What I read was were getting one planet with 5 levels. The planet is supposed to be big, I bet the don't understand big. Were doing something with pvp your going to like it, I bet not. Were trying to do something with in game romance that I bet only a small percentage asked for that. They had a chance to look at all the feedback about what was wrong with the game to begin with and totally ignored it all.

"We don't want to put in same sex romances because it's tooooooo haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard."

Funny I could have sworn these guys were paid to create games and as such are supposed to be considered professionals in game design. Bioware is a complete joke. There's no reason we should be paying a sub fee for this crap when TSW and GW2 are very successful as B2P MMOs.

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

Also mentioned in Hickmans letter....SAME SEX MARRIAGE(to an npc) is being added to the game.

This is another reason  why I will  never play the game.

Why, can't you trust yourself not to choose the flirt option if it is presented?

Originally posted by ObiClownobi

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

Also mentioned in Hickmans letter....SAME SEX MARRIAGE(to an npc) is being added to the game.

This is another reason  why I will  never play the game.

Why, can't you trust yourself not to choose the flirt option if it is presented?

~.~ Not sure what his problem with same sex marriage is, unless hes refering to it only in the game context in which case i agree. Biotards love to make every single character bi.  -____- lazy programmers.

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

Also mentioned in Hickmans letter....SAME SEX MARRIAGE(to an npc) is being added to the game.

This is another reason  why I will  never play the game.

ummm.....

As a Gay Man myself, I actually do not wish to see any sex or romance in MMO's no matter if its straight, bi, gay, Transgender, hell even dogs doing each other up a side street, I come to play MMO's to get away from the hassles of relationships. I just dont think they have a place in the gaming commuity. If i want romance I can just go on Match.com, Plently of fish or Gaydar. One reason I gave up SWTOR was because I was making light choices and Mako was falling love with me, just because im a good guy :)

The "flirt" options just made me cringe, and thats not because im sexist or homophobic (possibly like like the person ive quoted above), it wasnt because I was flirting with a man, or a woman,  but mainly because I just dont think these opinions have a place in the Gaming community, there are plenty of other forums/newsfeeds/websites to discuss this sort of stuff.

The expansion is going to be the nail in the game's coffin. A new planet with new levels and one new active ability for each class. Thats it. There are no operations, no flashpoints, no warzones, or space missions. Don't fool yourself. They may come in a content patch after. (which btw, will probably require owning the expansion in order to do) A level cap raise at this point is a bad idea for a list of reasons:

1) Seperates the free to play player base from the sub base - The player bases were already pretty far apart, this only seperates them further. This makes the free players that are normally an asset to the subscriber base no longer be one.

2) Potentially Invalidates old content - So you go from having end game content with flashpoints and operations to....not

3) Level scaling content - So they scale all the old content, while this seems like a solution it is not a good one. This makes everyone forced to level to see all the old content, has everyone level up just to see the same content, or the old content still stays at 50 but you can scale it to 55...which is very clunky. Try explaining to someone why they should buy an expansion when it means it only means doing the same stuff again when they hit max level.

4) Forces free players to buy the expansion in order to see future content patches

5) Forces sub players to buy an expansion in order to see future content patches - This is not an expansion. Its a content patch. Think of it like a giant daily quest hub that lets you level up to 55.

6) Sets a poor precedent - What will stop them from just adding more "expansions" that cost 10$ and 20$ (based on sub level) for a content patch

Originally posted by SuperDonk

Once I accepted SWTOR for what it is - a fun online co-op game with many MMO-like features - I was able to have fun with it.

 

I do know that SWTOR is not a Massive Multiplayer Online game - there will never be massive battles on the planets or in space. I enjoy the PVP it does have but I know this game will never be the long-term game I was hoping for. It will be a game I return for a few months when I get the itch and leave when the itch has been scratched.

Which is why the F2P should not be as restrictive as it is or have a monthly fee, and basically be like TSW - B2P

I would pay a monthly fee to Red Dead Redemption before I pay a fee for this, at least it got updated more often, and the last update was free as thanks from Rockstar for the support players gave it.

Games like Star Wars battlefriont, Jedi Knight and Republic Commando which were released ages ago, and Jedi Knight was before SWG, are still being played online by people today - These are the best places for online Star Wars action.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by SuperDonk

Once I accepted SWTOR for what it is - a fun online co-op game with many MMO-like features - I was able to have fun with it.

 

I do know that SWTOR is not a Massive Multiplayer Online game - there will never be massive battles on the planets or in space. I enjoy the PVP it does have but I know this game will never be the long-term game I was hoping for. It will be a game I return for a few months when I get the itch and leave when the itch has been scratched.

Which is why the F2P should not be as restrictive as it is or have a monthly fee, and basically be like TSW - B2P

I would pay a monthly fee to Red Dead Redemption before I pay a fee for this, at least it got updated more often, and the last update was free as thanks from Rockstar for the support players gave it.

Games like Star Wars battlefriont, Jedi Knight and Republic Commando which were released ages ago, and Jedi Knight was before SWG, are still being played online by people today - These are the best places for online Star Wars action.

If you believe that the F2P model on SWTOR is restrictive, dont play Lotro or AoC. And maybe u didnt notice it yet, but TOR is earning new players and subs everyday, so far the F2P is an success.

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by SuperDonk

Once I accepted SWTOR for what it is - a fun online co-op game with many MMO-like features - I was able to have fun with it.

 

I do know that SWTOR is not a Massive Multiplayer Online game - there will never be massive battles on the planets or in space. I enjoy the PVP it does have but I know this game will never be the long-term game I was hoping for. It will be a game I return for a few months when I get the itch and leave when the itch has been scratched.

Which is why the F2P should not be as restrictive as it is or have a monthly fee, and basically be like TSW - B2P

I would pay a monthly fee to Red Dead Redemption before I pay a fee for this, at least it got updated more often, and the last update was free as thanks from Rockstar for the support players gave it.

Games like Star Wars battlefriont, Jedi Knight and Republic Commando which were released ages ago, and Jedi Knight was before SWG, are still being played online by people today - These are the best places for online Star Wars action.

If you believe that the F2P model on SWTOR is restrictive, dont play Lotro or AoC. And maybe u didnt notice it yet, but TOR is earning new players and subs everyday, so far the F2P is an success.

 I play LOTRO and it definately is less restrictive than SWTOR. The thing I like about it, is that you can earn Turbine points as you play - you get awarded for playing the game. The only way to earn CC is by paying

Also  can purchase more than 2 char slots, with 17 max

Originally posted by Celcius

The expansion is going to be the nail in the game's coffin.

I doubt it.  It will make them money based on what many players have been saying.  People are always glad to get level increases and the players that have stuck with SWTOR this long aren't going to bail now that they have something new coming up.

It is a bad precedent, but one that was set by other developers like Turbine.  It's come to the point where developers just need to add a single zone, new quests and a level cap increase.  The people will still buy it. 

As a lifer I got the last two LOTRO expansions for free.  I quit the first one as soon as I hit the level cap.  I quit RoR soon after gaining only one of the five added levels.  I would never support EA by buying an "expansion" like Makeb.  But just because i think it's appalling, that doesn't mean their fanboys will.  Many SWTOR subscribers are excited for this update and are happy to pay the $10 for it.  Hell, they've been paying $15 a month and getting nothing in return for it.

Let's see where the game stands a few months from now. To me, a successful MMO is one that produces a significant amount of content every few months. (Regardless of patch interval size) 

SWTOR's content additions, even compared to other free to play games, has produced less content since launch then most MMOs do years after launch. The raids are miniature, the daily quest hubs are a joke, the flashpoints are decent..but they were done before launch so the quality will drop from this point forward, and the warzones are good.

Considering how much they have actually added to the game though...its pretty sad. In a year they added 3 raids, one of which was just bosses added to a current raid, for a grand total of 14 raid bosses. The next WoW patch has 13 raid bosses. 

Every patch in nearly every MMO that adds daily quests adds them pretty much in every content patch, so thats not exactly content. They didn't even add thay many of those. Once 5.2 is out for WoW they will have added 2 of them in MoP alone. (Around 4-5 months) Flashpoints are great, but they have not added them since SWTOR started its decline. Let's see what they look like with the smaller dev team. Space missions? Is that a joke? I can't really contest the Warzones because those are pretty solid, but that does not excuse how completely broken PvP has been since 1.2. 

Just a note: Mirkwood was only 10$ and added 3 player instances and a new raid. It was also only 10$ for free players and now you can even purchase the game with turbine points. Bioware and EA in their money grubbing way, only allows you to purchase the expansion with cash and not cartel coins for an insignificant amount of content.

Originally posted by superniceguy

 I play LOTRO and it definately is less restrictive than SWTOR. The thing I like about it, is that you can earn Turbine points as you play - you get awarded for playing the game. The only way to earn CC is by paying

No it's not.  In SWTOR you level to the current cap without paying any cash.  Good luck doing that in LOTRO, just the vanilla level cap, just by questing.  You'll need to grind a LOT of mobs and deeds.  That's VERY restrictive in my book.

I don't think you can call an MMO F2P if it doesn't give you the released zones and quests for free.  There shouldn't be anything in an MMO store for unlocking quests to get you to the release level cap.  They shouldn't exist because that content should be free.  SWTOR got that part right.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by superniceguy

 I play LOTRO and it definately is less restrictive than SWTOR. The thing I like about it, is that you can earn Turbine points as you play - you get awarded for playing the game. The only way to earn CC is by paying

No it's not.  In SWTOR you level to the current cap without paying any cash.  Good luck doing that in LOTRO, just the vanilla level cap, just by questing.  You'll need to grind a LOT of mobs and deeds.  That's VERY restrictive in my book.

 

I don't think you can call an MMO F2P if it doesn't give you the released zones and quests for free.  There shouldn't be anything in an MMO store for unlocking quests to get you to the release level cap.  They shouldn't exist because that content should be free.  SWTOR got that part right.

Persoanlly I think that was wrong, they should have charged for 2 planets at a time instead of restrcited XP and UI bars and the weekly passes should be a once unlock. makeb should be free to subs, but charged for F2P

Paying for content is better than UI bars, as a game is all about content, that is what you pay a monthly fee for

Also the other thing is that SWTOR is restricted to 2 chars only. LOTRO you can unlock as many as you want up to 17 per server.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by superniceguy

 I play LOTRO and it definately is less restrictive than SWTOR. The thing I like about it, is that you can earn Turbine points as you play - you get awarded for playing the game. The only way to earn CC is by paying

No it's not.  In SWTOR you level to the current cap without paying any cash.  Good luck doing that in LOTRO, just the vanilla level cap, just by questing.  You'll need to grind a LOT of mobs and deeds.  That's VERY restrictive in my book.

 

I don't think you can call an MMO F2P if it doesn't give you the released zones and quests for free.  There shouldn't be anything in an MMO store for unlocking quests to get you to the release level cap.  They shouldn't exist because that content should be free.  SWTOR got that part right.

Then by your own words SWTOR is not free to play. You can't do operations, you have to buy access to flashpoints more then a few times a week...and warzones. Don't you have to buy daily quest hubs in SWTOR? You even have to buy access to space missions! I agree that with LOTRO you need to pay a sub to enjoy the game, but you need to do it in SWTOR as well. The story is not that compelling in general for most class stories, and even the good ones don't compare to any single player RPG Bioware has ever made. 

But let's not compare SWTOR to LOTRO, lets compare it to another game that is currently free. Planetside 2, a game where you don't need to pay a cent to access all the content. Sure, there are boosters and whatnot, but the same is available in SWTOR. Thats not the argument here, wether SWTOR is P2W or not is irrelevent. The argument is wether or not SWTOR has a restrictive F2P model. The more modern F2P model is something you see in PS2. I can assure you that game is earning more money then SWTOR is. 

Not to mention that GW2 also exists. GW2 has no sub and offers just as much content, if not significantly more (we will see over the next couple of months), then SWTOR. Sure, it's B2P but that buy in is certainly getting cheaper. The buy in for SWTOR will always remain the same to access the whole game without restrictions: 15$ a month. 

Did you really just compare a game that makes hundreds of millions of dollars a month to TOR and ask why TOR can't put out that level of content?

Really?  No, I mean...REALLY?

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by superniceguy

 I play LOTRO and it definately is less restrictive than SWTOR. The thing I like about it, is that you can earn Turbine points as you play - you get awarded for playing the game. The only way to earn CC is by paying

No it's not.  In SWTOR you level to the current cap without paying any cash.  Good luck doing that in LOTRO, just the vanilla level cap, just by questing.  You'll need to grind a LOT of mobs and deeds.  That's VERY restrictive in my book.

 

I don't think you can call an MMO F2P if it doesn't give you the released zones and quests for free.  There shouldn't be anything in an MMO store for unlocking quests to get you to the release level cap.  They shouldn't exist because that content should be free.  SWTOR got that part right.

Then by your own words SWTOR is not free to play. You can't do operations, you have to buy access to flashpoints more then a few times a week...and warzones. Don't you have to buy daily quest hubs in SWTOR? You even have to buy access to space missions! I agree that with LOTRO you need to pay a sub to enjoy the game, but you need to do it in SWTOR as well. The story is not that compelling in general for most class stories, and even the good ones don't compare to any single player RPG Bioware has ever made. 

But let's not compare SWTOR to LOTRO, lets compare it to another game that is currently free. Planetside 2, a game where you don't need to pay a cent to access all the content. Sure, there are boosters and whatnot, but the same is available in SWTOR. Thats not the argument here, wether SWTOR is P2W or not is irrelevent. The argument is wether or not SWTOR has a restrictive F2P model. The more modern F2P model is something you see in PS2. I can assure you that game is earning more money then SWTOR is. 

Not to mention that GW2 also exists. GW2 has no sub and offers just as much content, if not significantly more (we will see over the next couple of months), then SWTOR. Sure, it's B2P but that buy in is certainly getting cheaper. The buy in for SWTOR will always remain the same to access the whole game without restrictions: 15$ a month. 

1) SWTOR is not F2P, is a P2P MMO with a free to play option.

2) GW2 is B2P and the population drop of active players was huge compared with swtor after 3 months, even now.

2) The F2P model on SWTOR is a success, that is out of discussion, they are earning new players, new subs and more money, so why they will change?. 

4)GW2 more content than SWTOR?, just no. 

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by superniceguy

 I play LOTRO and it definately is less restrictive than SWTOR. The thing I like about it, is that you can earn Turbine points as you play - you get awarded for playing the game. The only way to earn CC is by paying

No it's not.  In SWTOR you level to the current cap without paying any cash.  Good luck doing that in LOTRO, just the vanilla level cap, just by questing.  You'll need to grind a LOT of mobs and deeds.  That's VERY restrictive in my book.

 

I don't think you can call an MMO F2P if it doesn't give you the released zones and quests for free.  There shouldn't be anything in an MMO store for unlocking quests to get you to the release level cap.  They shouldn't exist because that content should be free.  SWTOR got that part right.

Then by your own words SWTOR is not free to play. You can't do operations, you have to buy access to flashpoints more then a few times a week...and warzones. Don't you have to buy daily quest hubs in SWTOR? You even have to buy access to space missions! I agree that with LOTRO you need to pay a sub to enjoy the game, but you need to do it in SWTOR as well. The story is not that compelling in general for most class stories, and even the good ones don't compare to any single player RPG Bioware has ever made. 

Where did I say instances should be free to the level cap?  I said quests and by that I meant world quests in the zones.  In SWTOR you can reach the vanilla cap and no one ever has to pay a cent to hit the vanilla level cap.  In LOTRO they have zone unlocks on the way to the vanilla cap.  Got it?

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

Also mentioned in Hickmans letter....SAME SEX MARRIAGE(to an npc) is being added to the game.

This is another reason  why I will  never play the game.

Finally...they're patching in teh ghey.  I wonder if my BH will be able to romance Blizz?

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by superniceguy

 I play LOTRO and it definately is less restrictive than SWTOR. The thing I like about it, is that you can earn Turbine points as you play - you get awarded for playing the game. The only way to earn CC is by paying

No it's not.  In SWTOR you level to the current cap without paying any cash.  Good luck doing that in LOTRO, just the vanilla level cap, just by questing.  You'll need to grind a LOT of mobs and deeds.  That's VERY restrictive in my book.

 

I don't think you can call an MMO F2P if it doesn't give you the released zones and quests for free.  There shouldn't be anything in an MMO store for unlocking quests to get you to the release level cap.  They shouldn't exist because that content should be free.  SWTOR got that part right.

Then by your own words SWTOR is not free to play. You can't do operations, you have to buy access to flashpoints more then a few times a week...and warzones. Don't you have to buy daily quest hubs in SWTOR? You even have to buy access to space missions! I agree that with LOTRO you need to pay a sub to enjoy the game, but you need to do it in SWTOR as well. The story is not that compelling in general for most class stories, and even the good ones don't compare to any single player RPG Bioware has ever made. 

But let's not compare SWTOR to LOTRO, lets compare it to another game that is currently free. Planetside 2, a game where you don't need to pay a cent to access all the content. Sure, there are boosters and whatnot, but the same is available in SWTOR. Thats not the argument here, wether SWTOR is P2W or not is irrelevent. The argument is wether or not SWTOR has a restrictive F2P model. The more modern F2P model is something you see in PS2. I can assure you that game is earning more money then SWTOR is. 

Not to mention that GW2 also exists. GW2 has no sub and offers just as much content, if not significantly more (we will see over the next couple of months), then SWTOR. Sure, it's B2P but that buy in is certainly getting cheaper. The buy in for SWTOR will always remain the same to access the whole game without restrictions: 15$ a month. 

1) SWTOR is not F2P, is a P2P MMO with a free to play option.

2) GW2 is B2P and the population drop of active players was huge compared with swtor after 3 months, even now.

2) The F2P model on SWTOR is a success, that is out of discussion, they are earning new players, new subs and more money, so why they will change?. 

4)GW2 more content than SWTOR?, just no. 

 

 

1. It's a P2P MMO with a free trial to 50.

2. Population might've dropped off, but not to the extent that SWTOR did. No, please don't reference xfire numbers. kthnx. :)

3. It's a SHORT TERM success. We will see what happens after Makeb. :) For now, I will acknowledge that it was a success....for now.

4. If the argument is that GW2 has less content as of now in comparison to SWTOR? I'd agree. However, in the 5 month impasse that SWTOR had, GW2 has more content in the 5-6 months than SWTOR did in it's 5-6 months in. I would say GW2 is going at a rate where in about a year in, It'll have more content than SWTOR has added in 2 years time.