| 211 posts found | |
|---|---|
|
1/20/13 2:10:49 PM#141
Originally posted by Loktofeit On that note, are you from the past and not yet aware of what you wrote? ‘[...] that no computer can or will ever conceive of.’ — Loktofeit |
|
|
ecla2
Apprentice Member
Joined: 1/18/13
You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. |
1/20/13 9:04:35 PM#142
Originally posted by Merilirem
Good topic :) This question is possibly what might set a MMORPG game apart from a CRPG game. In the latter, yes .. you really need to fight it. The game plays out in a linear way .. even the more ambitious titles that give you detailed branches still funnel you to the same endgame cluster. You fight the dragon, or the game just doesn't end. In the former, well .. why can't the sky be the limit? Do MMOs have an ending? No? If not, then you an unravel that all the way - they don't really have middles, or beginnings either. Answers: nope, MMOs sort of do have endings, and "stuff to get through" to get there. Games where you do a lot of sitting around (and that's okay) may not sell very well .. that's the bottom line.
Aside: Of course, "no fighting the dragon" has been part of MMOs for a long time. It is basically what you are doing in an MMO when you choose not to do/participate in: - raids/events -- world bosses --- instances/dungeons that are only available at certain times of the day ------ etc You don't have to do these things. You miss out on the xp/rewards etc. of course :) The option to not "fight the dragon" is out there ... but for those who want to really cut the ties to that kind of thing then the real trick is to play a game where you can still progress your toon (and have fun) while not "fighting it". Gooood luck :) Overly-pretentious verbose narcissistic verbiage goes here |
|
Loktofeit
 Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/20/13 10:08:50 PM#143
Originally posted by Saerain Because I am speaking in the present. Unless you know of a special supercomputer somewhere that does it. No current computer will ever be able to identify 'the correct value for players' because of the crazy factors that people will add into their buying decisions. If there was a computer that could figure those things out, you wouldn't need marketing departments. filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
|
1/20/13 10:16:08 PM#144
This would be a refreshing change of pace from the Action-Adventure style that MMO's have adopted.
|
|
|
Merilirem
Novice Member
Joined: 1/01/13
Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you. |
Originally posted by ecla2 playing a game in such a way as to avoid what the makers are focusing on will only ever end in frustration, for me atleast. I want a game where everything is made with equivalently equal priority. A game where your ability to fight is not paramount to advancement. One where combat levels have no bearing on the ability to craft or explore. I simply don't think we still need all the old school mechanics that have brought us this far. They worked but are decades old and should advanced in some manner. In no way do I support a game where everyone sits around doing nothing. That's what we do now anyway. If I want to mess around I'd go play second life or something. I'm only interested in the notion offreedom. The freedom to chose whether or not to fight the dragon. The freedom to run away and hide behind something. In a real virtual world people would be doing all sorts of things. Just like in real life, but with more pixies and light sabers. This post is not meant to sound snippy or arrogant, it's kinda early here is all and I'm bored.
Also if I had my way, which I'm working on, I would make the damn dragon come get you if you ignored it for too long. Let it wreck up the place until something kills it. Maybe an epic npc? If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human? Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer? If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world? |
|
1/22/13 1:06:48 PM#146
Originally posted by NOS44 Why is it sad? It is in human instinct. Why do you think violence focused entertainment is so popular? It is just human nature. "Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?" .. because that is not fun for me. Because i would much rather be the warrior. That boils down to personal preferences. If 99% of the players want to be warriors, and only 1% want to be the blacksmith .. then what do you think the devs are going to make? A warrior game, or a blacksmith game? |
|
|
1/22/13 4:56:50 PM#147
Originally posted by nariusseldon Lets say that each "server/shard" has 10,000 players. Your theory would mean that out of those, 100 players want to play a Blacksmith. Wouldn't it be a better game if the warriors could deal with other players for their gear? Wouldn't it be a better game if all the Blacksmiths and all the Bowyers and all the rest of the non-warriors had direct dealings with those pure warrior players?
Once upon a time.... |
|
|
Merilirem
Novice Member
Joined: 1/01/13
Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you. |
Originally posted by Amaranthar Main point is that a fair enough number of players are interested in a noncombatant profession. Whether they fight as well is personalpreference, but forcing everyone to fight is like some kind of overdone conscription, drafting all the players by default. An npc merchant can never be as interesting or useful as a crafter or trader. Having rare materials in the game that require luck or prowess to attain and then taking them to a player to make you gear that only a handful of players can own thanks to a limited supply seems much more interesting than grinding points in PVp or something until you can buy a limitless item everyone else can have if they put in the time. It's the personal touch. Just because 99% of the games we play are combat, it doesn't mean we want to do it. The game I would play is one where we get so lost in the world we forget all the stats and guides. If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human? Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer? If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world? |
|
1/22/13 6:25:43 PM#149
Originally posted by Merilirem I especially agree with that last sentence. But even though most gamers want to primarily fight, in games that have trades skills almost every player has a crafter. And most gamers want that option as a secondary character. Making the true "next generation" MMO is going to have to have a much deeper social aspect inside of the game play. (Notice how I had to say that? Too many Devs think we mean FaceBook, fer cryin' out loud.) And having that deeper social game play includes trade and craft skills, as well as building and organized social meaning in a "worldly"context, complete with player involved politicking and deal making. Once upon a time.... |
|
|
Merilirem
Novice Member
Joined: 1/01/13
Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you. |
Originally posted by Amaranthar Your definitely right about in game social aspects being vital. The only way I can see of encouraging players to be more involved with eachother is to make it a part of the game. I don't mean add a friend get a prize or anything so silly. I just mean taking away certain privileges that players have taken for granted, but which unintentionally help them ignore one another. The game itself would have to keep its secrets and stop holding their hands every step. The goal being to encourage word of mouth and gossip in game. Many will of course post walkthroughs and such on wiki and other sites, but you can't stop that afterall. I just think a game with more mystery would help players rely on each other to figure it out. I have idea's but the whole endeavor is rather difficult, my opinion may be completely opposite to others. I just know its not an easy fix kinda problem. Also supporting the many choices players make with things like player owned stalls, shops etc. make it so you can't just click some buttons and find what you want. Convienience can spoil people afterall. If they want to play they should have to play. If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human? Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer? If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world? |
|
1/23/13 2:43:09 PM#151
Originally posted by Amaranthar Not necessarily. Dealing with other players take time and energy. If the 9900 players just want to focus on fighting and progression, it is easier to get better items from drops and trading on AH, then spending time negotiating with real players. Plus, it is a matter of resource allocation. To make a good blacksmithing system to please those 100 players, how much do you have to spend? Certainly spending just 1% of the resources probably won't be doing a very good job. Can a dev justify spending a significanat amount when only 1% is enjoying the system?
|
|
|
1/23/13 2:47:54 PM#152
Originally posted by Merilirem. Just because 99% of the games we play are combat, it doesn't mean we want to do it. The game I would play is one where we get so lost in the world we forget all the stats and guides. Who are "we"? I get that you may not want to do it .. but the market certainly like combat. It is not like there are no alternatives .. but combat heavy game is big sellers (do you really need me to tell you?) And while you want to forget stats and guides, stats and guides are very popular. There are people who spend day & night theorycrafting game mechanics. We are talking about minute details like people will test proc coefficients in Diablo 3, and know exactly how many ticks a DOT will go off for what value of attack speed. Ditto in games like WOW where there is optimization software to help you pick gear, and do gods know what. And to many (including me) .. that is fun. When i consider buying a piece of gear in D3, i will have the ranges of random stats in front of me, so i will know if this particular one has a good draw or not .. and hence if i get my money worth. I also run them through DPS and EPH (effect health) calculators.This kind of meta-game is a big part of the fun for me. |
|
|
Merilirem
Novice Member
Joined: 1/01/13
Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you. |
Originally posted by nariusseldon I'm not trying to say your games are bad, they are just different to what I and others would like. Personally I will always go into heavy combat sitauations. I just don't like that we have no choice, no other way to spend our virtual lives that isn't just some silly distraction which means nothing. When I say WE I'm not really talking about anyone, it's more of a general we the players comment. Alot of the time whether it's games or any aspect of our existence, people will be unable to tell if they would enjoy something without trying it. Many will find something they never thought of as fun to be the best path for them. Without the ability to try new things, how can anyone be sure of anything? Is a game which caters to all kinds of players at once really such an impossible notion to you? If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human? Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer? If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world? |
|
1/25/13 1:56:18 PM#154
Originally posted by Merilirem It is fair as long as you acknowledge you are not talking about everyone. And to the point "Without the ability to try new things, how can anyone be sure of anything?" .. there are plenty of other games. SIngalong, dancing, sports .... you named it. The fact that combat centric games outsell all of them tell you something. Heck, you can even play a house decorator in SIMS. And that games sold millions. So the point is this .. people have choices, and they have tried all sort of different games, but in the end, combat and violence sells .. and that is whay a large portion (but not all) of the market is focused on that. Supply and demand, it is that simple. |
|
|
1/25/13 4:08:27 PM#155
Originally posted by nariusseldon I think we are having that nonsensical numbers argument again... There are far more people interested in non combat things than 1% Moreover you actually need those people, even if you think you dont, from the guys that write guides and test every system trough the powergamers like say kripp or athene in d3 that are predominantly goal oriented (beating the game, finding the perfect build) to the overt(h)inkers that will bash your game whenever and wherever for being too simple and too shallow. That is the thing that makes the difference between a free lineage2 based stock mmo (i have seen far too many lately, like Shaiya or Aika) that gets hailed as "the best free mmo of the year" and a real product that lasts for more than few months and with more than 2k players. Flame on! :) |
|
|
Merilirem
Novice Member
Joined: 1/01/13
Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you. |
Originally posted by nariusseldon 2 points 1, Their is a huge difference between a game that is something and a game that allows something. A pure combat game or a pure dancing game are a whole different experience to a game with dancing and fighting. Nothing wrong with specialization, some just find it a little simple and shallow. 2, alot of the pure games are below my personally level of approval anyway, not as a game but as a pure game. This isn't really the p to start that discussion though. Btw shallow isn't a bad thing, classic Mario is awesome. If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human? Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer? If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world? |
|
Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/28/13 5:54:11 PM#157
Originally posted by Merilirem Kinda like how having 300 Online or Footloose Online is a whole different experience from West Side Story Online. Yeah, you can have a decent soundtrack in 3-O or play chicken with tractors in FLO, but does it really compare to being able to choose within the same game between a knife fight and singing about Maria?
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
|
Merilirem
Novice Member
Joined: 1/01/13
Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you. |
Originally posted by Loktofeit More than anything it is about enjoying a realistic experience. Following a story as a character someone else made or enjoying yourself while you rip through repeating notions and battles is fine, but they are only aspects of what gaming can be. Gaming is not just frivolous or something to relax with, nor is it something that needs to be difficult. Games are a natural part of life for many, they can allow us to learn and grow as we play. Just as a kitten plays to sharpen its hunting skills so can we stimulate our natures through play. Allowing growth through virtual experience in a mentally interesting world is far more enjoyable than playing to pass time. The difference between thinking about a movie and simply seeing it. Adding 1 or 2 new aspects is a good start on our journey to make a truly emmersive experience but it should not be the end. If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human? Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer? If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world? |
|
xpowderx
 Advanced Member
Joined: 10/09/05
Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. |
2/11/13 2:17:08 AM#159
Man, I miss Star Wars Galaxies pre-cu >.<
Success is your proof; |
|
2/11/13 3:23:02 AM#160
Vanguard has a system where you could solve quests through Crafting or Diplomacy. Yes, for real. It had its flaws but worked quite well. The MMO genre is littered with good ideas we never see again, that was one of them. |
|
Friends: vgchartz.com
Not a member? You can still subscribe to our newsletters and daily updates here!
May 19, 2013 6:19 PM
- Page Created in 0.671 seconds -
