Originally posted by Cakeisyummeh

 the game was apparently up for launch a couple of weeks ago, so who would have thought beta would have been in this disgusting state.

everyone who knows Aventurine.  ;)

Originally posted by RocSek

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by Onigod

Originally posted by deathshroud

You can get a refund by getting your bank to reverse charges, if you paid by paypal you can demnad one that way.

 

 

not sure why oyu want a refund though i mean they have delivered on what they said which is a beta version of df uw

They will then never accept a payment from you again.

 

That is not true.  There are plenty of valid reasons to reverse a transaction, none of which result in the company benefiting from blacklisting that person down the road.

Companies are different than people, and it's truly rare for them to ever not be willing to take money from someone regardless of the past (at least in the post-check era of today).

Sorry, I'm reading though their site now because I'm curious and found this.

If you have made a charge-back with your credit card company or initiated a Paypal dispute (on purpose or by mistake) for any product or service you have received from Aventurine, your account will be permanently banned and will remain so until the charge-back or dispute has been cancelled.  Aventurine considers credit card charge-backs and Paypal disputes to be fraud, if you have made no reasonable effort to work with us to resolve any problems with your purchase.

Sounds like a truly disreputable company.

Umm?

What you paid for was access to play the game when it goes live.  Currently, it is not live, so how can you request a refund.  The All sales are final, pretty much rules that out.

Just because you do not like beta, I am assuming????  Which was just an added bonus to pre-ordering, does not make you worthy of a refund.

Not to mention even in the short beta it is better than WoW and clones by far.

Originally posted by deathshroud

You can get a refund by getting your bank to reverse charges, if you paid by paypal you can demnad one that way.

 

 

not sure why oyu want a refund though i mean they have delivered on what they said which is a beta version of df uw

Why point him towards an unethical way of getting a refund?

Originally posted by Yizle

Originally posted by RocSek

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by Onigod

Originally posted by deathshroud

You can get a refund by getting your bank to reverse charges, if you paid by paypal you can demnad one that way.

 

 

not sure why oyu want a refund though i mean they have delivered on what they said which is a beta version of df uw

They will then never accept a payment from you again.

 

That is not true.  There are plenty of valid reasons to reverse a transaction, none of which result in the company benefiting from blacklisting that person down the road.

Companies are different than people, and it's truly rare for them to ever not be willing to take money from someone regardless of the past (at least in the post-check era of today).

Sorry, I'm reading though their site now because I'm curious and found this.

If you have made a charge-back with your credit card company or initiated a Paypal dispute (on purpose or by mistake) for any product or service you have received from Aventurine, your account will be permanently banned and will remain so until the charge-back or dispute has been cancelled.  Aventurine considers credit card charge-backs and Paypal disputes to be fraud, if you have made no reasonable effort to work with us to resolve any problems with your purchase.

Sounds like a truly disreputable company.

Sounds like a company who hired a lawyer. 

Smart choice too.  Look here is an example of somebody who bought access to the game, the game is not even out and now they want a refund... this is why that statement is necessary.

People like this go on ebay, place ridiculously high bids, win and then crealize they do not want the product.  Not realizing their ridiculous actions cost the seller money.

Originally posted by Laross
I don't blame anyone for wanting a refund.  When I bought this game I was expecting a release not a fucked up Beta, I didn't pay to play a beta.  Even worse going into beta you'd expect a much better one considering it was supposed to be released to begin with.  But instead we get a beta that proves that they were no where ready and are only buying more time.  This is starting to smell like a WarZ debacle.   But in any case I bought it and will stick with it and see how this turns out at release.  

Umm, well you clearly did not read the post for the pre-orders then.  Not to mention if you have been in beta you have seen many improvements.  Not to mention they clearly stated that they pretty much through together a client for the beta.

Here it is so you can read it... the post that was there before you placed your order, stating the game will not be out until... next year.

First, the post stating the game is not releasing on 12/12/12:

Dear Friends,

We have come to a decision, not without much internal debate, that instead of commercial release this Wednesday as planned we are going to launch the game for playtesting first. We also believe that we owe the community a thorough explanation for this last minute decisions, so the reasons behind it are the following:

• While we have done a lot of internal testing for the game, the platform has been thoroughly field tested, and the game has also been tested by external partners, we have always felt that the game should be tested by the players and last checks corroborate this. Time however was not on our side.
• Secondarily, some of the reasons which caused us to slip from our original launch date last month are not yet fully resolved to our satisfaction and a bit more time is needed. For the record, what’s left shouldn’t take more than a few days longer.
• Being Greenlit on Steam so quickly was beyond our expectations, this success was 100% community driven and it showed us how important to the community this is. After evaluating the procedure needed for proper Steam integration, we realized that if we launch on schedule it would be impossible for us to launch with Steam.

• We’re launching a fully playable beta version of the game as soon as we get the build ready. We have a firm ETA for Monday,December 17th. By beta version we mean the game will be running in debug mode so that we can quickly get valuable feedback from playtesting and we can identify and address issues as quickly as possible.
• Pre-orders get beta access; we’re making pre-orders available on Friday so you can download the game over the weekend.
• Some details regarding the pre-order: returning Darkfall players will get the game at the price of the subscription during pre-order. New players will get the game at a discount. Pre-orders get 30 days of game-time when the game launches, beta access for as long as that is live, plus you can reserve your character’s name. We will also explore offering a head start. Pre-order slots may be limited and will be throttled if needed.
• We can focus on playing and working with you to identify any bugs and imbalances and will continue working closely with our players to improve the game so that by the time the game launches it will be as perfect as possible. There will be developer – player interaction on issues that come up, and we want to keep developing a user-centric culture throughout the lifecycle of Darkfall Unholy Wars.
• We will also be working round the clock on getting the game ready for a Steam launch with all the Steam features we want integrated.
• The Darkfall Unholy Wars launch should happen as soon as we’re cleared to do a Steam launch, we assume that the game will be properly tested by then as well. Our estimate is January after the holidays. We will announce a specific launch date as soon as possible. We need to estimate the exact time it takes to integrate all the Steam features, and to assess what feedback we get from our playtesters.

We feel there are compelling arguments for us to take a little extra time and to involve the community. The very amusing community insider joke “we’ll do it live” is not how we prefer to do things, but in the past we had been forced to by our circumstances or by external factors.

We regret the last minute announcement, we had to agree on this with several parties and get approval from all our departments so we’ve been agonizing over this since last week. We do appreciate your understanding on this, it was not an easy or a pleasant decision for us to make, especially at the last minute, and we feel badly that we’re not true to our word even though everyone at Aventurine has been working extremely hard for tomorrow’s planned release date. However, we also feel that this is the best possible option for the game, for the players, and we promise to make the best of it involving you as much as possible in making Darkfall Unholy Wars reach the potential it deserves.

More information on the playtesting process and on the pre-orders, will become available in separate announcements starting tomorrow. We’ll also be happy to address your concerns and provide answers to your questions.



Thank you for reading.

Now the post stating PRE-ORDER

Dear forumfallers,

We are happy to announce that the pre-order system is now active. Please, visit our new website

http://www.darkfallonline.com/

and take the necessary steps to pre-order the game. The procedure is fairly simple. All you have to do is provide the appropriate information. The only thing that needs to be stressed concerns our veteran players: please, be sure to tick the appropriate box when the system asks you to connect your old Darkfall Online account to your new Darkfall Unholy Wars account.

If you experience any problems, please post at this thread. We will be happy to assist you in any possible way.

See you in beta!

[UPDATE]
To all our veteran players: You need to create a new account and then link your Darkfall Online account to your new Darkfall Unholy Wars account.

[UPDATE]
Those who end up in our old website, please press Ctrl+F5. You see the old site because your browser has cached the old page.

[UPDATE]
PaySafe is not available today. We will let you know when it's implemented. Please refrain from trying to buy an account until we let you know if you're using PaySafe.

[UPDATE]
It is absolutely NECESSARY to save your serial key somewhere safe. Make a screenshot and print it, write it down, then wright it down again. You will NOT receive this serial in your email for security reasons, neither will it be shown in your Account Management page. You WILL NEED it for all your interaction with Customer Support.

Originally posted by HeroEvermore
You can get a refund, do not listen to anyone saying you cannot. Contact your bank and say they did not gie you the product as advertised. They won't question you at all and will refund your purchase. <3

They however did give the product as described, therefore doing that is...

F

R

A

U

D

Originally posted by Cakeisyummeh

Originally posted by Onigod

Originally posted by deathshroud

You can get a refund by getting your bank to reverse charges, if you paid by paypal you can demnad one that way.

 

 

not sure why oyu want a refund though i mean they have delivered on what they said which is a beta version of df uw

They will then never accept a payment from you again.

 

Also am i the only one who finds these things just bad.. ESPECIALLY when the game is in BETA. If i go to a movie theater or rent a movie but i happen to not like the movie do you think i can get a refund?

You paid for something not finished and  you knew that when making the purchase.  And also (maybe im understanding this wrong) they cant just give you a refund after you accessed all the beta forums, played the game after accepting a NDA first time you logged in.

Did I ask for your opinion?: No. I asked for the companies email.

Do I care about your opninion?: No

 

I didn't pay for an unplayable mess, also finding the system req online is next to impossible, so there was no way of telling how it would run on my PC (Not well apparently) and the game was apparently up for launch a couple of weeks ago, so who would have thought beta would have been in this disgusting state.

Lack of simple research on your part does not entitle you to a refund.

Took me 10seconds to go to their website (created before the pre-orders)

Go to the FAQ

and copy and paste this to you.

Originally posted by Zyzra

 

Not sure why this company wouldn't allow a pre-order to be cancelled and money returned, especially before launch.

Very disreputable.

Well by pre-ordering you receive access to the digital file.  Therefore, you got a portion of the product already.  It is not the same as pre-ordering a game and receiving absolutely nothing for it. 

As far as I can tell this guy downloaded the game, and is now making an emulator... he seems like the scamming type.

Originally posted by phantomghost

Originally posted by Laross
I don't blame anyone for wanting a refund.  When I bought this game I was expecting a release not a fucked up Beta, I didn't pay to play a beta.  Even worse going into beta you'd expect a much better one considering it was supposed to be released to begin with.  But instead we get a beta that proves that they were no where ready and are only buying more time.  This is starting to smell like a WarZ debacle.   But in any case I bought it and will stick with it and see how this turns out at release.  

 

Umm, well you clearly did not read the post for the pre-orders then.  Not to mention if you have been in beta you have seen many improvements.  Not to mention they clearly stated that they pretty much through together a client for the beta.

 

Here it is so you can read it... the post that was there before you placed your order, stating the game will not be out until... next year.

 

First, the post stating the game is not releasing on 12/12/12:

 

Dear Friends,

We have come to a decision, not without much internal debate, that instead of commercial release this Wednesday as planned we are going to launch the game for playtesting first. We also believe that we owe the community a thorough explanation for this last minute decisions, so the reasons behind it are the following:

• While we have done a lot of internal testing for the game, the platform has been thoroughly field tested, and the game has also been tested by external partners, we have always felt that the game should be tested by the players and last checks corroborate this. Time however was not on our side.
• Secondarily, some of the reasons which caused us to slip from our original launch date last month are not yet fully resolved to our satisfaction and a bit more time is needed. For the record, what’s left shouldn’t take more than a few days longer.
• Being Greenlit on Steam so quickly was beyond our expectations, this success was 100% community driven and it showed us how important to the community this is. After evaluating the procedure needed for proper Steam integration, we realized that if we launch on schedule it would be impossible for us to launch with Steam.

Despite considering this a setback, we actually also consider it a perfect opportunity to get the community involved directly in the fine tuning of the game features before launching on Steam. We have been working with the dream of making Darkfall Unholy Wars the best competitive experience ever and lack of community feedback would have been a missed opportunity. We also believe that a Steam launch can help the game get the critical mass it needs to be as fun as it can possibly be, and we feel it’s important to have the game tested more thoroughly before this happens.

So now what?

• We’re launching a fully playable beta version of the game as soon as we get the build ready. We have a firm ETA for Monday,December 17th. By beta version we mean the game will be running in debug mode so that we can quickly get valuable feedback from playtesting and we can identify and address issues as quickly as possible.
• Pre-orders get beta access; we’re making pre-orders available on Friday so you can download the game over the weekend.
• Some details regarding the pre-order: returning Darkfall players will get the game at the price of the subscription during pre-order. New players will get the game at a discount. Pre-orders get 30 days of game-time when the game launches, beta access for as long as that is live, plus you can reserve your character’s name. We will also explore offering a head start. Pre-order slots may be limited and will be throttled if needed.
• We can focus on playing and working with you to identify any bugs and imbalances and will continue working closely with our players to improve the game so that by the time the game launches it will be as perfect as possible. There will be developer – player interaction on issues that come up, and we want to keep developing a user-centric culture throughout the lifecycle of Darkfall Unholy Wars.
• We will also be working round the clock on getting the game ready for a Steam launch with all the Steam features we want integrated.
• The Darkfall Unholy Wars launch should happen as soon as we’re cleared to do a Steam launch, we assume that the game will be properly tested by then as well. Our estimate is January after the holidays. We will announce a specific launch date as soon as possible. We need to estimate the exact time it takes to integrate all the Steam features, and to assess what feedback we get from our playtesters.

We feel there are compelling arguments for us to take a little extra time and to involve the community. The very amusing community insider joke “we’ll do it live” is not how we prefer to do things, but in the past we had been forced to by our circumstances or by external factors.

We regret the last minute announcement, we had to agree on this with several parties and get approval from all our departments so we’ve been agonizing over this since last week. We do appreciate your understanding on this, it was not an easy or a pleasant decision for us to make, especially at the last minute, and we feel badly that we’re not true to our word even though everyone at Aventurine has been working extremely hard for tomorrow’s planned release date. However, we also feel that this is the best possible option for the game, for the players, and we promise to make the best of it involving you as much as possible in making Darkfall Unholy Wars reach the potential it deserves.

More information on the playtesting process and on the pre-orders, will become available in separate announcements starting tomorrow. We’ll also be happy to address your concerns and provide answers to your questions.



Thank you for reading.

 

Now the post stating PRE-ORDER

Dear forumfallers,

We are happy to announce that the pre-order system is now active. Please, visit our new website

http://www.darkfallonline.com/

and take the necessary steps to pre-order the game. The procedure is fairly simple. All you have to do is provide the appropriate information. The only thing that needs to be stressed concerns our veteran players: please, be sure to tick the appropriate box when the system asks you to connect your old Darkfall Online account to your new Darkfall Unholy Wars account.

If you experience any problems, please post at this thread. We will be happy to assist you in any possible way.

See you in beta!

[UPDATE]
To all our veteran players: You need to create a new account and then link your Darkfall Online account to your new Darkfall Unholy Wars account.

[UPDATE]
Those who end up in our old website, please press Ctrl+F5. You see the old site because your browser has cached the old page.

[UPDATE]
PaySafe is not available today. We will let you know when it's implemented. Please refrain from trying to buy an account until we let you know if you're using PaySafe.

[UPDATE]
It is absolutely NECESSARY to save your serial key somewhere safe. Make a screenshot and print it, write it down, then wright it down again. You will NOT receive this serial in your email for security reasons, neither will it be shown in your Account Management page. You WILL NEED it for all your interaction with Customer Support.

Sorry I don't think I made myself clear and may have phrased it wrong.  I was under the impression we are testing a version of the game that was "released" ready.   Since it was near ready for release it would not have core game breaking bugs.  To quote AV  "  Despite considering this a setback, we actually also consider it a perfect opportunity to get the community involved directly in the fine tuning of the game features before launching on Steam".

 If you have worked in the industry the word FINE TUNING means minor bugs, minor balancing, not core game breaking bugs that were obviously not tested.  Why do I say obviously not tested ?  again another quote from AV  "While we have done a lot of internal testing for the game, the platform has been thoroughly field tested, and the game has also been tested by external partners, we have always felt that the game should be tested by the players and last checks corroborate this. Time however was not on our side".

Yes they did have to quickly put together a debug build for testing but in every game company I have worked with and evey programmer I have worked with Debug options and addons do not wreck core gameplay.  Core gameplay functions are locked down and are not touched once  they are working properly and ready for release.  The bug I refer to is the loot loss which is game breaking and is still not resolved.  

Originally posted by phantomghost

Originally posted by HeroEvermore
You can get a refund, do not listen to anyone saying you cannot. Contact your bank and say they did not gie you the product as advertised. They won't question you at all and will refund your purchase. <3

They however did give the product as described, therefore doing that is...

F

R

A

U

D

As if anyone will pursue you for fraud over a video game purchase. Did they state the game crashed all the time? Did they say it was in debug mode. All you need is 1 thing and its NOT fraud. Fact.

Originally posted by HeroEvermore

Originally posted by phantomghost

Originally posted by HeroEvermore
You can get a refund, do not listen to anyone saying you cannot. Contact your bank and say they did not gie you the product as advertised. They won't question you at all and will refund your purchase. <3

They however did give the product as described, therefore doing that is...

F

R

A

U

D

As if anyone will pursue you for fraud over a video game purchase. Did they state the game crashed all the time? Did they say it was in debug mode. All you need is 1 thing and its NOT fraud. Fact.

Umm, yes they did state the added bonus to pre-ordering was in debug mode.  The product has not crashed once.  The product is not out yet.

What's next, the character name you wanted to reserve was already taken, so you deserve a refund?

Originally posted by HeroEvermore

Originally posted by phantomghost

Originally posted by HeroEvermore
You can get a refund, do not listen to anyone saying you cannot. Contact your bank and say they did not gie you the product as advertised. They won't question you at all and will refund your purchase. <3

They however did give the product as described, therefore doing that is...

F

R

A

U

D

As if anyone will pursue you for fraud over a video game purchase. Did they state the game crashed all the time? Did they say it was in debug mode. All you need is 1 thing and its NOT fraud. Fact.

all they need to do is pursue 2-3 people and let the forum communities uproar over it and others will be hesitant to try to chargeback.

eventually someone will get caught for it just to be shown to the world.

what to you is "a video game" to them is their product. I wouldn't be very quick to write it off as unimportant. even if pursuing you comes at a loss to them, the publicity of it will discourage others. remember when blizzard ordered a guy to turn off a private server, he refused and got hit with a 44 million dollars fine for it? yes, he'll never pay that, but i bet it freaked out others a little bit...:).