Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by hikaru77

Nothing in GW2 is innovative, everything have been done before, but is a players choices, and a lot of people think it is. 

Since the OP won't respond I'll ask you then. If not GW2, then what game deserved it for being "most innovative"?

TSW is probably more innovative. DE have been done before by Rift and Warhammer PQs (DE are pretty much  improved Public quest from Warhammer), The WvWvW system is a copy and paste of DAOC and WAR 1.4 Update; Dodge system, done before by games like AoC as an example (it was more complex than GW2), even STO have a dodge system. No trinity, any console game where eveyone is just dps, like GW2. Again, is players choices, so a lot of people really believe that GW2 is new and innovative, but in the real world, is not.  

And what is innovative about TSW? I only played a beta trial of some type, and didn't care for it too much.

If it has something i missed, i may give it another go.

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

They spent most for advertising on these sites. That is all, nothing else to it. That is also why they won best game on so many sites. It's a payed competition, ask some insiders how "ratings" are done. It is a well known fact that review sites are all payed with advertisements.

Stop.

Take a breath.

Once you're relaxed,

take off the tinfoil hat

and tell us more about how everyone here,

except you of course,

was paid to vote for GW2.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

They spent most for advertising on these sites. That is all, nothing else to it. That is also why they won best game on so many sites. It's a payed competition, ask some insiders how "ratings" are done. It is a well known fact that review sites are all payed with advertisements.

 

Stop.

Take a breath.

 

Once you're relaxed,

take off the tinfoil hat

 

and tell us more about how everyone here,

except you of course,

was paid to vote for GW2.

 

 

Lol

Originally posted by hikaru77

TSW is probably more innovative. DE have been done before by Rift and Warhammer PQs (DE are pretty much  improved Public quest from Warhammer), The WvWvW system is a copy and paste of DAOC and WAR 1.4 Update; Dodge system, done before by games like AoC as an example (it was more complex than GW2), even STO have a dodge system. No trinity, any console game where eveyone is just dps, like GW2. Again, is players choices, so a lot of people really believe that GW2 is new and innovative, but in the real world, is not.  

I really enjoyed TSW. In some ways more than GW2 by far.

Still, I don't see how it was more innovative.

Better story lines, fucking way better dungeon design, etc.

But more innovative? Sorry, don't see it.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by hikaru77

TSW is probably more innovative. DE have been done before by Rift and Warhammer PQs (DE are pretty much  improved Public quest from Warhammer), The WvWvW system is a copy and paste of DAOC and WAR 1.4 Update; Dodge system, done before by games like AoC as an example (it was more complex than GW2), even STO have a dodge system. No trinity, any console game where eveyone is just dps, like GW2. Again, is players choices, so a lot of people really believe that GW2 is new and innovative, but in the real world, is not.  

I really enjoyed TSW. In some ways more than GW2 by far.

Still, I don't see how it was more innovative.

Better story lines, fucking way better dungeon design, etc.

But more innovative? Sorry, don't see it.

Yeah, just because you say gw2 is not innovative doesnt make tsw innovative. Now, pirate101...

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by hikaru77

TSW is probably more innovative. DE have been done before by Rift and Warhammer PQs (DE are pretty much  improved Public quest from Warhammer), The WvWvW system is a copy and paste of DAOC and WAR 1.4 Update; Dodge system, done before by games like AoC as an example (it was more complex than GW2), even STO have a dodge system. No trinity, any console game where eveyone is just dps, like GW2. Again, is players choices, so a lot of people really believe that GW2 is new and innovative, but in the real world, is not.  

I really enjoyed TSW. In some ways more than GW2 by far.

Still, I don't see how it was more innovative.

Better story lines, fucking way better dungeon design, etc.

But more innovative? Sorry, don't see it.

What about the way the quests were presented?

The same I can say about GW2. The presentation of the quests.

Isn't this enough to be considered innovative? Disregarding everything else in both games.

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by hikaru77

Nothing in GW2 is innovative, everything have been done before, but is a players choices, and a lot of people think it is. 

Since the OP won't respond I'll ask you then. If not GW2, then what game deserved it for being "most innovative"?

TSW is probably more innovative. DE have been done before by Rift and Warhammer PQs (DE are pretty much  improved Public quest from Warhammer), The WvWvW system is a copy and paste of DAOC and WAR 1.4 Update; Dodge system, done before by games like AoC as an example (it was more complex than GW2), even STO have a dodge system. No trinity, any console game where eveyone is just dps, like GW2. Again, is players choices, so a lot of people really believe that GW2 is new and innovative, but in the real world, is not.  

And what is innovative about TSW? I only played a beta trial of some type, and didn't care for it too much.

 

If it has something i missed, i may give it another go.

I'm not saying TSW is more innovative than any other game, but here are a few things it introduced to MMOs:

• The ability wheel; character can switch at any time to any role (tank, healer, dps and everything in between).  Add to this the ability to completely customize your character to your own play style. 
• Level-free, class-free system (yes, gear QL is part of it, but it's not the whole picture)
• Investigation missions that require player out-of-the-box thinking and puzzle solving skills to complete (unless you go to spoiler sites).  Puzzles aren't new to computer games, but they have somehow been forgotten by the MMO genre
• Sabotage missions that require stealth and non-combat to complete
• Quest system that is story based rather than hub-based.  Finishing a quest takes you to a new area for questing, and does not force you to return to the hub
• Modern day setting with ties to real world tech -- cell phone; in-game browser and websites that are part of the the game's storyline
• An in-game stage/theater that gives players props, lighting effects, weather and sound to put on in-game plays

Originally posted by NBlitz

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by hikaru77

TSW is probably more innovative. DE have been done before by Rift and Warhammer PQs (DE are pretty much  improved Public quest from Warhammer), The WvWvW system is a copy and paste of DAOC and WAR 1.4 Update; Dodge system, done before by games like AoC as an example (it was more complex than GW2), even STO have a dodge system. No trinity, any console game where eveyone is just dps, like GW2. Again, is players choices, so a lot of people really believe that GW2 is new and innovative, but in the real world, is not.  

I really enjoyed TSW. In some ways more than GW2 by far.

Still, I don't see how it was more innovative.

Better story lines, fucking way better dungeon design, etc.

But more innovative? Sorry, don't see it.

What about the way the quests were presented?

The same I can say about GW2. The presentation of the quests.

Isn't this enough to be considered innovative? Disregarding everything else in both games.

Nope. It is never enough for the fanboys and trolls. Never, ever enough. 

Can we just close all threads pertaining to "innovation"? It always end up with people arguing the definition and not answering the real question. Then you bring other games in and it is a interforum war.

All the little features to create the systems in GW2 are what are innovative.

Dynamic Events overall presentation and structure are an innovation on Warhammers PQ foundation, and a further improvement on Rifts system.

Hearts  are an innovative twist again in the presentation and structure of the traditional quest.

Classes and Combat are yet another innovative twist on how traditional fantasy archetypes and roles are percieved. Yes the individual features in combat have been pretty much done in other MMO's but please point to me a single MMO that shares the exact same combat as GW2. It is the number of all of the little improvements that make it unique and innovative.

There are many other small examples I could come up with, but my overall point is that the enitre package of little improvements is what made GW2 innovative. If you boil it down feature by feature, then yes most of it has been done elsewhere. However, games are more then feature bullet points. They should be treated as a total package and rated as such.

Originally posted by NBlitz

What about the way the quests were presented?

The same I can say about GW2. The presentation of the quests.

Isn't this enough to be considered innovative? Disregarding everything else in both games.

They were both innovative in their own ways far as I'm concerned. DEs were a great step forward in design in making them more organic and (for some...I stress some) more heroic.

TSW's implementation of adding puzzle elements and research was also a nice change of pace.

It was also nice how both games used exploration to a degree to uncover some quests rather than have everything marked off on their maps.

Far as questing goes they both excelled in that area. Would love to see other games evolve these concepts even further.

Originally posted by KingJiggly

Nope. It is never enough for the fanboys and trolls. Never, ever enough. 

Can we just close all threads pertaining to "innovation"? It always end up with people arguing the definition and not answering the real question. Then you bring other games in and it is a interforum war.

Regardless the obvious motivation of the OP seems silly to me to close threads like these when the site itself decides to even have an award in relation to the matter.

Although the endless debate over "what is innovation" in relation to games does get really tiring.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

They spent most for advertising on these sites. That is all, nothing else to it. That is also why they won best game on so many sites. It's a payed competition, ask some insiders how "ratings" are done. It is a well known fact that review sites are all payed with advertisements.

 

Stop.

Take a breath.

 

Once you're relaxed,

take off the tinfoil hat

 

and tell us more about how everyone here,

except you of course,

was paid to vote for GW2.

 

 

So far whatever i have read on these forums and what GW2 fans have posted i have come to the conclusion that only polls which are rigged are where GW2 does't win. But when GW2 wins polls are fair and win is well deserved.

I was really looking forward to the reply this post was going to get because i read somethign similar how polls were rigged because Pirate 101 won game of the year player choice award. I see that things are balanced out.

Originally posted by Zalmon

So far whatever i have read on these forums and what GW2 fans have posted i have come to the conclusion that only polls which are rigged are where GW2 does't win. But when GW2 wins polls are fair and win is well deserved.

I was really looking forward to the reply this post was going to get because i read somethign similar how polls were rigged because Pirate 101 won game of the year player choice award. I see that things are balanced out.

Where? I haven't seen this. Can't say I've seen anyone seriously say they think it has been rigged if GW2 doesn't win. Plenty have said the opposite.

Personally, I can see why it would win mmo of the year. Far as ones as for game of the year? Not by a long shot far as I'm concerned. Although I don't think sites that gave it to GW2 did it because Anet paid for it.

Originally posted by NBlitz

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

(just look at the Award thread) Innovation for Most Rabid Fanbase of any game to date? 

That is until they grow bored of the game and drop completely off the map and we don't hear from them until they sheepishly start posting how they're not playing anymore "but but but it's a great game!"

 

As for the innovations? A short Google search yields a link to this very forum and a topic made here by someone who is now Deleted. Someone called him Cal *shrug* I don't know who that was.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/333764/List-of-GW2-Innovations.html

Combat: Casting while moving No auto attack (you can set any skill on your bar to autocast, and one of them will be spammable) Attacks don't need a target, they'll hit whatever gets in their way Dodging attacks and projectiles Shield stance blocks projectiles from hitting you and people behind you Limited skillbar No holy trinity, players aren't locked into one role to the exclusion of all others Skills fit into broad categories of damage, control, or support Weapon(s) determine half your skill bar and give different skills than other weapons Players can potentially switch roles in combat (if weapon/skill choices plan for it) No ally targeted abilities Everyone has a self-heal ability which is the most powerful heal Downed state before dying, killing an enemy rallies you Downed state gives you a new, limited skillbar to fight back with Any player can rez anyone mid combat anytime, including NPCs. Very minimal death penalty. Picking up an environmental weapon changes your skillbar Thieves can steal environmental weapons from enemies You get full xp and loot for helping kill a mob whether grouped or ungrouped Hundreds of cross profession combos to enhance the effect of your skills, even ungrouped Mob aggro based on proximity and other factors NPC enemies can dodge your attacks NPC attacks may be deadlier due to ability of players to dodge and revive No mana/energy for any class (subject to change) Only four attributes.  Power affects melee, range and spell damage All professions viable at both melee and range Underwater: Desire to have underwater be huge part of the world You have underwater only weapons Skills change to underwater versions Skills use the Z-axis No breath meter Drowned state, it's like downed state, but you can also get to the surface to rally Underwater friendly races and towns Rangers have underwater pets Dynamic Events: Completely replace quests in the open world Run whether players are there or not They actually happen instead of just being told about them Failable and not necessarily repeatable on failure Allow for victory and failure conditions not easily accomplished with quests Run in cycles so they're repeatable Encourage community by letting everyone participate at the same time Instantly scale up or down with number of players participating Reward everyone involved based on their amount of participation Chain together to keep people working together longer Affect the world in terms of what merchants sell and which waypoints are available Don't always run so you'll see different things when revisiting a zone Constantly adding new events to enhance replayability Boss fights which scale with number of players up to 100 Open World: Entirely PVE No factions Designed to be as griefless as possible No race/class restrictions Phased gathering nodes that allow everyone to have a shot at them. Everyone can gather everything so no waiting on others/making people wait No set path through zones Automentoring keeps entire world's content rewarding and challenging Manual sidekicking to a higher level friend City to city ports so you can play with friends immediately. Teleportation to any waypoint you've unlocked Hidden events to reward explorers Day/night cycle which can affect your weapons' procs as well as trigger DEs at certain times Dynamic weather can trigger DEs (when snow falls) or be changed by DEs (NPC causes snow) Tasks to fill hearts in the open world, for completionists and NPC goodwill Boss fights at the end of all the tutorials put you right into the action Personal Story: Everyone has one big storyline from creation to level cap Choices made at character creation affect it Choices in game have consequences and can branch it Each player has a Home Instance section of town Character personality gives different dialog options and affects how NPCs react to you PVP: 3 Faction World PVP against two other servers in large 4-zone maps No fixed limit to number of participants (though eventually technology would limit it) W/L record is kept After 2 weeks, your server is matched up against new, equal strength servers Winning server gets PVE buff of some kind Castles and keeps to hold, dynamic events to fight over, trade routes Destructable environments Players can level up entirely in World PVP Enemy players drop loot as if they were PVE enemies Hot joinable Structured PVP Structured PVP with custom rulesets Players in structured PVP are max level with all skills and gear so it's a level playing field PVP balanced separately from PVE Dungeons: Dungeons have a story mode separate from your personal story Completing story mode unlocks 3 explorable mode paths These show the consequences of the story mode There are random/hidden events in dungeons No raiding Get a token for armor/weapon everytime you complete a dungeon, no hoping for random drop Miscellaneous: Flat leveling curve Players can be in multiple guilds No endgame vertical gear progression in power 30+ Minigames in cities 400 dye colors, each piece of armor has three color sections Gear that can take up more than one armor slot Grindless crafting with discoverable recipes Use an iPad to see what your friends are doing in game and send them messages Auction house available from outside the game Translatable fictional languages Unconventional NPC races with deep lore Add your own music to ingame playlists, your battle music will start when you enter combat Playlists revert to in game music during cinematics Carrier pigeons deliver your mail to you No subscription fee

 

Wow , amazing that nothing on that list is Inovative... gj

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Zalmon

So far whatever i have read on these forums and what GW2 fans have posted i have come to the conclusion that only polls which are rigged are where GW2 does't win. But when GW2 wins polls are fair and win is well deserved.

I was really looking forward to the reply this post was going to get because i read somethign similar how polls were rigged because Pirate 101 won game of the year player choice award. I see that things are balanced out.

Where? I haven't seen this. Can't say I've seen anyone seriously say they think it has been rigged if GW2 doesn't win. Plenty have said the opposite.

Personally, I can see why it would win mmo of the year. Far as ones as for game of the year? Not by a long shot far as I'm concerned. Although I don't think sites that gave it to GW2 did it because Anet paid for it.

For starters...

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by atuerstar

Did any other gaming site even nominate Pirates101 for anything?

 

No, but this poll was rigged.  Anyone who's been on the internet longer than a year and knows about sock accounts and how they rarely post differently from one another knows what happened here. 

 

Originally posted by Scorchien

Originally posted by NBlitz

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

(just look at the Award thread) Innovation for Most Rabid Fanbase of any game to date? 

That is until they grow bored of the game and drop completely off the map and we don't hear from them until they sheepishly start posting how they're not playing anymore "but but but it's a great game!"

 

As for the innovations? A short Google search yields a link to this very forum and a topic made here by someone who is now Deleted. Someone called him Cal *shrug* I don't know who that was.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/333764/List-of-GW2-Innovations.html

Combat: Casting while moving No auto attack (you can set any skill on your bar to autocast, and one of them will be spammable) Attacks don't need a target, they'll hit whatever gets in their way Dodging attacks and projectiles Shield stance blocks projectiles from hitting you and people behind you Limited skillbar No holy trinity, players aren't locked into one role to the exclusion of all others Skills fit into broad categories of damage, control, or support Weapon(s) determine half your skill bar and give different skills than other weapons Players can potentially switch roles in combat (if weapon/skill choices plan for it) No ally targeted abilities Everyone has a self-heal ability which is the most powerful heal Downed state before dying, killing an enemy rallies you Downed state gives you a new, limited skillbar to fight back with Any player can rez anyone mid combat anytime, including NPCs. Very minimal death penalty. Picking up an environmental weapon changes your skillbar Thieves can steal environmental weapons from enemies You get full xp and loot for helping kill a mob whether grouped or ungrouped Hundreds of cross profession combos to enhance the effect of your skills, even ungrouped Mob aggro based on proximity and other factors NPC enemies can dodge your attacks NPC attacks may be deadlier due to ability of players to dodge and revive No mana/energy for any class (subject to change) Only four attributes.  Power affects melee, range and spell damage All professions viable at both melee and range Underwater: Desire to have underwater be huge part of the world You have underwater only weapons Skills change to underwater versions Skills use the Z-axis No breath meter Drowned state, it's like downed state, but you can also get to the surface to rally Underwater friendly races and towns Rangers have underwater pets Dynamic Events: Completely replace quests in the open world Run whether players are there or not They actually happen instead of just being told about them Failable and not necessarily repeatable on failure Allow for victory and failure conditions not easily accomplished with quests Run in cycles so they're repeatable Encourage community by letting everyone participate at the same time Instantly scale up or down with number of players participating Reward everyone involved based on their amount of participation Chain together to keep people working together longer Affect the world in terms of what merchants sell and which waypoints are available Don't always run so you'll see different things when revisiting a zone Constantly adding new events to enhance replayability Boss fights which scale with number of players up to 100 Open World: Entirely PVE No factions Designed to be as griefless as possible No race/class restrictions Phased gathering nodes that allow everyone to have a shot at them. Everyone can gather everything so no waiting on others/making people wait No set path through zones Automentoring keeps entire world's content rewarding and challenging Manual sidekicking to a higher level friend City to city ports so you can play with friends immediately. Teleportation to any waypoint you've unlocked Hidden events to reward explorers Day/night cycle which can affect your weapons' procs as well as trigger DEs at certain times Dynamic weather can trigger DEs (when snow falls) or be changed by DEs (NPC causes snow) Tasks to fill hearts in the open world, for completionists and NPC goodwill Boss fights at the end of all the tutorials put you right into the action Personal Story: Everyone has one big storyline from creation to level cap Choices made at character creation affect it Choices in game have consequences and can branch it Each player has a Home Instance section of town Character personality gives different dialog options and affects how NPCs react to you PVP: 3 Faction World PVP against two other servers in large 4-zone maps No fixed limit to number of participants (though eventually technology would limit it) W/L record is kept After 2 weeks, your server is matched up against new, equal strength servers Winning server gets PVE buff of some kind Castles and keeps to hold, dynamic events to fight over, trade routes Destructable environments Players can level up entirely in World PVP Enemy players drop loot as if they were PVE enemies Hot joinable Structured PVP Structured PVP with custom rulesets Players in structured PVP are max level with all skills and gear so it's a level playing field PVP balanced separately from PVE Dungeons: Dungeons have a story mode separate from your personal story Completing story mode unlocks 3 explorable mode paths These show the consequences of the story mode There are random/hidden events in dungeons No raiding Get a token for armor/weapon everytime you complete a dungeon, no hoping for random drop Miscellaneous: Flat leveling curve Players can be in multiple guilds No endgame vertical gear progression in power 30+ Minigames in cities 400 dye colors, each piece of armor has three color sections Gear that can take up more than one armor slot Grindless crafting with discoverable recipes Use an iPad to see what your friends are doing in game and send them messages Auction house available from outside the game Translatable fictional languages Unconventional NPC races with deep lore Add your own music to ingame playlists, your battle music will start when you enter combat Playlists revert to in game music during cinematics Carrier pigeons deliver your mail to you No subscription fee

 

Wow , amazing that nothing on that list is Inovative... gj

All of it in one game is.

Originally posted by Scorchien

Originally posted by NBlitz

<>

Wow , amazing that nothing on that list is Inovative... gj

Yikes. I should've reworded what I posted back then :p The question was asked and I simply posted what was posted a while ago. Nowhere did I say I agree with that. But reading what I copy pasted I can see how one might think that.

Originally posted by Zalmon 

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by atuerstar

Did any other gaming site even nominate Pirates101 for anything?

 

No, but this poll was rigged.  Anyone who's been on the internet longer than a year and knows about sock accounts and how they rarely post differently from one another knows what happened here. 

 

Touche

Well...can't speak for them. Silly to make such an observation considering the game won an award itself in a different category. To be fair though I would say that is more a minority opinion than anything.

Originally posted by NBlitz

Yikes. I should've reworded what I posted back then :p The question was asked and I simply posted what was posted a while ago. Nowhere did I say I agree with that. But reading what I copy pasted I can see how one might think that.

Yeah, must say I thought you were in agreement as well with the way you presented it.