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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How Many People Actually Have the Time for a True Sandbox?

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67 posts found
  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3394

1/02/13 4:14:25 PM#41

Its an entertainment product, pretty sure there will be people that will make the time.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Iczer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/10/04
Posts: 104

I want a world in a sandbox ... not a theme park!

1/02/13 4:20:00 PM#42
Originally posted by Loktofeit
UO was rarely ever time comsuming. If anything, it contained all those evil, taboo things that get you to the fun faster (GGS, fast travel to any point, low reqs for mounts/housing/ownership).

Wrrrrooonnnngggggg .... UO consumed the better part of 5 or so years of my life ... and it was the best 5 years of virtual life I've spent online out of them all.

Seriously tho, I also never felt time pressured to spend oodles and oodles of time in the sandbox games I liked (UO, Shadowbane). I did, however, spend a lot of time in them becuase they were freeking fun and I spent far to much time at work planning out what I wanted to do when I got in game that evening.

I could explore part of the map I havent been to before or hit one fo the dungeons with some friends that I knew was a real pain to get deep into (but fun the whole time), or go hunting enemy faction players (Order/Chaos in UO), or spend some time on my bard farming monsters at whatever spot I choose to pick that day. The possibilities were endless but out of all of those things I think the one thing I enjoyed the most in UO was just hanging out with my friends in one of our houses in game and meeting / dealing with the random people that would happen by. Some would be looking to attack you so some house fighting would ensue and others just wanted information or to say hi and chat.

  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 558

1/02/13 4:30:57 PM#43
Originally posted by Roguewiz

Either you're grinding mobs, grinding quests, grinding dungeons, or grinding PvP.  Regardless of the wrapping, you're performing some repetitive function to acquire XP so you can get that extra skill point or hit that desired level.

I disagree with this.

Sometimes grinding mobs had nothing to do with xp at all. Some people use to grind mobs to get a rare drop that was an ingredient to build an awesome sword or spellbook for example. It was rewarding.

Now, you grind dungeons for tokens to turn to a vendor and everyone has the same exact setup.

And pvp, there was no grind. You wore the same gear that you obtained from PVE. PvP meant something. Like fighting for control of a zone, dungeon, resource nodes, etc. Now it's well, I don't know the point of PVP now, bragging rights for winning an arena match? It's predictable and scripted fights in a little room with 3rd party macros telling me what button to push and when. Circle strife each other while spamming CCs until someone hits the wrong hotkey and loses the match. Big deal.

I just don't see the accomplishment and reward for having the same skills in my toolbar and the same set of armor as the 1000s of other same class players in the hub city waiting for a que to pop.

I want to put in effort to be different and better. I can't do that in a themepark.

  Fishmitts

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/09
Posts: 237

1/02/13 4:32:33 PM#44
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by Fishmitts

Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.   Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?  
 Even if you only have an hour to play thats fine, now c'mere and help me build this stupid wall.. It should only take about an hour.

But since its a sandbox there is no quick travel so you have to run to that stupid wall yourself which will take about 30 minutes. Now lets just theres no probl....

 


and your 3 year old falls down and hurts himself which means you have to suddenly go AFK and causes you to die. The harsh death penalty sets you back a week.


Sorry, but sandbox.

 There's your problem.. Never ever EVER go AFK in a perma-death full loot sandbox. Thats just asking for trouble.. I always log out in DAYZ, even if its just to use the bathroom.

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1294

1/02/13 4:35:37 PM#45
There will always be the younger generations, that have time to play... patience on the other hand....

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: ESO, ArcheAge, Class4, EQN.

Dead and Buried: NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 558

1/02/13 4:36:52 PM#46
Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by ShakyMo

why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

 My capitalist rant of the day:

"You", and I speak of the "us" in your statement, represent a small minority of the genera. I know this because the isn't a game designed for "you", your words. If "you" were a bigger group, "you" would have garnered the attention of the developers, since devolpers only want money.(This also answers the question of "why do developers constant make 'WoW Clones'?"

I agree. I don't like it though.

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1234

Reason is a necessity

1/02/13 4:38:04 PM#47
When a true sandbox comes out I will find the time.
  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 558

1/02/13 4:40:04 PM#48
Originally posted by Roguewiz
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by ShakyMo

why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

Eventually you will roll something else, but you can always twink! (30 Rogue in a level 39+ zone soloing Frost Giants)

For the most part, I agree.  There is a lot more replayability, in my eyes, in a Sandbox than there is in a Themepark game.  Ouf course, having something to shoot for beyond cap is what is needed.  I think that is what makes EQ and EQ2 so enjoyable...Alternate Advancement.  So even at cap, you have something to look forward to.

Of course, I haven't played EQ in like 5 or 6 years, so I'm not sure what I would do if I had a more modern Sandbox to play with.

 

True.

I have to admit, in AO, I was addicted to rolling alts for twinking. That mechanic was just too amazing IMO.

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1119

1/02/13 4:45:44 PM#49
I fail to understand the premise of this thread. The OP is implying that sandbox games are more time consuming than themeparks by design but that isn't true. If anything the sandbox style actually puts less pressure on the player to race through the game as there's no linear progression.
  shirlnt

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/06
Posts: 350

1/02/13 5:11:22 PM#50

In my experience, a sandbox game takes less play time than a completely themepark game.  Let me compare SWG (pre-cu/pre players having levels) and WoW.  In SWG, if i had 30 minutes to an hour to play, I could work on entertainment profession or I could craft for a bit, or I could run some missions from a terminal.  Running missions out of terminal in my guild city was the easiest way to fill in a short amount of time.  I would choose a couple of nearby missions, take care of them, and come back to town.  I didn't have to worry about losing track of time and playing for longer than intended.  I played SWG on a regular basis but, if I hadn't, missing playing time wasn't a big deal as I didn't have to worry about the people I played with outleveling me while I was away.

In WoW, I had very little control over the location of the quest givers and the quest locations.  If I'd finished all the quest in my current location or had outleveled the area, I would have to spend time traveling to an area that matched my level and/or had available quests.  After getting the quest, I might have to travel again to get to the location of the quest.  It was easier to lose track of time trying to "get to a good stopping point."  Also, if I had people I wanted to do quest with in WoW, either person not  playing at the same time, for the same amount of time, could quickly become an issue.

  Xiaoki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2370

1/02/13 8:24:30 PM#51


Originally posted by Fishmitts

Originally posted by Xiaoki  

Originally posted by Fishmitts

Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.   Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?  
 Even if you only have an hour to play thats fine, now c'mere and help me build this stupid wall.. It should only take about an hour.
But since its a sandbox there is no quick travel so you have to run to that stupid wall yourself which will take about 30 minutes. Now lets just theres no probl....   and your 3 year old falls down and hurts himself which means you have to suddenly go AFK and causes you to die. The harsh death penalty sets you back a week. Sorry, but sandbox.
 There's your problem.. Never ever EVER go AFK in a perma-death full loot sandbox. Thats just asking for trouble.. I always log out in DAYZ, even if its just to use the bathroom.


"Sorry, I know you have a boo boo but daddy has to log out of this video game first."


Maybe "hardcore" is the problem. Too many sandbox fans expect sandbox MMOs to be these hardcore life consuming virtual worlds and anything less would be a dumbed down casual single player game for carebears.

  NorseGod

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 558

1/02/13 8:31:24 PM#52
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by Fishmitts

Originally posted by Xiaoki  

Originally posted by Fishmitts

Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.   Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?  
 Even if you only have an hour to play thats fine, now c'mere and help me build this stupid wall.. It should only take about an hour.
But since its a sandbox there is no quick travel so you have to run to that stupid wall yourself which will take about 30 minutes. Now lets just theres no probl....   and your 3 year old falls down and hurts himself which means you have to suddenly go AFK and causes you to die. The harsh death penalty sets you back a week. Sorry, but sandbox.
 There's your problem.. Never ever EVER go AFK in a perma-death full loot sandbox. Thats just asking for trouble.. I always log out in DAYZ, even if its just to use the bathroom.

"Sorry, I know you have a boo boo but daddy has to log out of this video game first."

 


Maybe "hardcore" is the problem. Too many sandbox fans expect sandbox MMOs to be these hardcore life consuming virtual worlds and anything less would be a dumbed down casual single player game for carebears.

You can always play something from a long list of other games that were made just for you.

If only there was a website that had such a list.....

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

1/02/13 8:33:58 PM#53
Originally posted by Xiaoki

But since its a sandbox there is no quick travel so you have to run to that stupid wall yourself which will take about 30 minutes.

Second Life, Kaneva and Ultima Online disagree. 

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1041

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

1/02/13 8:37:00 PM#54
Originally posted by fat_taddler

My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.  

Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game.

Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?

 

I dont know if I could stomach a full sandbox title.  I would want some type/form of questing invovled so I probably would want a hybrid.

But given the case, I would make the time to play it.  Part of the fun I love about PC MMOs is the save-whenever-I-log-out so I grow my character over time in increments.  Since it would be sandbox like there is no 'rush' to end game or max level.  So I can really take my time and explore or whatever else I would like to get into.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

1/02/13 9:08:54 PM#55
Originally posted by fat_taddler

My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.  

Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game.

Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?

 

From the numerous studies that have been done over the years, yes. The average player generally spends around 20 hours a week in thier virtual world of choice. By comparison the average American watches 28 hours of tv a week. The corrolated data tends to show that those who game, or spend copious amounts of time on the internet tend to replace tv time with game time.

Originally posted by Iczer
Originally posted by Loktofeit
UO was rarely ever time comsuming. If anything, it contained all those evil, taboo things that get you to the fun faster (GGS, fast travel to any point, low reqs for mounts/housing/ownership).

Wrrrrooonnnngggggg .... UO consumed the better part of 5 or so years of my life ... and it was the best 5 years of virtual life I've spent online out of them all.

Seriously tho, I also never felt time pressured to spend oodles and oodles of time in the sandbox games I liked (UO, Shadowbane). I did, however, spend a lot of time in them becuase they were freeking fun and I spent far to much time at work planning out what I wanted to do when I got in game that evening.

I could explore part of the map I havent been to before or hit one fo the dungeons with some friends that I knew was a real pain to get deep into (but fun the whole time), or go hunting enemy faction players (Order/Chaos in UO), or spend some time on my bard farming monsters at whatever spot I choose to pick that day. The possibilities were endless but out of all of those things I think the one thing I enjoyed the most in UO was just hanging out with my friends in one of our houses in game and meeting / dealing with the random people that would happen by. Some would be looking to attack you so some house fighting would ensue and others just wanted information or to say hi and chat.

With how staunchly you are arguing for the almighty savior of the gaming future I cannot help but be amused since you describe how I acted with WoW almost to a T.

Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by Roguewiz

Either you're grinding mobs, grinding quests, grinding dungeons, or grinding PvP.  Regardless of the wrapping, you're performing some repetitive function to acquire XP so you can get that extra skill point or hit that desired level.

I disagree with this.

Sometimes grinding mobs had nothing to do with xp at all. Some people use to grind mobs to get a rare drop that was an ingredient to build an awesome sword or spellbook for example. It was rewarding.

Now, you grind dungeons for tokens to turn to a vendor and everyone has the same exact setup.

And pvp, there was no grind. You wore the same gear that you obtained from PVE. PvP meant something. Like fighting for control of a zone, dungeon, resource nodes, etc. Now it's well, I don't know the point of PVP now, bragging rights for winning an arena match? It's predictable and scripted fights in a little room with 3rd party macros telling me what button to push and when. Circle strife each other while spamming CCs until someone hits the wrong hotkey and loses the match. Big deal.

I just don't see the accomplishment and reward for having the same skills in my toolbar and the same set of armor as the 1000s of other same class players in the hub city waiting for a que to pop.

I want to put in effort to be different and better. I can't do that in a themepark.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Themeparks and everything to do with the playerbase today. There is no system that with a suffieciently sized population will not fuss out the "best" set up and play copy paste. There is always a mathematically "best" way. Now you can blame WoW for that to an extent as across the gaming landscape you did not see that kind of theorycrafting happening. Even going back to Eq with guilds actively killing content they no longer had a use for just to keep people from challenging them, strats and the like was guarded fiercly. WoW, being instanced, actually allowed the showing of first kill strats and the like with no real blowback or threat outside of the epeen race that has replaced it.

 

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Fearum

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1055

1/02/13 9:26:19 PM#56

I have yet to see a good sandbox game to devote any amount of time too. Some of them, if your not there at the start you will always behind with no curve to catch up. I would love to see one that is only based on skill and not on time played. Then you have to try and balance progression, but if you balance anything you are taking away "freedom".

Also its hard to find a good community in a sandbox world. If you ask a question in chat you are usually machine gunned with insults with the rare occasion of the guy that is willing to help.

I would love to see a good sandbox game though, there are a few coming down the line that I might give a shot.

  Boardwalker

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 373

1/03/13 12:06:23 AM#57
Originally posted by BadSpock

I just hate that there is only 1 serious contender in the sandbox play space right now (EvE)- and though it should be a perfect fit for me - the game bores me to tears and I absolutely hate the advancement system.

 

You and I have had completely different experiences with EVE. For me, not only is it the best sandbox out there, it is the best MMORPG available right now. And I love the advancement system. Progressing my character whille offline? Love it. A dozen or so careers/paths that I can choose for my character? Super. It also offers a large and diverse universe in which to explore and live, which is great for immersion.

 

Different strokes I guess.

 

Edit: In response to the OP: my schedule is extremely limited--I basically play games after my wife and son go to bed, and not so late as to screw myself for work. A sandbox should offer enough activities, short and long, where I can choose to do whatever fits into my schedule for that night.

 

 

They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW
Play EVE for free for 21 days

  Ghavrigg

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 608

1/03/13 12:13:26 AM#58
Originally posted by IIIcurrier
Originally posted by Fearum
Most people just use a macro or some form of self botting anyway to level in sandbox games so you really don't need time.

 

This is pretty ignorant, it is actually much easier to macro themepark games as enviroments never change, the massive quest lines and hubs that are always the same. [mod edit]

Hmm.. my friends have been playing Asheron's Call 1 for over 10 years now, and the only way they level is through macros, and have been for like 6-7 of those years. For some reason, it doesn't get old to them. The leveling in Asheron's Call is in no way fun after a point, but with macros they can get to max level in  a few weeks, so it gets the job done. A LOT of people macro in AC, and it's a sandbox. Not everyone does, but the majority of that game is macroers.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

1/03/13 1:38:41 AM#59
Originally posted by Aviggin
Originally posted by IIIcurrier
Originally posted by Fearum
Most people just use a macro or some form of self botting anyway to level in sandbox games so you really don't need time.

 

This is pretty ignorant, it is actually much easier to macro themepark games as enviroments never change, the massive quest lines and hubs that are always the same. [mod edit]

Hmm.. my friends have been playing Asheron's Call 1 for over 10 years now, and the only way they level through the themepark content is through macros, and have been for like 6-7 of those years. For some reason, it doesn't get old to them. The leveling in Asheron's Call is in no way fun after a point, but with macros they can get to max level in  a few weeks, so it gets the job done. A LOT of people macro in AC, and it's a sandbox. Not everyone does, but the majority of that game is macroers.

 

  Agrias34

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/09
Posts: 142

1/03/13 1:48:19 AM#60

I've got a lot of time and sandbox games are my favorite except none of them can keep my attention for very long because they aren't very well made.  Even though most games claim to be sandbox style, they aren't.  Age of Wushu for example says its the biggest sandbox game or whatever, except it isn't.  You gotta do quests and dungeons in order to get your skills and training, sounds like a great sandbox to me.

 

Darkfall UW hopefully can put some life back into my sandbox heart, and I can't wait for it to go live.

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