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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How long do you think the subscription model will last?

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130 posts found
  Renton81

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/17/08
Posts: 91

 
OP  12/27/12 3:26:07 PM#21
Originally posted by Wicoa

This is a piece of string question.  A new game DF UW is sub only and they stick to that, the new ncsoft blade n soul is subscription only.

I believe the subscription will continue to exsist while players are prepared to pay it for a quality product.

As soon as the subscription looses its value for money aspect then it will fade.  Developers need to develop harder faster and better with a subscription though imo.  F2P is for content lite games that drip feed its consumers.

How much you wanna bet those games will become free to play eventually. No doubt there will be games that start off subscription, but based on recent examples the end up F2P.

 

Soon enough developers will completely give up on releasing with subs alltogether I predict.

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  jpnole

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/13/10
Posts: 1648

12/27/12 3:32:41 PM#22
There are F2P games which have optional subs. So I don't see subs going anywhere for now.
  Renton81

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/17/08
Posts: 91

 
OP  12/27/12 3:42:37 PM#23
Originally posted by jpnole
There are F2P games which have optional subs. So I don't see subs going anywhere for now.

Hmm, forgot about those. By my intention was based on games that are exclusively accessible only by subscribing. Not talking about F2P games that offer extra bonuses.

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  Kaniver

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/03
Posts: 84

12/27/12 3:44:22 PM#24

There are some underlying factors that aren't immdietly apparent in the WOW vs GW2 models.

It almost seems like a no brainer that the buy to play avenue is a better way to go. Using GW2 as an example and it is the best example I feel, there is a huge incentive for Arena Net to manipulate the economy. Why would they do that you wonder? To edge you towards making further investments in the game's infastructure be it fluff, bank space, additional character slots , ect.

Don't get me wrong as if the game is good enough, supporting it through further investment is fine. What I am concerned about is the feel of the experience vs a subscription model. The incentive in GW2 is for the parent company keep the economy tight enough as to make it more difficult to farm your way to more characters, bank space ect ect. It's a delicate balance that feels less than optimal from a players standpoint. The drops are dismal, crafting askew, taking much of the enjoyment of PVE style hunting exploring and reducing it significiantly.

Some of the drops and items added to the game feel as if they were meant mostly to take up pack space / bank space thus making the need for more of both more important. I've seen worse implementations but I go back to the underlying feel.

The graphics and gameworld are vibrant and enjoyable but they are not all inclusive as to what makes a virtual compelling to log into for years and years even at the behest of a monthly fee.

GW2's lack of emotes was such a silly thing to leave under developed, the crafting is shameful, and the dismal drops all conspire to leave one feeling..........unfullfilled.

WOW to had pretty crappy crafting (( I refer to Vanguard, EQ2 as better examples)) but they managed to leave one satisfied in a virtual way for many a moon.

Is there even an incentive for Arena Net to keep the servers bustling with activity. I would think so, I would hope so. In it's current state I feel unobliged to invest into it further.

 

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

12/27/12 4:27:02 PM#25
As long as the suckers are willing to pay...

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

12/27/12 4:30:59 PM#26
The sub model already is death for me.
  User Deleted
12/27/12 4:33:53 PM#27

All this talk makes me realize just how old I've gotten in the last sixteen years. 'City of Heroes' was the only MMO I've ever paid to play. Before I ever played an MMO that wasn't free a friend of mine, who'd been playing p2p MMOs for several years, explained it to me like this.

In the days of old I was paying about $6 or $7 for a weekly game rental about twice a month. A simple money and time tally showed that I was spending almost as much as a $15 monthly subscription for two and a half weeks less game time. If I found a great game to play it made more than enough sense to go ahead and pay the extra few bucks for a full month's access and I could cancel the reoccuring subscription anytime I liked.

I realize not everyone has that kind of money to shell out month after month, especially if they are only casual gamers. Obviously, all of the current models have merit in one way or another. I think having several options is good business. For example: Say you've been playing a game for a while and you decide to take a break so you cancel your sub. A night comes where you just have to play but you don't think you'll be playing for a whole month and you don't want to pay the full monthly subscription cost. I think a pay-to-access option, lets say for two weeks of playtime with full in-game character access for about $6 or $7, would be a nice thing to have.
--Free-to-play games have their pros and cons. During the time when I was absent from CoH it went f2p. I assumed it was the beginning of the end, and in actuality my opinion wasn't as far-off as I originally thought. When I came back I tried the f2p model and I found out how badly my old characters were restricted in what they could do so I resubscribed. Opinions will differ, but I actually believe this is a good thing. Over my next, and final, year of play I watched all the freebies play for nothing and either buy very little or nothing at all from the cash shop, allthewhile myself and many other veteran players were continuing to pay their subscriptions on at least one account and STILL use the cash shop because they were offering stuff we wanted.
~~Granted, the game was old and past its life-expectancy so a free-to-play model didn't really hurt it. Unfortunately, it didn't really help it either. My theory is that "new" f2p accounts didn't have the propper restrictions on them. My opinion is that non-vet f2p accounts should have been barred from running any content over level 15. The idea of a free or trial account is to give players a chance to experience your game with hope that they like it enough to pay for more. If you give them too much access you are esentially giving them a free game and they develop the mindset "If I can play for free why should I bother paying for anything more?"

I may be pissed at NCsoft for shutting down 'City of Heroes', but while it was running I enjoyed myself and I was happy to pay for the ability to do so and that is what matters in the end for every game no matter what the payment model. If the game is really worth playing then people will pay for it in some form or another. My advice is for publishers to fully consider their options for subscription payment and game generated income before making any huge changes. Take a few surveys, do a little research and find out what your players want and what they're willing to spend to get it. Putting in a little time and effort early can prevent costly mistakes, and game closures, later.

  Tjed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 161

12/27/12 4:34:16 PM#28
Originally posted by Quirhid
As long as the suckers are willing to pay...

If I got to the point that $15 a month is no longer disposable income, I must have really been a sucker in the business aspect of my life. 

I'll be a $15 a month sucker for a quality product any day.  That's less than 2 beers at the pub with tip.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16989

12/27/12 4:34:20 PM#29
Originally posted by nariusseldon
The sub model already is death for me.

And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

  dimnikar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 277

12/27/12 4:39:34 PM#30

As much as I love WoW (I still value it above any other MMO, I'm sorry but nothing really comes close), I can't imagine ever paying a sub for another game again, not even Titan.

There's just too many good games to play (even if you ignore MMOs completely - never mind that, ESPECIALLY if you ignore this mostly horrible genre) and life is too short to devote it to a sub-based game.

When I get sick of WoW (might be any day now - or never who the f- knows), that's it for me & subs.

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  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3250

Poacher killer.

12/27/12 4:39:40 PM#31
Originally posted by nariusseldon
The sub model already is death for me.

"Death" for you? Geez that sounds pretty dramatic, buddy. Personally, I cannot seem to get that worked up over video games let alone payment plans.

Anywho, even with all of the craziness in the industry right now, I don't see the sub model going anywhere anytime soon. WOW and EVE are living proof of that. There is no shortage of gamers that are willing to pay a sub for a good MMO, however there is a serious shortage of good MMOs that are worth paying for.

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  Ice-Queen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

12/27/12 4:43:59 PM#32
Originally posted by kitarad
What about Titan Blizzard's next MMO ? It might have a sub.

I hope it does, and I hope it's a good mmorpg.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

12/27/12 4:49:35 PM#33
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon
The sub model already is death for me.

And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

Zero. Currently i am playing (MMOs, not listing the non-MMO) PS2, some STO, and i may go back to DCUO. I am going to play Marvel Heroes when it comes out. Oh, and may be a little DDO if i feel like AD&D.

Oh, and i haven't paid a single cent to these games either.

  bamdorf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/09
Posts: 150

12/27/12 5:01:41 PM#34

I assume the OP means "subscription ONLY".  

Isn't it logical for games to offer multiple payment models so players can choose what they want?   I think what we have been seeing lately is a struggle to find the right alternatives --- how to balance the payment methods offered so that there is not an overpowering difference.   For example if the cash shop makes the game p2w, then the subs will tend to disappear, and so forth.   For players who can log on nearly every day the sub method is very cheap, whether it is $10, $15, whatever.   But some can't do that.  So the vendor who offers  alternatives  has a chance to increase revenue...if they don't screw up the game in the process.

 

 

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  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16989

12/27/12 5:36:29 PM#35
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon
The sub model already is death for me.

And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

Zero. Currently i am playing (MMOs, not listing the non-MMO) PS2, some STO, and i may go back to DCUO. I am going to play Marvel Heroes when it comes out. Oh, and may be a little DDO if i feel like AD&D.

Oh, and i haven't paid a single cent to these games either.

Ok great. But how do you expect these companies to make any money? your answer might be "others".

And to my thinking that's the whole crux of the problem right there because more people than not are going to rely upon "others" to pay for their game habits.

It's a ridiculous business model.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

12/27/12 5:38:39 PM#36
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon
The sub model already is death for me.

And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

Zero. Currently i am playing (MMOs, not listing the non-MMO) PS2, some STO, and i may go back to DCUO. I am going to play Marvel Heroes when it comes out. Oh, and may be a little DDO if i feel like AD&D.

Oh, and i haven't paid a single cent to these games either.

Ok great. But how do you expect these companies to make any money? your answer might be "others".

And to my thinking that's the whole crux of the problem right there because more people than not are going to rely upon "others" to pay for their game habits.

It's a ridiculous business model.

Yes. And those others are called "whales" in the industry. As long as they exist, i got to play for free.

And why would that be a "problem" if there are enough whales to sustain the games? Obviously there are enough since there are so many F2P games, and all seems to be doing fine and adding content.

  Theocritus

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

12/27/12 5:45:39 PM#37
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by niceguy3978
As far as I know only SWTOR, TSW and DCUO abandoned their sub model "within months."  This is a bit of hyperbole.

Fixed!

I think the subscription model will last for exactly as long as Blizzard chooses to continue to use the subscription model for WoW.

         I think WoW is definitely the key to the p2p model.......Titan will be able to do a p2p model also simply because Blizzard has such a huge playerbase and can get away with it......SOE for years stuck to this model hardcore and watched their playerbase dwindle year by year......Judging by PS@ and the future EQ Next it sounds like Smed is going away from it altogether.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16989

12/27/12 5:48:41 PM#38
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon
The sub model already is death for me.

And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

Zero. Currently i am playing (MMOs, not listing the non-MMO) PS2, some STO, and i may go back to DCUO. I am going to play Marvel Heroes when it comes out. Oh, and may be a little DDO if i feel like AD&D.

Oh, and i haven't paid a single cent to these games either.

Ok great. But how do you expect these companies to make any money? your answer might be "others".

And to my thinking that's the whole crux of the problem right there because more people than not are going to rely upon "others" to pay for their game habits.

It's a ridiculous business model.

Yes. And those others are called "whales" in the industry. As long as they exist, i got to play for free.

And why would that be a "problem" if there are enough whales to sustain the games? Obviously there are enough since there are so many F2P games, and all seems to be doing fine and adding content.

Well that's not exactly true is it? Aion, with it's "totally free" f2p model wasn't able to make the money that the company wanted. I think companies are going to realize that this model isn't going to generate a sustained income and will start throwing in anything and evertyhing to make a buck. At what point will the Pay to win items make an entrance? Real pay to win items that is.

My thought is that there is going to come a time when companies are going to require more money than "whales" can deliver.

 

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3250

Poacher killer.

12/27/12 5:54:20 PM#39
Originally posted by Sovrath

Well that's not exactly true is it? Aion, with it's "totally free" f2p model wasn't able to make the money that the company wanted. I think companies are going to realize that this model isn't going to generate a sustained income and will start throwing in anything and evertyhing to make a buck. At what point will the Pay to win items make an entrance? Real pay to win items that is.

My thought is that there is going to come a time when companies are going to require more money than "whales" can deliver.

 

Oh I think you're absolutely correct.

These "whales" are not going to be enough to keep these games alive in the long run. As they move on, they're going to leave one hell of a mess of dead titles in their wakes.

The next few years are going to be quite interesting to observe as things level out and evolve.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3117

Veni, Vidi, Converti

12/27/12 6:04:44 PM#40
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by Sovrath

Well that's not exactly true is it? Aion, with it's "totally free" f2p model wasn't able to make the money that the company wanted. I think companies are going to realize that this model isn't going to generate a sustained income and will start throwing in anything and evertyhing to make a buck. At what point will the Pay to win items make an entrance? Real pay to win items that is.

My thought is that there is going to come a time when companies are going to require more money than "whales" can deliver.

 

Oh I think you're absolutely correct.

These "whales" are not going to be enough to keep these games alive in the long run. As they move on, they're going to leave one hell of a mess of dead titles in their wakes.

The next few years are going to be quite interesting to observe as things level out and evolve.

Whales and over-fishing... we've been here before?!

F2P just makes me think the company has no incentive to keep any one player enjoying the game, it's all about churning through the players before they leave??

 

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