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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do I really need to be leet?

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211 posts found
  Raithe-Nor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 322

1/19/13 2:03:03 PM#121
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Who cares what genre the games are in if they are fun.

If you are so hung up on what they are called, try to get the whole industry change MMO to something else. When you are successful, i will use the new term.

If STO, DCUO, PS2, DDO ... oh and the upcoming Marvel Heroes are still in the MMO genre, i am playing MMOs.

And who says MMO has no co-op and SP gameplay? I am playing STO mission like a SP game last night.

When the current MMO industry starts being sustainably successful, you have an argument.

The very fact that nomenclature is being used as a diversion forecasts the inevitable fail of a development strategy.  People don't like being fooled, especially in their recreational activities.  It's best to call a spade a spade, and calling 8-player instanced combat an "MMO' defies every rule of nomenclature that exists.

Plus, we all know that as soon as someone tries to set themself apart and claim to be "old-style" massively-multiplayer, the parasites are just bright enough to recognize the name change and show up there, regardless.

It really isn't about the name of the genre.  It's that some players have found a way to feed off from other people not even playing their same game.  Until the parasites are dealt with, the hosts will never have a home.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/19/13 2:17:47 PM#122

I do have a question regarding the op's sig:

"If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?"

When you can do it better, feel free to step up. Perhaps someone will even pay you to do so.

Until then, get cause and effect placed properly. You aren't "let"ting him design your world. You are, in fact, paying for the privledge of enjoying his.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Raithe-Nor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 322

1/19/13 2:34:10 PM#123
Originally posted by Icewhite

When you can do it better, feel free to step up. Perhaps someone will even pay you to do so.  Until then, get cause and effect placed properly. You aren't "let"ting him design your world. You are, in fact, paying for the privledge of enjoying his.

As players, we are in a general sense, the investors of it all.  Some projects are currently being entirely funded by player dollars before the game is even released.  It's called kick-starting.

So your comment is off-base for at least four different reasons:

1) The comment was targetted towards a developer audience, not an audience composed of himself (very few comments are ever self-intended)

2) The point was mostly that software programming expertise does not necessarily equate to game design expertise.  The point is unecessary because very few game development companies actually have programmers designing their game.  They generally have separate game design and tech development departments.  The sad part is that the programmers would probably do a better job in the vast majority of current cases (meaning the game design field has been infiltrated by the most incompetent of all potential employees).

3) As players of what should have been a player-driven game genre, designing our own worlds should have been part of the package.  It's called DM-ing, or modding, depending on the setup.

4) Some MMOs are currently free, so we aren't paying anyone and they aren't getting reimbursement.  Who develops what still has an impact on what enjoyment is derived.

I do admit that your unintelligible trolling is some of the more eloquent I've seen.

  Amaranthar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

1/19/13 2:35:53 PM#124
Originally posted by Icewhite

I do have a question regarding the op's sig:

"If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?"

When you can do it better, feel free to step up. Perhaps someone will even pay you to do so.

Until then, get cause and effect placed properly. You aren't "let"ting him design your world. You are, in fact, paying for the privledge of enjoying his.

Privilege? You mean to say that if I go to McD's and buy a burger it's my privilege to pay for it? Even if the burger they give me turns out to be pink slime?  Is it my privilege to pay for that too?

Once upon a time....

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/19/13 2:47:52 PM#125
Originally posted by Amaranthar

Privilege? You mean to say that if I go to McD's and buy a burger it's my privilege to pay for it? Even if the burger they give me turns out to be pink slime?  Is it my privilege to pay for that too?

Yep. You're payihg for it, you must desire it. If you could make your own that was more delicious, why are you not doing so?

Not quite how business works. They make a product. If you want it, you pay for it. If you don't, then...don't.

Telling the drug dealer how awful his drugs are while holding out the cash for more with shaking hands doesn't really convince much of anyone.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Raithe-Nor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 322

1/19/13 3:04:03 PM#126
Originally posted by Icewhite

Not quite how business works. They make a product. If you want it, you pay for it. If you don't, then...don't.

We don't, and they go out of business.  It's an old story in the MMO industry.

And it's not the only way things work.  Not even close.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/19/13 3:08:22 PM#127
Originally posted by Raithe-Nor
Originally posted by Icewhite

Not quite how business works. They make a product. If you want it, you pay for it. If you don't, then...don't.

We don't, and they go out of business.  It's an old story in the MMO industry.

And it's not the only way things work.  Not even close.

How is it inaccurate? Were armed gunmen waiting at the game store to force your last purchase or something?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Raithe-Nor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 322

1/19/13 3:21:02 PM#128
Originally posted by Icewhite

How is it inaccurate? Were armed gunmen waiting at the game store to force your last purchase or something?

Well, limiting myself to software:

1) Some software is pre-funded, then released into the public domain or under public license.

2) Some software is subcription-based, meaning you continually pay for a product or not, depending on how it meets your expectations.  The software may evolve from something you were happy to pay for in the beginning to something you are not happy paying for.  Customer retention and brand loyalty are real phenomena that development companies should at least pay attention to.

3) Some software is modifiable, allows mods.  The players are given the tools to design their own applications.

4) Some software is created entirely through contributions from open-source participants.  Sourceforge and the like...

The belief that software is only created and supported by large companies who market based on demographics and profit alone is a position of severe ignorance.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/19/13 3:31:15 PM#129
Originally posted by Raithe-Nor
Originally posted by Icewhite

How is it inaccurate? Were armed gunmen waiting at the game store to force your last purchase or something?

Well, limiting myself to software:

1) Some software is pre-funded, then released into the public domain or under public license.

2) Some software is subcription-based, meaning you continually pay for a product or not, depending on how it meets your expectations.  The software may evolve from something you were happy to pay for in the beginning to something you are not happy paying for.  Customer retention and brand loyalty are real phenomena that development companies should at least pay attention too.

3) Some software is modifiable, allows mods.  The players are given the tools to design their own applications.

4) Some software is created entirely through contributions from open-source participants.  Sourceforge and the like...

The belief that software is only created and supported by large companies who market based on demographics and profit alone is a position of severe ignorance.

I don't see a single thing in the statements above that would lead anyone to believe that taking your patronage elsewhere wouldn't be casting a vote against, regardless of the size of company. Herring colored red?

But if you don't take your patronage elsewhere, while indulging in nonstop forum yackyack, you just might win a lifetime futile rage award.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  NOS44

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/11
Posts: 6

1/19/13 3:40:40 PM#130

@OP, Yes isn't it sad when destruction is the only path to progression.  Why not be a blacksmith that forges the best steel available to warriors?  Or maybe be the best alchemist in the region that can concoct the potions needed for a political coup's success?  Or maybe you are the best scout of a remote area that can provide escort through the wilds?  I'm thinking of the Sherpas of Everest in the last scenario.   

The point is why not play an important role in the world without having to be the soldier or the hero or the king?  Surely there are more that aspire to this role in mmos.  If anyone knows of any such game, please broadcast it.

  Beatnik59

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2235

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

1/19/13 4:07:21 PM#131
Originally posted by Raithe-Nor
Originally posted by Icewhite

Not quite how business works. They make a product. If you want it, you pay for it. If you don't, then...don't.

We don't, and they go out of business.  It's an old story in the MMO industry.

And it's not the only way things work.  Not even close.

Sometimes.

In this wacky business, I agree.  Sometimes we don't, and they go out of business.

But sometimes we don't, and they remain in business (SWG's NGE).

And there are some instances where we do, and they still go out of business (City of Heroes).

But the one thing we never seem to talk about is how important it is that we, by paying, do buy what we like, and we, by paying should remain "in business."  Because the "business" I'm referring to is the business of players to enjoy the things they buy and pay for.  Which, to me, is only common sense.

Except in this hobby, where we seem to care more about our publishers' money making schemes than the business of our fellow gamers to enjoy the things they enjoy.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Smoey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/05
Posts: 554

1/19/13 4:10:43 PM#132

Crafting / Resource gathering!

(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')

  nerbon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 33

1/19/13 4:15:21 PM#133
Originally posted by Merilirem

Ahem, ----------- Just because a dragon attacks the town, do I really need to fight it? Is fighting really the only path for mmorpgs? Can I not play a smith or simply prance about with my lute singing everyone else's praises? I just have to wonder why it is that I personally have to fight, to save the world, cant someone else do it? And why can't we decide the worlds not worth saving, to side with whatever master of darkness is currently doomed to fall at the hands of the "heroes". Evil never wins, because winners are always just, not because evil always loses. Just because I live in a fantasy world full of dangers, do I have to be someone special, can't I just be some guy who did what he felt like. Even if I had the skills, weapons or could simply smash those werewolves to death with my fists, does it really fall to me...am I an individual, a person, or am I a train...? Do you think the same?

 

I would like to make it clear that antihero is supposed to mean opposition, as in opposed to the hero. Slight wording mistake on my part. This thread simply wants to know how people would like to play. Your vote in no way says you only wish to play a single role, it's just the path you most enjoy. All of the above was not an answer for the sake of defining more specific interests, not because it's not a valid way to enjoy virtual life. Ask as many questions as you wish.

 

The following thread was made in response to questions raised in this one that were not entirely on topic. Please peruse at your leisure.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/374696/page/1

 

duuude theris no points in playing games without to be leet well hacking getting 100k pc gear etc....is all about to be leet
  nerbon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 33

1/19/13 4:17:29 PM#134
Originally posted by Smoey

Crafting / Resource gathering!

 

well crafting fat lazy dudes phun try crafting at your home...im sure you will find alotsa things to craft
  Orthus.Aku

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 12

1/19/13 6:37:25 PM#135

Originally posted by nerbon

well crafting fat lazy dudes phun try crafting at your home...im sure you will find alotsa things to craft

 

What? Hopefully I am not the only one confused on what this post means?

  Marcelino

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/04
Posts: 117

Can I have your stuffz....???

1/19/13 9:46:28 PM#136

Why is there no option for being a healer of some sort? I'd like to Add an option to that list of choices

  • Doctor, healer of wounds. Clensing players of evil spirits and curse and disease. Proving medical assistant to all those in need.
  User Deleted
1/19/13 9:53:17 PM#137
Wow, before I voted for the bottom most option, I was thinking that I would be in the minority by far. Apparently not.
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/19/13 9:58:07 PM#138

I didnt pick from the list because I have done more than a few of them before.

In SWG I had a character that was pure crafter and only killed if I had to when doing harvest runs, ran a business out of my home.

In LoTRo I basically stood in Bree most of the time playing music or farming as a hobbit.

Did the whole "soldier" thing in more than a few games like UO, DaoC.

Had a Character in Asherons Call that I would just explore with and one that was the epic hero type.

Best story I have is a guildie of mine that played World of Warcraft for the better part of 4 years that didnt do ANYTHING but got drunk in Ogrimmar and the starter zones....never hit level 40.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Merilirem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/01/13
Posts: 77

Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you.

 
OP  1/20/13 2:03:49 PM#139
Originally posted by Marcelino

Why is there no option for being a healer of some sort? I'd like to Add an option to that list of choices

  • Doctor, healer of wounds. Clensing players of evil spirits and curse and disease. Proving medical assistant to all those in need.

I forgot. Sorry it's such a simple reason but I honestly didn't put much effort into this thread. I stand by everything I said, I just could have said it better or missed a few points. What's funny is that I always played the healer. I just didn't give it much thought I guess cuz the healer end up killing stuff anyway. It's like "woot I killed 10000 orcs and leveled up my ability to heal people...". 

If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  Merilirem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/01/13
Posts: 77

Do not fear the unknown, for it does not fear you.

 
OP  1/20/13 2:09:25 PM#140
Originally posted by jtcgs

I didnt pick from the list because I have done more than a few of them before.

In SWG I had a character that was pure crafter and only killed if I had to when doing harvest runs, ran a business out of my home.

In LoTRo I basically stood in Bree most of the time playing music or farming as a hobbit.

Did the whole "soldier" thing in more than a few games like UO, DaoC.

Had a Character in Asherons Call that I would just explore with and one that was the epic hero type.

Best story I have is a guildie of mine that played World of Warcraft for the better part of 4 years that didnt do ANYTHING but got drunk in Ogrimmar and the starter zones....never hit level 40.

I don't quite understand how having done them makes a difference. It wasn't what would you want to do, but can't. It was what do you enjoy the most. I understand you may have made a slight mistake due to the wording, but that was just cuz they don't really cater to quite a few options. So I had to put in stuff that doesn't exist. Even if some options are possible, they are far from the point of the game. Having to murder a fortress of soldiers to learn more sewing is just plain strange. Or am I the strange one lol?Oh noes a 

double post

!!!!!

If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

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