mithril ore.

 

 

Armor recipes:

Imput: 15 T5 mats + 3 Bolts of silk + 1 cured leather thick hide + 11 silk string

Outpu: 0 to 3 ectos + 1 to 3 silk scraps.

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/john-smith-on-the-state-of-the-guild-wars-2-economy/  from 14 of september

"Exploits

For those less familiar with this topic, exploits are errors in the game or third party programs that create opportunities for players to move outside the conventional means of gaining value (gold, experience, skills, etc.). The Guild Wars 2 economy (and virtually every other economy in the same vein) is not designed to have any loop that involves creating value for no cost.

For example, a player discovers a recipe that allows them to craft items from vendor goods for only 50 copper and then sell back the crafted item for 100 copper. The player now has an infinite loop of value gain. If this were working as intended the game’s currency would hyper-inflate very, very quickly as all players swarmed to this recipe to generate gold.

Exploits are a really interesting topic because they are, in the end, dangerous and self-defeating. The game has gotten to a point in size where there is no such thing as a single player discovering an exploit. Exploits come in waves of mass participation and in the end, if they aren’t dealt with, the economy becomes hyper-inflated. After mass exploitation, your wealth is only relative to how good you were at exploiting, rather than your success in the game. This damages the integrity of the game and makes it unfriendly to new and honest players. There have been cases where exploits have severely damaged and arguably killed a game.

Exploits are mostly generated by a mistake on our end and are really hard on players. When an exploit is discovered, players are tempted to participate by the draw of becoming wealthy and out of fear of being left behind the massively wealthy players who do participate. We take a harsh stance on exploiters because this decision should be easy: find an exploit, report the exploit and move on. It isn’t worth the risk to the player or the game.

To give some perspective on our actions against exploiters, let’s discuss the karma vendor exploit, where an item was priced at 21 karma instead of 35,000 karma. In this case, we made a mistake and many players got some awesome weapons for very cheap. Does a single player buying a weapon, to use, damage the game or really hurt the players? Not terribly, but getting cheap weapons for your characters wasn’t the problem. The problem was the 1.46 million weapons purchased by 4,862 players, which averages over 300 weapons per player. There is a fundamental difference here between players who got a cheap weapon and players who found a bug in the game and took advantage of it. The latter attempted to create wealth for themselves at the expense of the other millions of players that are injured by exploiting behavior."

One might not like it or not agree it.

But it was said before - crafting can only generate money from the item crafted being sold in the TP.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

1/03/13 8:28:57 AM#46
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

 This is true.

 In fact it is in Arenets best interest to prema- ban as many players as possible. This will ensure a steady stream of new box sells to those players banned that want to ever play again. (banned players will just need to buy the game again and log in with a different email account to play)

   Thus it makes good sense for Arenet to be very heavy handed with banning. Non-effected players will say "look what a good job arenet is doing banning exploiters!" and arenet will laugh all the way to the bank with the money from additional box sells to said banned exploiters.l

It has NOTHING to revenue and everything to do with player's experience. If one person uses an exploit for getting a super-rare item and another person actually does what is needed in game - who's experience is impacted? The person who followed the rules. Rules are NOT MEANT TO BE BROKEN. There is consequences for breaking them.

 

[mod edit]

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  pedrostrik

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 400

1/03/13 8:30:41 AM#47


Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Scalpless

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Scalpless No, what I mean is that some time ago people crafted lvl 80 rares and salvaged them for ectos. It was a bit cheaper than buying ectos from the TP, but I'm not sure what the economy is like right now. You don't need ectos to craft rare weapons and armor, so it's always been a viable and sometimes even profitable way to get ectos. The problem is: You grabbed 1 ecto, add some other materials and got back 3 ectos.
You grab some t5 mats, add some other materials and get back 1-5 ectos. It's a very similar process and does the same thing in a less profitable way: generates ectos from other mats. The "exploit" was not a clear bug or anything. It still depended on getting snowflakes and their price did rise because of it. Every time there's an event with new rewards, new ways to make money are introduced. Back when Halloween started, I made 5g per hour by selling candy corn until its price stabilized. Should I be banned because of that? Of course not. Unless something is obviously bugged like the Karma weapons were, players shouldn't be perma banned for using a game mechanic. It's not our job to make sure GW2 is designed well. Originally posted by jpaprocki You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.
Still, I love these comments. Before GW2 came out, people were saying ANet won't ban anyone because they don't have to care about retaining players and need money from the cash shop. I guess they're going to get bashed by sub supporters no matter what they do.
No you didnt. Exotic armor require ectos to craft. Rare require tons of T5 mats and have a chance to yield 0 ectos. With the mithri recipe you could turn 1 into 50 ectos with a Black lion salvage kit.
 

exactly T5 gear haves % when salvaged to get 0-3 ectos, so the chances are poor, but on this new crhistmas recipe you always get ectos with black lion salvage kit, so ANET makes 2 mistakes in the same error, few mats to craft and 100% chance to get more ectos than craft cost,
Perma ban , i dont think so, but some kind o punishment could be enough for players who destroyed the market for these seasons.
Anyway if they perma ban people for these kind of exploits they should first perma ban once for all these bots infestation with autoteleport to nodes in game.

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

1/03/13 8:35:12 AM#48
Originally posted by pedrostrik

 


Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Scalpless

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Scalpless No, what I mean is that some time ago people crafted lvl 80 rares and salvaged them for ectos. It was a bit cheaper than buying ectos from the TP, but I'm not sure what the economy is like right now. You don't need ectos to craft rare weapons and armor, so it's always been a viable and sometimes even profitable way to get ectos. The problem is: You grabbed 1 ecto, add some other materials and got back 3 ectos.
You grab some t5 mats, add some other materials and get back 1-5 ectos. It's a very similar process and does the same thing in a less profitable way: generates ectos from other mats. The "exploit" was not a clear bug or anything. It still depended on getting snowflakes and their price did rise because of it. Every time there's an event with new rewards, new ways to make money are introduced. Back when Halloween started, I made 5g per hour by selling candy corn until its price stabilized. Should I be banned because of that? Of course not. Unless something is obviously bugged like the Karma weapons were, players shouldn't be perma banned for using a game mechanic. It's not our job to make sure GW2 is designed well. Originally posted by jpaprocki You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.
Still, I love these comments. Before GW2 came out, people were saying ANet won't ban anyone because they don't have to care about retaining players and need money from the cash shop. I guess they're going to get bashed by sub supporters no matter what they do.
No you didnt. Exotic armor require ectos to craft. Rare require tons of T5 mats and have a chance to yield 0 ectos. With the mithri recipe you could turn 1 into 50 ectos with a Black lion salvage kit.
 

 

exactly T5 gear haves % when salvaged to get 0-3 ectos, so the chances are poor, but on this new crhistmas recipe you always get ectos with black lion salvage kit, so ANET makes 2 mistakes in the same error, few mats to craft and 100% chance to get more ectos than craft cost,
Perma ban , i dont think so, but some kind o punishment could be enough for players who destroyed the market for these seasons.
Anyway if they perma ban people for these kind of exploits they should first perma ban once for all these bots infestation with autoteleport to nodes in game.

They have - they did 30K in December alone - don't you read their posts? I always report when I see a telport bot. It is not as frequent any more - in fact I have seen one in a month. There will always be bots - it is a fact of life. You can have the most fierce security and there will always be someone who will be out to exlpoit it - as they think it is a challenge (a warped challenge but a challenge none the less). Anyone caught botting gets a permaban.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3544

1/03/13 8:41:50 AM#49

ROFL, Anet you have taken the cake on 'how not to do QA / Post action after bug found'.

Essentially it came down to 'We decided we didn't like the way a recipe we implemented was being used. Course we could have fixed it but we left it alone for over a week. And now you are all banned"

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2589

1/03/13 8:45:41 AM#50

http://gwscr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=78

For those that don't know the non-oricalcium based.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2589

1/03/13 8:53:51 AM#51
Originally posted by jpnz

ROFL, Anet you have taken the cake on 'how not to do QA / Post action after bug found'.

Essentially it came down to 'We decided we didn't like the way a recipe we implemented was being used. Course we could have fixed it but we left it alone for over a week. And now you are all banned"

They basically said before this would happen - if they mess up they expect the players to not abuse it for the interest of the game population.

If the players decide to abuse the overlooks/mistakes of Anet anyway then they will banned.

I guess after the 3rd or 4th event of these bannings people will stop exploiting.

 

This would simply make ectos a common material, destroying pretty much one of the game currencies.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1001

 
OP  1/03/13 8:59:19 AM#52
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

 This is true.

 In fact it is in Arenets best interest to prema- ban as many players as possible. This will ensure a steady stream of new box sells to those players banned that want to ever play again. (banned players will just need to buy the game again and log in with a different email account to play)

   Thus it makes good sense for Arenet to be very heavy handed with banning. Non-effected players will say "look what a good job arenet is doing banning exploiters!" and arenet will laugh all the way to the bank with the money from additional box sells to said banned exploiters.l

It has NOTHING to revenue and everything to do with player's experience. If one person uses an exploit for getting a super-rare item and another person actually does what is needed in game - who's experience is impacted? The person who followed the rules. Rules are NOT MEANT TO BE BROKEN. There is consequences for breaking them.

 

You are just niave if you think they are doing this to generate box revenue that way. Grow up.

I'd be more likely to believe that, if you couldnt trade gems (which you buy with your credit card) for in game gold.  So in essence you can buy ectos with your credit card.

 

With the current market and gem trade values at my last check you get about 10g for $10 (800 gems) ectos cost around 24-27silver.  SO in essence you can get 40 ectos for $10.  More ectos would have crashed the ecto market (while at the same time skyrocketing the mithril market, people really made out there).

  crysent

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/05
Posts: 843

1/03/13 9:03:03 AM#53

I agree 100% with ANETs move to ban these players.  I have seen too many games ruined by exploits over the years, if ANET banned these players its likely they did it over and over and oer and over and over again, which would signifigantly impact the economy for all sorts of items.

 

I have zero sympathy for exploiters.

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

1/03/13 9:06:41 AM#54
Originally posted by dlld

My personal stance is that nothing you do within the game with game mechanics provided by the developers should ever warrant permanent restriction to something you paid for.

Basically sums up my stance. It's their fault the exploit was in the game, it's their fault they don't have a PTR, it's their fault GW2 is a gear/gold grind and filled with botters ruining the market.

 

Anet temp or perma bans everyone and anyone any chance they get in-game or on the forums and I hate it.

  mate0377

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/08
Posts: 56

1/03/13 9:44:15 AM#55
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by dlld

My personal stance is that nothing you do within the game with game mechanics provided by the developers should ever warrant permanent restriction to something you paid for.

Basically sums up my stance. It's their fault the exploit was in the game, it's their fault they don't have a PTR, it's their fault GW2 is a gear/gold grind and filled with botters ruining the market.

 

Anet temp or perma bans everyone and anyone any chance they get in-game or on the forums and I hate it.

bullcrap

its the fault of players who exploited it. Its like you go get money from ATM and for every 10$ (substracted from your account) you get 100$ real money.

And exploiter will deffend himself with bullcrap like I didnt know thats an exploit I tought its present from my bank....

But in the end you allways get punished

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1001

 
OP  1/03/13 9:52:36 AM#56
Originally posted by mate0377
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by dlld

My personal stance is that nothing you do within the game with game mechanics provided by the developers should ever warrant permanent restriction to something you paid for.

Basically sums up my stance. It's their fault the exploit was in the game, it's their fault they don't have a PTR, it's their fault GW2 is a gear/gold grind and filled with botters ruining the market.

 

Anet temp or perma bans everyone and anyone any chance they get in-game or on the forums and I hate it.

bullcrap

its the fault of players who exploited it. Its like you go get money from ATM and for every 10$ (substracted from your account) you get 100$ real money.

And exploiter will deffend himself with bullcrap like I didnt know thats an exploit I tought its present from my bank....

But in the end you allways get punished

Funny thing is, one of my guild mates who wasn't banned, acutally LOST money on this, because RNG hates him =D.  He ended up spending more on mithril than he took in on ectos, since he got so few.  So for him, it was like the bank took $11 out of his account for every $10 it gave him.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2675

1/03/13 2:50:43 PM#57
I think perma ban is harsh, probably they should have gone for temp ban. However, it is a well known fact (I hope it is) that exploiting bugs can get you banned. It is listed as a bannable offence in most terms of use of most online games. That's why I never exploit bugs. I remember in WoW, some of my friends were talking me into exploiting bugs with them. My answer was "Naah, I don't want to get banned".

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3086

I am more than some of my parts

1/03/13 3:30:32 PM#58
Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

So doesn't that imply that a P2P game won't ban exploiters and an honest person is better off playing B2P games?

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  Dantae87

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 172

1/03/13 3:35:40 PM#59

so instead of them fixing the issue and rolling back account they perma ban them? wow...glad i never got this game, Anet sounds just as bad as the warz devs.

i mean common if you had to get to point a to b and you knew about a shortcut that would cut your time in half u woudnt take it? HELL NO if it saves me time i would take it

Or if you wanted to buy sumthing but were short 10 bucks and as you were walkign out of the sotre u see sumone drop a 10 and not notice it you would pic it up and give it to them? HELL NO i would grab it and go get my item!

 

No clue how this game got such good reviews....guess the gamers of 2012 were just blinded by fancy "new" features...i say "new" cuz nothign this game offerd was new.

  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2385

1/03/13 3:35:44 PM#60
Anyone who does something that is obviously wrong, then repeatedly does it again to exploit the mechanic deserves to be perma banned.  It sends a strong message that they don't want your type there.
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