Originally posted by Derros

Unfortunately, most of my guild's active players got banned >_<.  I have alot less people to play with now.

 

  I also mailed some, not unexpensive, crafting materials to one of those guild members to make something for me, right before I read about their ban.  Of course Anet cant give me those mats back either, they dont give support any tools.

 

http://i.imgur.com/0SICA.jpg

 

pic of someone asking an Anet employee about the exploit, basically couldnt conform or deny that it was an exploit.

Okay, if an Anet employee can't even tell someone if it's an exploit or not (if that pic is genuine) then handing out bans for it is bullshit.

That's like having a cop or lawyer tell you something isn't illegal, then getting arrested for it anyway.

Also permanent bans for first time offenders (especially when there was apparently some ambiguity as to whether or not there actually WAS an exploit) is a bit steep especially since the fault lies partly with Anet for obviously not testing things properly in the first place. I'd think a temp ban and a rollback would be sufficient.

Anet: Our game's infested with bots, but we sure got rid 'o them exploiters! Hyuck!

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Scalpless
No, what I mean is that some time ago people crafted lvl 80 rares and salvaged them for ectos. It was a bit cheaper than buying ectos from the TP, but I'm not sure what the economy is like right now. You don't need ectos to craft rare weapons and armor, so it's always been a viable and sometimes even profitable way to get ectos.

The problem is:

You grabbed 1 ecto, add some other materials and got back 3 ectos.

You grab some t5 mats, add some other materials and get back 1-5 ectos. It's a very similar process and does the same thing in a less profitable way: generates ectos from other mats. The "exploit" was not a clear bug or anything. It still depended on getting snowflakes and their price did rise because of it.

Every time there's an event with new rewards, new ways to make money are introduced. Back when Halloween started, I made 5g per hour by selling candy corn until its price stabilized. Should I be banned because of that? Of course not. Unless something is obviously bugged like the Karma weapons were, players shouldn't be perma banned for using a game mechanic. It's not our job to make sure GW2 is designed well.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/An-open-discussion-about-fair-punishment/first#post1134098

Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

Still, I love these comments. Before GW2 came out, people were saying ANet won't ban anyone because they don't have to care about retaining players and need money from the cash shop. I guess they're going to get bashed by sub supporters no matter what they do.

I heared from a friend of mine that they banned like 3000 players because of this exploit..

And other friends that play it stopped playing because of this, like really why ban 3k players if its Anet's own problem not testing it properly in the first place >.<

Originally posted by Scalpless

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Scalpless
No, what I mean is that some time ago people crafted lvl 80 rares and salvaged them for ectos. It was a bit cheaper than buying ectos from the TP, but I'm not sure what the economy is like right now. You don't need ectos to craft rare weapons and armor, so it's always been a viable and sometimes even profitable way to get ectos.

The problem is:

You grabbed 1 ecto, add some other materials and got back 3 ectos.

You grab some t5 mats, add some other materials and get back 1-5 ectos. It's a very similar process and does the same thing in a less profitable way: generates ectos from other mats. The "exploit" was not a clear bug or anything. It still depended on getting snowflakes and their price did rise because of it.

Every time there's an event with new rewards, new ways to make money are introduced. Back when Halloween started, I made 5g per hour by selling candy corn until its price stabilized. Should I be banned because of that? Of course not. Unless something is obviously bugged like the Karma weapons were, players shouldn't be perma banned for using a game mechanic. It's not our job to make sure GW2 is designed well.

Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

Still, I love these comments. Before GW2 came out, people were saying ANet won't ban anyone because they don't have to care about retaining players and need money from the cash shop. I guess they're going to get bashed by sub supporters no matter what they do.

No you didnt.

Exotic armor require ectos to craft.

Rare require tons of T5 mats and have a chance to yield 0 ectos.

With the mithri recipe you could turn 1 into 50 ectos with a Black lion salvage kit.

Originally posted by Purutzil

Should be banned, least a temporary ban and what they had done rolled back. As far as the roll back, up to them if its all what it earned taken back or just a full character roll back for it if they so chose to. 

 

Either way, both Anet and the players both play a part in it. Anet needs to better test and consider things while players knowingly are exploiting systems not suppose to be in play should get penalized for doing so. I don't feel it should be a 'permanent' ban due to ANet not testing fully for stuff, but it should at the very minimum roll back what they earned from the exploit and give some length of ban time.

That's the thing it wasn't temporary.

They didn't even bother to rollback like Blizz has so many times.

Oh and I wasn't one of them I'm just in agreement with the people on this one. They should have checked their crap before releasing the patch. 

You see there's a bigger problem here you guys aren't talking about or seeing, Anet thinks they are too good for a PTR and therefor doesn't employ one for major patches. It's not just the exploits that are revealing of just how bad this testing model is....they have basically disappointed fans continuously with thier current managements arrogance and misses with that arrogance when releasing patches in both content and in fixes in gameplay. As such they are WAY behind on everything and are scrambling to release two "major" patches in jan and feb which will most likely be huge bug fix fests that will have minor testing prior to launch.

Because of this they are ignoring many of history's lessons learned long ago and recently by other mmo developers adding to the confusion of the players as to "just who the heck is in charge over there and what the heck were they thinking when they thought this one up"/

This is the second unprovoked mass permabans they've pulled on the players yet when one reports a gold farmer bot or a series of bots they return days later because the bots act like they are a real player and plead to Anet to allow them to continue. It's sad really, their management needs an overhaul so they can actually function and their game despirately needs a PTR.

Originally posted by Derros

Unfortunately, most of my guild's active players got banned >_<.  I have alot less people to play with now.

Your guild will be much better off in the long run without players like that.  Exploiters are on a par with gold-sellers, I.E. worthless scum.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Scalpless

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Scalpless
No, what I mean is that some time ago people crafted lvl 80 rares and salvaged them for ectos. It was a bit cheaper than buying ectos from the TP, but I'm not sure what the economy is like right now. You don't need ectos to craft rare weapons and armor, so it's always been a viable and sometimes even profitable way to get ectos.

The problem is:

You grabbed 1 ecto, add some other materials and got back 3 ectos.

You grab some t5 mats, add some other materials and get back 1-5 ectos. It's a very similar process and does the same thing in a less profitable way: generates ectos from other mats. The "exploit" was not a clear bug or anything. It still depended on getting snowflakes and their price did rise because of it.

Every time there's an event with new rewards, new ways to make money are introduced. Back when Halloween started, I made 5g per hour by selling candy corn until its price stabilized. Should I be banned because of that? Of course not. Unless something is obviously bugged like the Karma weapons were, players shouldn't be perma banned for using a game mechanic. It's not our job to make sure GW2 is designed well.

Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

Still, I love these comments. Before GW2 came out, people were saying ANet won't ban anyone because they don't have to care about retaining players and need money from the cash shop. I guess they're going to get bashed by sub supporters no matter what they do.

No you didnt.

Exotic armor require ectos to craft.

Rare require tons of T5 mats and have a chance to yield 0 ectos.

With the mithri recipe you could turn 1 into 50 ectos with a Black lion salvage kit.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKIN' BOUT!

Originally posted by Derros

Unfortunately, most of my guild's active players got banned >_<.  I have alot less people to play with now.

 

  I also mailed some, not unexpensive, crafting materials to one of those guild members to make something for me, right before I read about their ban.  Of course Anet cant give me those mats back either, they dont give support any tools.

 

http://i.imgur.com/0SICA.jpg

 

pic of someone asking an Anet employee about the exploit, basically couldnt conform or deny that it was an exploit.

Not A.Nets fault - your guild members were guilty of the exploit and you mailed it to them. Get over it and move on - materials are rather easy to get - getting out of a permaban is not.

A.Net's stance was bluntly clear from the beginning - this is a non-story.

Originally posted by Dibdabs

Originally posted by Derros

Unfortunately, most of my guild's active players got banned >_<.  I have alot less people to play with now.

Your guild will be much better off in the long run without players like that.  Exploiters are on a par with gold-sellers, I.E. worthless scum.

cept the exploiters are actual players that are being treated unfairly by a company that has the capacity to punish without making it permanent and treats their gold farmers differently and more leniently then actual players. There are also reports of them banning players simply for transfering gold to other players via the mail system, between guildmates for example, in a game with huge economy problems it's a common thing in guilds to help others reach their goals or help to buy things like the commanger badge.

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Originally posted by Derros

Unfortunately, most of my guild's active players got banned >_<.  I have alot less people to play with now.

 

  I also mailed some, not unexpensive, crafting materials to one of those guild members to make something for me, right before I read about their ban.  Of course Anet cant give me those mats back either, they dont give support any tools.

 

http://i.imgur.com/0SICA.jpg

 

pic of someone asking an Anet employee about the exploit, basically couldnt conform or deny that it was an exploit.

Okay, if an Anet employee can't even tell someone if it's an exploit or not (if that pic is genuine) then handing out bans for it is bullshit.

That's like having a cop or lawyer tell you something isn't illegal, then getting arrested for it anyway.

Also permanent bans for first time offenders (especially when there was apparently some ambiguity as to whether or not there actually WAS an exploit) is a bit steep especially since the fault lies partly with Anet for obviously not testing things properly in the first place. I'd think a temp ban and a rollback would be sufficient.

Anet: Our game's infested with bots, but we sure got rid 'o them exploiters! Hyuck!

For once Rednecksith, you and I see eye to eye....the universe is gonna splode LOL

Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

In Rift - people caught of exploits did get permabans, so this is a non-issue again. It has nothing to do with A.Net but all to do with players using exploits that were discovered and chould not have been in the game in the first place.

Just because a flaw was put into the game, does not mean you have to use it or exploit it.

A.Net had the same stance in GW1 - The exploiters got what they deserved.

so why did they exploitto begon with

Or did they think this was some super secret gift from super secret santa

As for rednecksith who said "That's like having a cop or lawyer tell you something isn't illegal, then getting arrested for it anyway." You do know that this is how the real world works right. Ignorance of the law does not equal a automatic get out of jail free card.

But greed tend to make people careless.

Originally posted by tawess

so why did they exploitto begon with

 

Or did they think this was some super secret gift from super secret santa

part of the problem is there's some question even by Anet employees as to whether this was an exploit. The other problem is Anet is too arrogant to employ a standard PTR, so yeah it's definitely a real issue especially for a game company that's been throwing out one disappointment after another for content patches and game fixes for the past 4 months. And yes their management needs to go big time....

No I dunno anyone nor did I exploit so....

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by tawess

so why did they exploitto begon with

 

Or did they think this was some super secret gift from super secret santa

part of the problem is there's some question even by Anet employees as to whether this was an exploit. The other problem is Anet is too arrogant to employ a standard PTR, so yeah it's definitely a real issue especially for a game company that's been throwing out one disappointment after another for content patches and game fixes for the past 4 months. And yes their management needs to go big time....

 

No I dunno anyone nor did I exploit so....

Sure not... you just hate for the sake of hating.

Not surprised. If you make money in the game it's called an exploit. They did it with karma items. They did it with food. Now, this is called an exploit too. It's a great word to use because it makes outsiders think the person deserves punishment.

When I look at it from the perspective of a player where you play the game and you don't know what things should be worth because they are NEW, you expect that the game developers made it worth what they wanted it to be worth. That's the mistake, you trust them to have tested it and be sure that this is what they want it to be.

Then they turn it on you and call you an exploiter.

This makes the first time I've seen Reddit have mostly negative threads on the hot page. Even the diehards are starting to rethink their positions on the tactics presented by management.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/

These ban antics along with their unrealistic restrictions on the forum are truly creating a police state. The game is turning into North Korea - anyone else see the relationship? As I told them when I left the game, you are ruining your game, blame only yourself. I see they haven't stopped blaming the players for everything that's the only thing that makes me lack surprise about the situation.

As someone mentioned, you paid for the game, if you aren't a hefty cash shop user, nothing hurts them to kick you out and make you re-purchase the game.

In history though, they have been wishy washy and went back on bans. If you got banned - you may get it removed if you make enough of a stink. Makes me wonder if they don't ban just to get attention and purge the game of people not playing correctly - using the cash shop.

This is why ive always liked Anet, they wield a Banhammer of death that always 1 hit kills anyone it strikes.

Exploiters ruin a game so in any game they cant be tollerated and it serves as a lesson to others in future, these guys should have learned the lesson from the exotic PVP gear exploit at games launch.

Originally posted by QSatu

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Anet announced their stance on this early on.

If people choose to ignore it, it is their problem.

 

qft. It's always amusing how greed makes people so stupid.

Thats why f2p concepts with ingame shops work, they aim for the greed.

Originally posted by dragomushra

I heared from a friend of mine that they banned like 3000 players because of this exploit..

 

And other friends that play it stopped playing because of this, like really why ban 3k players if its Anet's own problem not testing it properly in the first place >.<

They can only do so much testing - period. I remember, one of the first patched Trion did for Rift, which allowed an exploit for clerics - making them impossible to kill in PvP. They permabanned like 3-500 players that got caught using the exploit. They didn't see the exploit in their testing but did when the patch was released.

Your friends are stupid - can I say that? They can test and test and test but until a patch comes out in the real world, you never know what will happen. My wife is a scientific computer programmer and her joke is, "The last bug is fixed when the last user is dead.'  You can have all the testing in the world, still there maybe some things you never think of. Is that A.Net's fault? Not really.

Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

 This is true.

 In fact it is in Arenets best interest to prema- ban as many players as possible. This will ensure a steady stream of new box sells to those players banned that want to ever play again. (banned players will just need to buy the game again and log in with a different email account to play)

   Thus it makes good sense for Arenet to be very heavy handed with banning. Non-effected players will say "look what a good job arenet is doing banning exploiters!" and arenet will laugh all the way to the bank with the money from additional box sells to said banned exploiters.l