Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by Marirranya
i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

 

And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

Originally posted by PieRad

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by Marirranya
i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

 

And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

There actually in agreement. The first person said that he tries to do his best and the second person agreed that is what everyone should strive for. I dont know why though, the wording somehow makes it sound sarcastic, but I doubt it was meant that way.

If I had to make a choice I would become just a simple farmer on a small homestead. Maybe part of a large community nearby or if a game every allows me. Be a random nobody in a huge medival army. Just one guys among 100s or 1000s of other random nobodies. No name hovering above my head, no special skills or whatever and if my character dies, then well he is dead. 

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by nariusseldon

I don't play games to be a blacksmith. In terms of gameplay experience, i have never seen any crafting or singing, as fun (for me) as good combat mechanics.

The other types of mechanics i like is stealth.

So .. no .. i don't think like the OP .. and i like combat centric games.

 

I don't see how other people being a blacksmith or a bard has anything to do with the combat system. Being a blacksmith in a world with no real fighting would be a complete bore, like cooking steak in a country of vegans. Even traveling around is more fun for me at least when I have to watch my step incase some unexpected danger comes out of the bushes. The ideal game in my mind is simply one where people can do as they wish. The needed warriors would defend the towns and guard the bards or other travelers, while those with the ability would fight their way into the deepest reaches of the world, with completely passive partners like healer types and once again an amusing bard or others who have reason to be there. Sneaking around an underground city on your own would be dangerous without battle skills, but it should be allowed. I simply want the many aspects that are so underdeveloped or even ignored completely to be as worked at as the combat systems. I understand it does have the danger of ending as a jack of all trades master of none game in which no one gets what they want, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Making everyone a place in the world requires an army of coders, insight, money and determined passion, but would it not be worth it all to create something truly wonderful? Also I in no way think the combat systems we have at the moment are acceptable. Some are better then others by a lot, but still lack that special feeling, though that's a whole difference discussion that isnt ready to be had yet. Time and technology will help us do many things, but it's up to us to do them.

This is why a skill based system works so much better than level-based.   Combat is simply a skill like any other -- you can have it or not.

Originally posted by winter

 OP your thread title is totally inaccurate and dose not do your post justice.

 If the question is do you have to be leet and you have to ask a bunch of strangers to make up your mind then probably yes.

 If however your post as you more accurately state is weither MMos should have different paths and not just the solo heroic save the world role frequently forced on players then I'd also have to say yes.

   Good post, terrible thread title. One shows alot of thought the other ... well not so much so

You could be a leet farmer!  :)

Originally posted by Ortwig

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by nariusseldon

I don't play games to be a blacksmith. In terms of gameplay experience, i have never seen any crafting or singing, as fun (for me) as good combat mechanics.

The other types of mechanics i like is stealth.

So .. no .. i don't think like the OP .. and i like combat centric games.

 

I don't see how other people being a blacksmith or a bard has anything to do with the combat system. Being a blacksmith in a world with no real fighting would be a complete bore, like cooking steak in a country of vegans. Even traveling around is more fun for me at least when I have to watch my step incase some unexpected danger comes out of the bushes. The ideal game in my mind is simply one where people can do as they wish. The needed warriors would defend the towns and guard the bards or other travelers, while those with the ability would fight their way into the deepest reaches of the world, with completely passive partners like healer types and once again an amusing bard or others who have reason to be there. Sneaking around an underground city on your own would be dangerous without battle skills, but it should be allowed. I simply want the many aspects that are so underdeveloped or even ignored completely to be as worked at as the combat systems. I understand it does have the danger of ending as a jack of all trades master of none game in which no one gets what they want, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Making everyone a place in the world requires an army of coders, insight, money and determined passion, but would it not be worth it all to create something truly wonderful? Also I in no way think the combat systems we have at the moment are acceptable. Some are better then others by a lot, but still lack that special feeling, though that's a whole difference discussion that isnt ready to be had yet. Time and technology will help us do many things, but it's up to us to do them.

This is why a skill based system works so much better than level-based.   Combat is simply a skill like any other -- you can have it or not.

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by PieRad

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by Marirranya
i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

 

And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

There actually in agreement. The first person said that he tries to do his best and the second person agreed that is what everyone should strive for. I dont know why though, the wording somehow makes it sound sarcastic, but I doubt it was meant that way.

 

If I had to make a choice I would become just a simple farmer on a small homestead. Maybe part of a large community nearby or if a game every allows me. Be a random nobody in a huge medival army. Just one guys among 100s or 1000s of other random nobodies. No name hovering above my head, no special skills or whatever and if my character dies, then well he is dead. 

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by PieRad

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by Marirranya
i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

 

And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

There actually in agreement. The first person said that he tries to do his best and the second person agreed that is what everyone should strive for. I dont know why though, the wording somehow makes it sound sarcastic, but I doubt it was meant that way.

 

If I had to make a choice I would become just a simple farmer on a small homestead. Maybe part of a large community nearby or if a game every allows me. Be a random nobody in a huge medival army. Just one guys among 100s or 1000s of other random nobodies. No name hovering above my head, no special skills or whatever and if my character dies, then well he is dead. 

There is a game for that .. farmville.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by PieRad

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by Marirranya
i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

 

And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

There actually in agreement. The first person said that he tries to do his best and the second person agreed that is what everyone should strive for. I dont know why though, the wording somehow makes it sound sarcastic, but I doubt it was meant that way.

 

If I had to make a choice I would become just a simple farmer on a small homestead. Maybe part of a large community nearby or if a game every allows me. Be a random nobody in a huge medival army. Just one guys among 100s or 1000s of other random nobodies. No name hovering above my head, no special skills or whatever and if my character dies, then well he is dead. 

There is a game for that .. farmville.

or UO

or Mabinogi

Creativity is what I love the best in everything as their should always be vast choices to pick from, and always have a unique touch to each certain skill out there. I love to become a constructor and build the most fancy looking building or to make simple homes for certain towns. I want to become a blacksmith and develop a unique weapon that no one ever made before that is both powerful and beautiful. I wish to write my own music and play a unique toon that other players would like and spread the word about it.

Crerativity is what make the world turns everyday, and help develop successfully and unsuccessful goods. The will to learn is what help level up your own talents.

This is currently my biggest problem with the genre. We have virtual worlds to play in, but they design them so that EVERYTHING revolves around combat. I'd like for non-combat to be more profitable.

While it's possible to focus on non-combat stuff, Eve is really the only game that makes it somewhat viable. They all suffer from the same problem where the final product sells for less than the base materials, due to the top-end inflation. I wish there was an easy way to fix that.

Originally posted by dreamscaper

This is currently my biggest problem with the genre. We have virtual worlds to play in, but they design them so that EVERYTHING revolves around combat. I'd like for non-combat to be more profitable.

 

While it's possible to focus on non-combat stuff, Eve is really the only game that makes it somewhat viable. They all suffer from the same problem where the final product sells for less than the base materials, due to the top-end inflation. I wish there was an easy way to fix that.

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by dreamscaper

This is currently my biggest problem with the genre. We have virtual worlds to play in, but they design them so that EVERYTHING revolves around combat. I'd like for non-combat to be more profitable.

While it's possible to focus on non-combat stuff, Eve is really the only game that makes it somewhat viable. They all suffer from the same problem where the final product sells for less than the base materials, due to the top-end inflation. I wish there was an easy way to fix that.

This and indeed everything I say is only my best of thoughts on the matter. That's actually a really easy one to fix. Just make an npc shopkeep who sells materials at the correct value for players to be able to perform their crafts. Sure the miners and woodcutters would have to undercut th merchant npc to make profit, but thats not as bad as it sounds. Of course I could be missing a really huge problem with that, but as long as it's done right, with multiple vendors scattered in logical locations and some other minor tweaks to pricing from time to tim based on market research, everyone should be happy.

We murdered them and jettisoned their corpses into space for the good of the market. The 'correct value for players' in a working multi-market economy is the value determined by players, often arrived at using variables that no computer can or will ever conceive of.

Originally posted by Robokapp

most people want to be known as an elite player in their community.

 

very few make it and that's the appeal.

 

choosing not to or realising you can't are both very valid and perhaps inevitable choices.

Currently you can't choose not to be though, I think that's the OP's point; all modern MMOs basically force you to play a hero battling evil whether you really want to or not. Older MMOs actually offered ways to play and progress your character that completely ignored combat if you desired.

This kind of thing is usually part of a skill-based progression system most commonly associated with sandboxes though, which is probably why we haven't seen it in the glut of recent themeparks. Having said that FFXIV does allow you to play entirely as a crafter if you desire... and with ARR that will extend to building/modifying houses and raising chocobos.

Originally posted by Alberel

Currently you can't choose not to be though, I think that's the OP's point; all modern MMOs basically force you to play a hero battling evil whether you really want to or not.

But that's the problem with the whole discussion... They don't.

There are people in pretty much any MMO with any kind of economy, in fact quite a lot of them, whose main form of gameplay is to manipulate the AH. In the guild I ran in Rift there was a fair contingent whose main, almost entirely only, endgame activity was finding, collecting, trading, and selling artifacts. I'd be shocked if there weren't at least some players in Aion who didn't enjoy being essentially shopkeepers. A couple of my friends playing WoW right now are focused entirely on the WoWkemon mini-game, collecting, leveling, trading, and selling mini-pets -- it's suffeciently complex to keep one going just on that for months, if not longer. In Fallen Earth (granted, unlike the others not a raid-based game), at least before the crafting XP nerfs, there were people who did nothing but craft, you could easily level to endgame just by crafting. There were even clans set up to do parallel crafting and selling of more complicated and time intensive items (mounts, cars mostly).

The problem is that people around here see a combat-based/raid-based game and automatically think that getting to endgame as fast as possible, collecting the best gear possible, learning the tightest most effecient use of skills possible, and going out to save the world (albeit if you actually pay attention it's almost never the players who save the world, they just help the guy who does) is what you do. The focus on that is such that there's an inherent assumption that it's the only thing to do.

It's not.

I tend to play that way as well, but so many of the people I've played with did not that I've learned that most of these games are bigger than just the narrow view that is so depressingly common here.

Originally posted by Myria

Originally posted by Alberel

Currently you can't choose not to be though, I think that's the OP's point; all modern MMOs basically force you to play a hero battling evil whether you really want to or not.

But that's the problem with the whole discussion... They don't.

There are people in pretty much any MMO with any kind of economy, in fact quite a lot of them, whose main form of gameplay is to manipulate the AH. In the guild I ran in Rift there was a fair contingent whose main, almost entirely only, endgame activity was finding, collecting, trading, and selling artifacts. I'd be shocked if there weren't at least some players in Aion who didn't enjoy being essentially shopkeepers. A couple of my friends playing WoW right now are focused entirely on the WoWkemon mini-game, collecting, leveling, trading, and selling mini-pets -- it's suffeciently complex to keep one going just on that for months, if not longer. In Fallen Earth (granted, unlike the others not a raid-based game), at least before the crafting XP nerfs, there were people who did nothing but craft, you could easily level to endgame just by crafting. There were even clans set up to do parallel crafting and selling of more complicated and time intensive items (mounts, cars mostly).

The problem is that people around here see a combat-based/raid-based game and automatically think that getting to endgame as fast as possible, collecting the best gear possible, learning the tightest most effecient use of skills possible, and going out to save the world (albeit if you actually pay attention it's almost never the players who save the world, they just help the guy who does) is what you do. The focus on that is such that there's an inherent assumption that it's the only thing to do.

It's not.

I tend to play that way as well, but so many of the people I've played with did not that I've learned that most of these games are bigger than just the narrow view that is so depressingly common here.

You're confusing side content with main content.

Yes, you can have fun playing Pokemon in WOW for months. However, your primary role is killer of things, and that is how you got those pets.

Yes, someone can play the market endlessly. They can be a level 1 that never leaves the AH. However, they had to be a killer of things to just get to that auction house and they can't do much else in the game - including raise money and collect items to play the market - unless they spend a good amount of time as a killer of things.

They are playing what they want as a non-killer in spite of game mechanics, not because of them. That is what us 'people around here' are discussing. ;)

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by dreamscaper

This is currently my biggest problem with the genre. We have virtual worlds to play in, but they design them so that EVERYTHING revolves around combat. I'd like for non-combat to be more profitable.

While it's possible to focus on non-combat stuff, Eve is really the only game that makes it somewhat viable. They all suffer from the same problem where the final product sells for less than the base materials, due to the top-end inflation. I wish there was an easy way to fix that.

This and indeed everything I say is only my best of thoughts on the matter. That's actually a really easy one to fix. Just make an npc shopkeep who sells materials at the correct value for players to be able to perform their crafts. Sure the miners and woodcutters would have to undercut th merchant npc to make profit, but thats not as bad as it sounds. Of course I could be missing a really huge problem with that, but as long as it's done right, with multiple vendors scattered in logical locations and some other minor tweaks to pricing from time to tim based on market research, everyone should be happy.

We murdered them and jettisoned their corpses into space for the good of the market. The 'correct value for players' in a working multi-market economy is the value determined by players, often arrived at using variables that no computer can or will ever conceive of.

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Merilirem

Originally posted by dreamscaper

This is currently my biggest problem with the genre. We have virtual worlds to play in, but they design them so that EVERYTHING revolves around combat. I'd like for non-combat to be more profitable.

While it's possible to focus on non-combat stuff, Eve is really the only game that makes it somewhat viable. They all suffer from the same problem where the final product sells for less than the base materials, due to the top-end inflation. I wish there was an easy way to fix that.

This and indeed everything I say is only my best of thoughts on the matter. That's actually a really easy one to fix. Just make an npc shopkeep who sells materials at the correct value for players to be able to perform their crafts. Sure the miners and woodcutters would have to undercut th merchant npc to make profit, but thats not as bad as it sounds. Of course I could be missing a really huge problem with that, but as long as it's done right, with multiple vendors scattered in logical locations and some other minor tweaks to pricing from time to tim based on market research, everyone should be happy.

We murdered them and jettisoned their corpses into space for the good of the market. The 'correct value for players' in a working multi-market economy is the value determined by players, often arrived at using variables that no computer can or will ever conceive of.

 

Free markets are indeed a valid point. I have yet to figure out a way to completely protect the players while still allowing them to chose the prices of everything. I have however given it a shot. Failure would of course grant exp into whatever endeavor, however you could only learn so much from let's say, making a 2h sword. If you made enough it would become maxed and u would need to make something else. Entire groups of items would also share a larger but still finite exp cap, since u can only learn so much from hitting some steel. This combined with a large variety of types should mean that you can come up with the needed practice without having to spend on pricier materials until you can make enough as a smith to afford them. I also suggest a reasonable flat rate from shops and npc military outlets based on current market value data on the materials used to construct them. Paying you for your work. This only works however if the making of said items took up large amounts of time and effort, unlike now where it takes like two seconds and 3 mouse clicks. The game would also devalue items based on how many were sold, eventually stopping purchase completely beyond a certain point. The value of items it did not have would never go beyond the calculated reasonable level unless boosted by some sort of special in game event, like a war.I know we cannot fully work out the players, but math of this level is perfectly within our means. Never forget, just because it's not easy, doesn't mean it can't be done. Well that's my best for now. Tell me if I overlooked something.

You overlooked EVE.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

We murdered them and jettisoned their corpses into space for the good of the market. The 'correct value for players' in a working multi-market economy is the value determined by players, often arrived at using variables that no computer can or will ever conceive of.

You underestimate the power of future computers, they will far surpass the collective human intelligence.