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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » When did it become OK to charge $30 - $50 for a month of premium in F2P?

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194 posts found
  McGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/05
Posts: 1035

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering" -Master Yoda

1/01/13 12:02:31 PM#141
Originally posted by delete5230

Why on Earth would anyone ever even play a f2P mmo anyway. I guess I could see it if your 10 years old and dad will not give up his credit card, or a struggling collage student, all trying to play SOMETHING totally free for lack of funds.

But an mmo ?....How do you play with others ?....Eather there gimped or your gimped by not spending a penny.  You paid for a package and all others don't have the same package as you !

 

Once a game goes F2P, I drop it forever:

-  Vanguard was one of my best, but I never looked back once it went F2P. 

-  I never really gave LOTRO a real chance, I would love to now, but went F2P.  I would not touch this game with a ten foot pole now.

 

There F2P for a reasion....To suck you dry, its a last dying effort that does not last long.  We have a lot of free band wagon jumpers here just waiting for the next mmo to go F2P.   They fill up a world for about a week and the world is empty again.  As I say, I could understand collage kids or 10 year olds, but If your not in the completely no money category and THINK YOUR GONNA GET SOMETHING GOOD FOR ALMOST NOTHING YOUR NOT LEARNING A LESSON FROM ALL F2P GAMES.

How long will this cycle of thinking last before people stop bashing there heads messing around with F2P ?

You sound like you don't play any mmo that's f2p? I would like to know exactly what mmo ISN'T f2p anymore? lol

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/01/13 12:24:57 PM#142
Originally posted by worldalpha
Our approach is to make everything affordable to get as many paying customers as possible.

Or you can peddle Ferraris instead of Yugos. The coolest thing about 'free markets' is that you'll be able to find buyers at either price point.

One of the things old-timey games did a whole lot better than any modern MMO?

Customer service.  Yup, no "tickets", no two-day or multi-week waits. You could not only talk with a real, live person in game any time you wanted to; but they had time to chat with the customers too.

But a high staff to player ratio is very expensive, relatively speaking. Not going to happen in a 'MASSIVE' game, of any variety.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

1/01/13 12:43:52 PM#143
Originally posted by Czanrei

 

You sound like you don't play any mmo that's f2p? I would like to know exactly what mmo ISN'T f2p anymore? lol

WoW? EVE?

Not many MMOs but the majority of MMO players do pay a sub fee because of WoW's dominance.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7834

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/01/13 1:00:58 PM#144
Originally posted by jpnz

Not understanding the 'F2P' hate.

What's the difference between F2P and Extended Trial?

 

I think it is because 'Free to Play' is ultimately just a misleading spin... a smoke and mirrors con which a lot of people feel, in the end, betrayed by.

If this revenue model had been marketed as 'Cash Shop Play' from the start I would have a little less of an issue with it, but then it wouldn't have hooked so many in I guess.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

1/01/13 1:07:43 PM#145
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by jpnz

Not understanding the 'F2P' hate.

What's the difference between F2P and Extended Trial?

 

I think it is because 'Free to Play' is ultimately just a misleading spin... a smoke and mirrors con which a lot of people feel, in the end, betrayed by.

If this revenue model had been marketed as 'Cash Shop Play' from the start I would have a little less of an issue with it, but then it wouldn't have hooked so many in I guess.

Meh, if someone feels 'betrayed' cause they didn't know what they were playing / paying, that's... dumb. -.-

I don't think all F2P are 'cash shop play' though, League of Legends, PS2 has a fairly decent model.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  madazz

Elite Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1528

1/01/13 1:14:55 PM#146
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by lizardbones

Aren't the people who are buying thirty to fifty dollars worth of stuff in cash shops doing it of their own free will? I mean, they are choosing to buy the stuff...it's not being forced upon them, right? There are also other games available to play that don't cost nearly as much, yes? So they are choosing to play the expensive games in the first place, right?

I would say it's never not been okay to charge anyone whatever you want to charge them in a game. If people are willing to pay the price you charge, then not only is it okay, it's profitable.

I would be fine with games moving towards B2P rather than F2P myself. I don't know if games will move more in that direction, but it at least seems like a possibility.

** edit **
Heh. What nariusseldon said.

I agree with lizard and narius on this one.  

Play the ones that have a model you like and let others play the ones that have models they like.

Agreed. It isn't hurting anyone. But I can see why people would complain about it anyways. Many people play online games for competition. One of the worst area for P2W are the MMORTS games that were discussed in this thread, and when someone in those games invests hundreds, you are no longer competitive. So while I can see their point for not liking it, it is up to them to not join those games. 

Reminds me of a guy I know, he bought Diablo 3 and then freaked out when he got it and found you needed to be online! Seriously... Same goes for these games. All the info is there, just take a quick look. I was going to get into Stronghold online for a change until I read about the amounts people are throwing into it.... if the company can keep the game alive with that kind of model, all the more power to them, just a shame I won't be playing it. Ahwell.... there are always room for others.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

1/01/13 2:20:53 PM#147
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Czanrei

 

You sound like you don't play any mmo that's f2p? I would like to know exactly what mmo ISN'T f2p anymore? lol

WoW? EVE?

Not many MMOs but the majority of MMO players do pay a sub fee because of WoW's dominance.

Factually wrong.

http://www.newzoo.com/press-releases/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/

 "Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs." 23M is not  majority. It is a minority out of 50M.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

1/01/13 2:22:55 PM#148
Originally posted by SpectralHunter
Originally posted by nariusseldon

What you call gouging, i call free market. Surely i won't play the game you just linked .. but once again, if they are successful in luring people spending thousand of dollars, more power to them.

For me, i have other games to play.

Until all the other games start doing the same thing.  We are witnessing the homogenization of the MMO market.  Things are still up in the air because companies are still testing what players are willing to spend and how to manipulate their games to increase spending.  F2P gives companies options on how to charge which makes for a better system to manipulate.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong but games will start costing the same everywhere and their will be tiered pricing (already happening in f2p).

It happens in every market.  Think of what you spend on cable, internet, cell phones; pretty much everything that is widely consumable.

You miss the point that cable & internet are pretty much monopolies and MMOs are not.

Look at smart phone/iOS games .. they raced down to less than a few dollars. And if there is tier pricing, with the lowest tier FREE, it is a good thing since it allows everyone to play some of the games.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

1/01/13 2:29:13 PM#149
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Czanrei

 

You sound like you don't play any mmo that's f2p? I would like to know exactly what mmo ISN'T f2p anymore? lol

WoW? EVE?

Not many MMOs but the majority of MMO players do pay a sub fee because of WoW's dominance.

Factually wrong.

http://www.newzoo.com/press-releases/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/

 "Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs." 23M is not  majority. It is a minority out of 50M.

I stand corrected.

However, I would dispute their '50M' number but meh, too early in the morning for me. XD

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  madazz

Elite Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1528

1/01/13 2:37:18 PM#150
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Czanrei

 

You sound like you don't play any mmo that's f2p? I would like to know exactly what mmo ISN'T f2p anymore? lol

WoW? EVE?

Not many MMOs but the majority of MMO players do pay a sub fee because of WoW's dominance.

Factually wrong.

http://www.newzoo.com/press-releases/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/

 "Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs." 23M is not  majority. It is a minority out of 50M.

I stand corrected.

However, I would dispute their '50M' number but meh, too early in the morning for me. XD

You see, that website releases some stats but makes their money by gathering data from those numbers. We are not seeing the data. One of the things we aren't seeing is the retention rate for these F2P mmo games. What if 75% of those F2P players are actually subbed to another game and only tried that F2P once to see what it is all about? I am not even remotely trying to say that is what it is, but I am trying to point out that those numbers are very basic and don't really tell a story. It may give an impression to us, but the numbers have no significance. These companies aren't going to release the true data for free, they gotta make money some how!!!

 

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4742

1/01/13 2:40:24 PM#151
"Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/01/13 2:44:43 PM#152
Originally posted by Sogi-Ya

I'm seeing F2P game after F2P game price gouge the fuck out of "premium services" and "boosters," sometimes for double or tripple the cost of what it would take for a monthly subscription to a P2P game .... when did this becoime ok to do?

 F2P games dont have premium services. FREEMIUM games do. F2P games are Free, freemiums are a joke and you SHOULD be gouged for taking part in them. Any game that sets up a player based class system, subs = upper class, those that buy = middle class, those playing free = lower class...they are only going to fleece you. You dont deserve to keep your money for falling for it.

The game wasnt good enough for a subscription for 100% of the game, if you are going to shell out money for smaller parts of it...lol. I dont feel sorry for you one bit.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

1/01/13 2:47:03 PM#153
Originally posted by ste2000
"Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

  Torval

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6980

1/01/13 2:50:21 PM#154
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Czanrei

You sound like you don't play any mmo that's f2p? I would like to know exactly what mmo ISN'T f2p anymore? lol

WoW? EVE?

Not many MMOs but the majority of MMO players do pay a sub fee because of WoW's dominance.

Factually wrong.

http://www.newzoo.com/press-releases/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/

 "Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs." 23M is not  majority. It is a minority out of 50M.

I stand corrected.

However, I would dispute their '50M' number but meh, too early in the morning for me. XD

I'm not putting too much stock in their metrics.  First it's a paywall site so we're not getting all the information.  Second they're focusing on the German and US markets and drawing broad conclusions.  Finally they are lumping a lot of diverse types and payment models together and still drawing specific conclusions.

Here is a quote: "Many newcomers, drawn in by free-to-play games, are also signing up for triple A paid MMO games like Diablo 3. By increasingly offering free trials and in-game purchases, pay-to-play games are implementing the success factors of free-to-play games."

So the revenue generated from D3 is being weighted towards the P2P MMO category and that is really the only distinction they seem to make between P2P and F2P.  Thus games like GW2 and TSW would be P2P and put in the same revenue category as WoW and rift.  That may be fine for a stock purchaser but for our discussion(s) here we have more finely grained categories between B2P and P2P (sub based) and F2P.

That is a problem I have with industry analysts and their conclusions - they are from a different perspective from the gamer and somewhat disconnected.  For investment decisions those generalization might be enough to decide if something is a good investment or not, but for detailed analysis and feeling the pulse on where consumers want to spend their money I don't think it is.

They did say "The distinction will become harder to make in the future, as business models mix and merge."  which I think is true.  There isn't just P2P/sub, F2P, and B2P now.  There are sub options, lifetime premium status, up front fees (B2P), P2P with micro-transactions, and so on.  The coming years I think will be in finding a balance of how to generate the most revenue from the greatest number of players.  No single "simple" model will provide that.

I expect some sub fees to increase or to have optional subscription tiers.  I expect to see a great blending of payment models and for this to get more complex and messy than it is now.  We're no longer going to be able to compartmentalize various games into neatly defined revenue categories like we have been.

No one has as many friends as a man with many cheeses!

  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

1/01/13 2:50:47 PM#155
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ste2000
"Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

Is playing them "correctly" playing them for short periods of time then moving on to the next game?


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  madazz

Elite Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1528

1/01/13 2:52:05 PM#156
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ste2000
"Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

I think they are playing them the way they are accustomed to. Many people aren't used to certain things being held back. True you may be able to complete the game without spending a dime and YOU can enjoy it, but there are others that are feeling like they are being short changed by having to purchase the content THEY will enjoy. Sometimes its in the form of advancements being held back that they require to be competitive in PvP, sometimes its unlocking armour, or the slots for it to be competitive. Sometimes it's even paying to be able to carry more in game currency as you cant save enough to buy things to be competitive!

So they are playing the game according to their preference, but the thing is, their portion of the game is expensive where as your portion is free. You need these people as they are paying for YOUR portion of the game. If they aren't happy, youll lose your portion too :(

  cheyane

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2880

1/01/13 2:54:26 PM#157
Men are willing to pay a sub at a site to watch adult movies ( think my husband is addicted to porn) and you are questioning paying for games . People are willing to pay for things they enjoy and wives who discover have to keep quiet or get accused for snooping but hey do not judge alright so I think this discussion is nuts considering what they are willing to cough up for their entertainment.

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  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

1/01/13 2:55:23 PM#158

Is 30-50 dollars a month really that 'make or break' for people?

If so, doesn't that person have bigger issues to deal with other than playing video games?

Coming back to the OP, course it is okay. People will pay whatever they want to get XYZ. As long as people do that out of free-will, this is a basic market transaction.

I pay $10 for a cup of coffee every morning. Should I complain that it is too expensive cause a cup of coffee in other places are cheaper?

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  NorseGod

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 891

1/01/13 2:56:31 PM#159
Originally posted by ste2000
"Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

I've been posting the same thing. You have to pay for everything at higher prices to support entitled leeches, sound familiar?

Can't wait for the "producers" to go Atlas Shrugged.

Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

1/01/13 3:01:38 PM#160
Originally posted by NorseGod
Originally posted by ste2000
"Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

I've been posting the same thing. You have to pay for everything at higher prices to support entitled leeches, sound familiar?

Can't wait for the "producers" to go Atlas Shrugged.

Just become a entitled leech. Problem solved.

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