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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do we need personal stories?

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68 posts found
  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/23/12 10:24:35 AM#21

What do you do when your story runs out? Seems to me its better to use your imagination long term than be given a story short term. Some of these games rip through this stuff, max level in 3 days, and then there isnt anything to do. Not what i want in my mmorp's.

Games like LoTRO has much more than story telling, so you have options. Games like TSW, SWTOR, etc you have one set path and thats about it. LoTRO is also a pretty good sized game with decent map to allow you freedom.

Just dont understand why people want mmorpgs like single player stories, why not jut go play one instead of wanting an entirely different genre to merge with single player genre, which mmo's seperated itself from long ago.

"One day i go  explore, find a mysterious place or an ancient creature. Next day i decide to craft some in an indpeth crafting system to occupy me. Day after that i run quests and level up. Well now im tired of all this so i decide to decorate my house and just take it easy for a day. Now that im refreshed i want to get some action..head out to the locale pvp area and battle it out, things get lopsided.... i can head out to something else. The freedom feels so good."

"I have to follow this path, take this set quest to continue my advancement. Down a long path with high walls on each side so that i can not explore or look around. With a handful of creatures to slay on a timer. Finaly i reach my destination and battle the boss. Wow i gots some loot. Back to the quest giver down that long linear path. No time to take it easy, must get to my next quest giver I only need 8k more xp before next level.. 5 hours later....... im max level woot, game only been out a week and i didnt need to group or talk to anyone. Now i have nothing to do but dailies, raids, and warzone 500 times in a row."

 

Can you tell which is a sandbox and which is a themepark ;) I dont get much enjoyment out of the newer themeparks at all. They are so quick and lack almost all mmorpg features now. Older themeparks offered much much more and kept players going.

 

 

"The term “themepark” brings to mind the idea of a setting with attractions to ride over and over. But no matter how many times you ride the attractions, the details just never change. If you wait several years and go back, they are right there, waiting for you...just as you left them. While this could be fun the first few times, it gets boring quick and you could find yourself looking at other themeparks for new and more exciting rides.

The concept of a themepark MMO is much the same. Heavily driven by developers from the very start, new players begin with a set path to follow. The developer controls the experience, from the first time a player logs in with a new character and every time after, until that character achieves the level cap for that particular game. Developers restrict the attractions offered, often only allowing one ride at a time. In other words, once on there’s no turning back until the ride stops!"

 

"The “Sandbox” MMO is a quite different beast from the theme park MMO. The sandbox MMO is designed as a frame that players can play in and a big toolbox that allows them to make their own content. In a sandbox MMO you will find very few quests that fill out your leveling experience and it will be much more up to yourself to decide where you want to go and do said leveling. The experience that sandbox MMO’s generally aim to provide is that of a truly massive and open world for the players to explore and form for themselves. These games really appeal to our lust for exploration and pioneering spirit"

Im the later, im very creative, love exploration even in real life, and just like the overall freedom. Perhaps one of the reasons i can never get into a themepark. Maybe thats what has ruined my experience with the newer games. I like using my brain, solving puzzles, crafting new and exciting items, finding lost city, etc...  What are you guys? What has had a huge impact on your feelings or play style. Do think TSW is about the only newer game (minus rift) that i liked, because you need to think and solve things. But taking my time, as i know the story will run out eventualy :(

 

And this isnt attacking one or the other, just curious to why people choose one oer the other.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/23/12 10:29:51 AM#22
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by elocke
I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

Maybe because he is not a MMO purist and is going with the flow? MMOS have eveolved and are still changing and are not confined into rigid definitions or rule sets anymore. 

They havent evolved, they went backwards. Thats why newer console single player games offer more content than new mmo's? Think thats the opposite. Fuinny how newer mmorpgs tell you content hours now on previews like old single player games did in the past. Its sad. MMORPG's shouldnt have an expiration date lol.

And the definitions are pretty clear and think they hold up nicely in todays market still. Themepark, sandbox, mmorpg, mmo, mog, mmofps, mmorts........... Dont think we need to change anything because a few people cant understand what they mean or want to change everything around for themselves.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1294

12/23/12 10:32:37 AM#23

I actually land in both catagories, i enjoy both Sandbox and Themepark. However ive seen sandboxes crumble and fail so i have a idea of whats needed to make them succesful. Which is a opening PVE area with a story and quests to get you a idea of how the universe works. without it instead of what you explained happening it would look more like this.

 

"i Wake up and venture into the world, upon leaving my house i see 30 people screaming LOL and ROFL while killing eachother. I sneak around and attempt to enter a city where i see more of the same. i eventually find some open ground i can explore however, I find it nice so i continue. While exploring 3 people jump me from behind and i die quickly. I wake up later and see i have mail. inside i have 14 messages all saying "lol you suck L2P noob""

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Zalmon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 323

12/23/12 10:36:00 AM#24
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by elocke
I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

Maybe because he is not a MMO purist and is going with the flow? MMOS have eveolved and are still changing and are not confined into rigid definitions or rule sets anymore. 

They havent evolved, they went backwards. Thats why newer console single player games offer more content than new mmo's? Think thats the opposite. Fuinny how newer mmorpgs tell you content hours now on previews like old single player games did in the past. Its sad. MMORPG's shouldnt have an expiration date lol.

And the definitions are pretty clear and think they hold up nicely in todays market still. Themepark, sandbox, mmorpg, mmo, mog, mmofps, mmorts........... Dont think we need to change anything because a few people cant understand what they mean or want to change everything around for themselves.

Subjective and matter of opinion.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/23/12 10:37:30 AM#25
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by elocke
I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

Maybe because he is not a MMO purist and is going with the flow? MMOS have eveolved and are still changing and are not confined into rigid definitions or rule sets anymore. 

They havent evolved, they went backwards. Thats why newer console single player games offer more content than new mmo's? Think thats the opposite. Fuinny how newer mmorpgs tell you content hours now on previews like old single player games did in the past. Its sad. MMORPG's shouldnt have an expiration date lol.

And the definitions are pretty clear and think they hold up nicely in todays market still. Themepark, sandbox, mmorpg, mmo, mog, mmofps, mmorts........... Dont think we need to change anything because a few people cant understand what they mean or want to change everything around for themselves.

Subjective and matter of opinion.

As was yours ;)

  Saur0n

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 73

12/23/12 10:40:15 AM#26
Originally posted by Onomas

What do you do when your story runs out? Seems to me its better to use your imagination long term than be given a story short term. Some of these games rip through this stuff, max level in 3 days, and then there isnt anything to do. Not what i want in my mmorp's.

Games like LoTRO has much more than story telling, so you have options. Games like TSW, SWTOR, etc you have one set path and thats about it. LoTRO is also a pretty good sized game with decent map to allow you freedom.

Just dont understand why people want mmorpgs like single player stories, why not jut go play one instead of wanting an entirely different genre to merge with single player genre, which mmo's seperated itself from long ago.

"One day i go  explore, find a mysterious place or an ancient creature. Next day i decide to craft some in an indpeth crafting system to occupy me. Day after that i run quests and level up. Well now im tired of all this so i decide to decorate my house and just take it easy for a day. Now that im refreshed i want to get some action..head out to the locale pvp area and battle it out, things get lopsided.... i can head out to something else. The freedom feels so good."

"I have to follow this path, take this set quest to continue my advancement. Down a long path with high walls on each side so that i can not explore or look around. With a handful of creatures to slay on a timer. Finaly i reach my destination and battle the boss. Wow i gots some loot. Back to the quest giver down that long linear path. No time to take it easy, must get to my next quest giver I only need 8k more xp before next level.. 5 hours later....... im max level woot, game only been out a week and i didnt need to group or talk to anyone. Now i have nothing to do but dailies, raids, and warzone 500 times in a row."

 

Can you tell which is a sandbox and which is a themepark ;) I dont get much enjoyment out of the newer themeparks at all. They are so quick and lack almost all mmorpg features now. Older themeparks offered much much more and kept players going.

 

 

"The term “themepark” brings to mind the idea of a setting with attractions to ride over and over. But no matter how many times you ride the attractions, the details just never change. If you wait several years and go back, they are right there, waiting for you...just as you left them. While this could be fun the first few times, it gets boring quick and you could find yourself looking at other themeparks for new and more exciting rides.

The concept of a themepark MMO is much the same. Heavily driven by developers from the very start, new players begin with a set path to follow. The developer controls the experience, from the first time a player logs in with a new character and every time after, until that character achieves the level cap for that particular game. Developers restrict the attractions offered, often only allowing one ride at a time. In other words, once on there’s no turning back until the ride stops!"

 

"The “Sandbox” MMO is a quite different beast from the theme park MMO. The sandbox MMO is designed as a frame that players can play in and a big toolbox that allows them to make their own content. In a sandbox MMO you will find very few quests that fill out your leveling experience and it will be much more up to yourself to decide where you want to go and do said leveling. The experience that sandbox MMO’s generally aim to provide is that of a truly massive and open world for the players to explore and form for themselves. These games really appeal to our lust for exploration and pioneering spirit"

Im the later, im very creative, love exploration even in real life, and just like the overall freedom. Perhaps one of the reasons i can never get into a themepark. Maybe thats what has ruined my experience with the newer games. I like using my brain, solving puzzles, crafting new and exciting items, finding lost city, etc...  What are you guys? What has had a huge impact on your feelings or play style. Do think TSW is about the only newer game (minus rift) that i liked, because you need to think and solve things. But taking my time, as i know the story will run out eventualy :(

 

And this isnt attacking one or the other, just curious to why people choose one oer the other.

That's why I will always love Ultima Online.  You had to think before you act.  Modern mmorpgs just leave you feeling like a zombie being led by the nose from quest to quest and zone to zone and by end game you've seen all the content without even knowing it.

  Scarfe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 287

 
OP  12/23/12 10:41:13 AM#27
Originally posted by Rayshe

I actually land in both catagories, i enjoy both Sandbox and Themepark. However ive seen sandboxes crumble and fail so i have a idea of whats needed to make them succesful. Which is a opening PVE area with a story and quests to get you a idea of how the universe works. without it instead of what you explained happening it would look more like this.

 

"i Wake up and venture into the world, upon leaving my house i see 30 people screaming LOL and ROFL while killing eachother. I sneak around and attempt to enter a city where i see more of the same. i eventually find some open ground i can explore however, I find it nice so i continue. While exploring 3 people jump me from behind and i die quickly. I wake up later and see i have mail. inside i have 14 messages all saying "lol you suck L2P noob""

This wasn't the intent of my original post.  I like quests and I like stories; what I do not like is the general move toward single-player type 'you as the hero' personal stories. 

currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/23/12 10:41:19 AM#28
Originally posted by Rayshe

I actually land in both catagories, i enjoy both Sandbox and Themepark. However ive seen sandboxes crumble and fail so i have a idea of whats needed to make them succesful. Which is a opening PVE area with a story and quests to get you a idea of how the universe works. without it instead of what you explained happening it would look more like this.

 

"i Wake up and venture into the world, upon leaving my house i see 30 people screaming LOL and ROFL while killing eachother. I sneak around and attempt to enter a city where i see more of the same. i eventually find some open ground i can explore however, I find it nice so i continue. While exploring 3 people jump me from behind and i die quickly. I wake up later and see i have mail. inside i have 14 messages all saying "lol you suck L2P noob""

I like your reply.

Actualy some sandboxes do offer starting quests and things to get you rolling. Some also offer story, just not an in depth as themeparks.

And sandboxes doesnt mean open world full loot pvp lol ;) Majority of sandboxes at this stage do not have this. Some of the newer ones do, but arent full loot. Some also provide protection by levels, jail system, and protective areas.

pvp is fun, but i hate full loot. Glad most these sandboxes arent like that. Rather have the pvp system, a good one, in place. Than neglect any part of the game.

 

Long as everyone is happy, but as a community we have to meet in the middle. Some just dont like that idea.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1294

12/23/12 10:42:53 AM#29
Originally posted by Saur0n
Originally posted by Onomas

What do you do when your story runs out? Seems to me its better to use your imagination long term than be given a story short term. Some of these games rip through this stuff, max level in 3 days, and then there isnt anything to do. Not what i want in my mmorp's.

Games like LoTRO has much more than story telling, so you have options. Games like TSW, SWTOR, etc you have one set path and thats about it. LoTRO is also a pretty good sized game with decent map to allow you freedom.

Just dont understand why people want mmorpgs like single player stories, why not jut go play one instead of wanting an entirely different genre to merge with single player genre, which mmo's seperated itself from long ago.

"One day i go  explore, find a mysterious place or an ancient creature. Next day i decide to craft some in an indpeth crafting system to occupy me. Day after that i run quests and level up. Well now im tired of all this so i decide to decorate my house and just take it easy for a day. Now that im refreshed i want to get some action..head out to the locale pvp area and battle it out, things get lopsided.... i can head out to something else. The freedom feels so good."

"I have to follow this path, take this set quest to continue my advancement. Down a long path with high walls on each side so that i can not explore or look around. With a handful of creatures to slay on a timer. Finaly i reach my destination and battle the boss. Wow i gots some loot. Back to the quest giver down that long linear path. No time to take it easy, must get to my next quest giver I only need 8k more xp before next level.. 5 hours later....... im max level woot, game only been out a week and i didnt need to group or talk to anyone. Now i have nothing to do but dailies, raids, and warzone 500 times in a row."

 

Can you tell which is a sandbox and which is a themepark ;) I dont get much enjoyment out of the newer themeparks at all. They are so quick and lack almost all mmorpg features now. Older themeparks offered much much more and kept players going.

 

 

"The term “themepark” brings to mind the idea of a setting with attractions to ride over and over. But no matter how many times you ride the attractions, the details just never change. If you wait several years and go back, they are right there, waiting for you...just as you left them. While this could be fun the first few times, it gets boring quick and you could find yourself looking at other themeparks for new and more exciting rides.

The concept of a themepark MMO is much the same. Heavily driven by developers from the very start, new players begin with a set path to follow. The developer controls the experience, from the first time a player logs in with a new character and every time after, until that character achieves the level cap for that particular game. Developers restrict the attractions offered, often only allowing one ride at a time. In other words, once on there’s no turning back until the ride stops!"

 

"The “Sandbox” MMO is a quite different beast from the theme park MMO. The sandbox MMO is designed as a frame that players can play in and a big toolbox that allows them to make their own content. In a sandbox MMO you will find very few quests that fill out your leveling experience and it will be much more up to yourself to decide where you want to go and do said leveling. The experience that sandbox MMO’s generally aim to provide is that of a truly massive and open world for the players to explore and form for themselves. These games really appeal to our lust for exploration and pioneering spirit"

Im the later, im very creative, love exploration even in real life, and just like the overall freedom. Perhaps one of the reasons i can never get into a themepark. Maybe thats what has ruined my experience with the newer games. I like using my brain, solving puzzles, crafting new and exciting items, finding lost city, etc...  What are you guys? What has had a huge impact on your feelings or play style. Do think TSW is about the only newer game (minus rift) that i liked, because you need to think and solve things. But taking my time, as i know the story will run out eventualy :(

 

And this isnt attacking one or the other, just curious to why people choose one oer the other.

That's why I will always love Ultima Online.  You had to think before you act.  Modern mmorpgs just leave you feeling like a zombie being led by the nose from quest to quest and zone to zone and by end game you've seen all the content without even knowing it.

However the current community is different now. Ultima Online didnt have to deal with all the casuals coming in and treating the game like a Team Deathmatch title. If the same game was released now it would be a open gank fest. Im not condemning the game, im just saying due to the influx of Call of Duty gamers our chances at having a successful Sandbox are Significantly Diminished

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Saur0n

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 73

12/23/12 10:47:11 AM#30
I think SWG was able to find common ground.  Despite all the screw ups its community stayed the same and made it work...for the most part.
  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1294

12/23/12 10:52:20 AM#31
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by Rayshe

I actually land in both catagories, i enjoy both Sandbox and Themepark. However ive seen sandboxes crumble and fail so i have a idea of whats needed to make them succesful. Which is a opening PVE area with a story and quests to get you a idea of how the universe works. without it instead of what you explained happening it would look more like this.

 

"i Wake up and venture into the world, upon leaving my house i see 30 people screaming LOL and ROFL while killing eachother. I sneak around and attempt to enter a city where i see more of the same. i eventually find some open ground i can explore however, I find it nice so i continue. While exploring 3 people jump me from behind and i die quickly. I wake up later and see i have mail. inside i have 14 messages all saying "lol you suck L2P noob""

I like your reply.

Actualy some sandboxes do offer starting quests and things to get you rolling. Some also offer story, just not an in depth as themeparks.

And sandboxes doesnt mean open world full loot pvp lol ;) Majority of sandboxes at this stage do not have this. Some of the newer ones do, but arent full loot. Some also provide protection by levels, jail system, and protective areas.

pvp is fun, but i hate full loot. Glad most these sandboxes arent like that. Rather have the pvp system, a good one, in place. Than neglect any part of the game.

 

Long as everyone is happy, but as a community we have to meet in the middle. Some just dont like that idea.

OH believe me i get that. however the more restrictions added in the less there is to do in the game. I personally dont agree with Full loot either. While its a interesting idea, it tends to push things deeper into the gank fest idea. Having just the gear you are currently wearing drop when you die im ok with. given that you can protect your inventory abit. When i look at a sandbox game, i see that Face of Mankind could have been one the best titles ever released for it. Every Item needed to be made by a player, Politics and factions were all player run. The police force was player run. There wasn't any AI in the game at all. NOw while AI could still be added without effecting these things, The thing that killed the game was a lack of a opening. the game quickly became "who are we going to war with this week"

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  killion81

Elite Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

12/23/12 10:55:23 AM#32
Originally posted by Onomas

What do you do when your story runs out? Seems to me its better to use your imagination long term than be given a story short term. Some of these games rip through this stuff, max level in 3 days, and then there isnt anything to do. Not what i want in my mmorp's.

Games like LoTRO has much more than story telling, so you have options. Games like TSW, SWTOR, etc you have one set path and thats about it. LoTRO is also a pretty good sized game with decent map to allow you freedom.

Just dont understand why people want mmorpgs like single player stories, why not jut go play one instead of wanting an entirely different genre to merge with single player genre, which mmo's seperated itself from long ago.

"One day i go  explore, find a mysterious place or an ancient creature. Next day i decide to craft some in an indpeth crafting system to occupy me. Day after that i run quests and level up. Well now im tired of all this so i decide to decorate my house and just take it easy for a day. Now that im refreshed i want to get some action..head out to the locale pvp area and battle it out, things get lopsided.... i can head out to something else. The freedom feels so good."

"I have to follow this path, take this set quest to continue my advancement. Down a long path with high walls on each side so that i can not explore or look around. With a handful of creatures to slay on a timer. Finaly i reach my destination and battle the boss. Wow i gots some loot. Back to the quest giver down that long linear path. No time to take it easy, must get to my next quest giver I only need 8k more xp before next level.. 5 hours later....... im max level woot, game only been out a week and i didnt need to group or talk to anyone. Now i have nothing to do but dailies, raids, and warzone 500 times in a row."

 

Can you tell which is a sandbox and which is a themepark ;) I dont get much enjoyment out of the newer themeparks at all. They are so quick and lack almost all mmorpg features now. Older themeparks offered much much more and kept players going.

 

 

"The term “themepark” brings to mind the idea of a setting with attractions to ride over and over. But no matter how many times you ride the attractions, the details just never change. If you wait several years and go back, they are right there, waiting for you...just as you left them. While this could be fun the first few times, it gets boring quick and you could find yourself looking at other themeparks for new and more exciting rides.

The concept of a themepark MMO is much the same. Heavily driven by developers from the very start, new players begin with a set path to follow. The developer controls the experience, from the first time a player logs in with a new character and every time after, until that character achieves the level cap for that particular game. Developers restrict the attractions offered, often only allowing one ride at a time. In other words, once on there’s no turning back until the ride stops!"

 

"The “Sandbox” MMO is a quite different beast from the theme park MMO. The sandbox MMO is designed as a frame that players can play in and a big toolbox that allows them to make their own content. In a sandbox MMO you will find very few quests that fill out your leveling experience and it will be much more up to yourself to decide where you want to go and do said leveling. The experience that sandbox MMO’s generally aim to provide is that of a truly massive and open world for the players to explore and form for themselves. These games really appeal to our lust for exploration and pioneering spirit"

Im the later, im very creative, love exploration even in real life, and just like the overall freedom. Perhaps one of the reasons i can never get into a themepark. Maybe thats what has ruined my experience with the newer games. I like using my brain, solving puzzles, crafting new and exciting items, finding lost city, etc...  What are you guys? What has had a huge impact on your feelings or play style. Do think TSW is about the only newer game (minus rift) that i liked, because you need to think and solve things. But taking my time, as i know the story will run out eventualy :(

 

And this isnt attacking one or the other, just curious to why people choose one oer the other.

 

I'm not sure a full sandbox could work with the current MMORPG audience.  If you've ever read fan fiction or browsed through player made mods for just about any game, you may notice that the quality of work is somewhat lacking.  It's certainly not what I would want to see in my MMORPGs. (Side note: There are some REALLY good modders out there, I acknowledge this and they are not included for the purposes of this discussion)

I believe the best route a MMORPG world could take is a controlled sandbox.  What I mean by that is many sandbox elements, but robust tools that can only be applied in a certain number of ways.  That number could be pretty large, but every way has to make sense and do something to add to the game.  It would probably be a logistics nightmare.  However, it would probably also have the best chance of pushing sandbox elements into the modern online gaming market.

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

12/23/12 10:59:11 AM#33

IF you got good gameplay and enough to do in your game, you don't need to have a personal story. Just world Lore and World story, picked up on through missions/quest backlog etc. FFXI did it pretty good. It had world story, not personal story. It would have advanced even if my "Adventurer" wasn't involved. 

World story is much better than personal story. If you want a personal story play a singleplayer game or a Co-Op. We seriously need to get away from these Single Player Online RPG's. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  Zalmon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 323

12/23/12 11:38:03 AM#34
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by elocke
I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

Maybe because he is not a MMO purist and is going with the flow? MMOS have eveolved and are still changing and are not confined into rigid definitions or rule sets anymore. 

They havent evolved, they went backwards. Thats why newer console single player games offer more content than new mmo's? Think thats the opposite. Fuinny how newer mmorpgs tell you content hours now on previews like old single player games did in the past. Its sad. MMORPG's shouldnt have an expiration date lol.

And the definitions are pretty clear and think they hold up nicely in todays market still. Themepark, sandbox, mmorpg, mmo, mog, mmofps, mmorts........... Dont think we need to change anything because a few people cant understand what they mean or want to change everything around for themselves.

Subjective and matter of opinion.

As was yours ;)

I never pretended otherwise;)

But which part though? that MMOS have changed over the years and devs don't like their MMOS to be confined in rigid boundaries or that they are going backwards? because former is not an opinion but something that is actually happening.(Star Citizen is latest example).whereas later part is an opinion.

  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

12/23/12 11:42:20 AM#35
I want memories not stories. Let a players story be told through his or her actions. Ill say it again, not everyone's a hero.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1294

12/23/12 11:50:48 AM#36
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
I want memories not stories. Let a players story be told through his or her actions. Ill say it again, not everyone's a hero.

A personal story doesnt have to make your a hero. It can however help you in learning the basic Atmosphere of the game. Think of it as a Single Player Tutorial that teaches you what to expect.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  User Deleted
12/23/12 12:00:15 PM#37

I have a personal story...it's call my life.

I really don't need a replacement...I play games to get a short break from my personal story so I can decompress.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16944

12/23/12 12:12:42 PM#38
Originally posted by Scarfe

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a story-driven single player game; I just don't need them in my mmo's.  I have three principal issues:- 

Firstly, it always seems slightly absurd that I am 'the' hero, when I know full well that the hundreds of people who completed the quest before me, and the ten people gathered around me speaking to my npc, are also the same hero. 

Secondly, the stories are generally too prescriptive.  My character is no longer my own, it is performing someone elses actions and speaking someone elses lines. 

Finally, it is bloody expensive.  Voice acting and cutscenes on every little 'kill ten rats' quest (SWTOR) drains money that could be better spent on more mmo-y features. 

They are my thoughts on the matter, please feel free to add your own.   

 

1, that's because some players have difficulty with the idea that there are two parts to these story driven games. That's the You are the hero" part which is for the benefit of the single player and the "you are in an mmo and once you start interacting with other players, the first part is soley about you and that's it".

This is also where the role play part comes in. Essentially you as a player know your character has done all these things but it's left unsaid. The real issue is that these stories are about engaging individual players (where applicable) or a small group. In many ways they fall outside the massive and multiplayer idea. At least how they are usually done in these games.

2, This is the fault of the developer. They don't allow for individual choices because that would mean developing many different outcomes.

3, I actuallly don't buy this. At least on face value. X amount of dollars are put aside for different parts of development. A budget is created for every aspcect of a project.

If 10 million dollars is set aside for voice acting (or whatever it costs) and the voice acting is completely scrubbed, you aren't going to then have an extra 10 million to pump into other aspects of the game.

Whatever costs were set for each game play element will stand until such time it is deemed necessary to add money (if available).

 

There are two separate things here. 1, why are other mmo game play elements not developed as well as some players would want and 2, Is it worth it to have a huge fully voiced story.

  drivendawn

Elite Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 857

12/23/12 12:15:14 PM#39
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by elocke
I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

Because the MMOnes is gone,having a guild, parties for dungeons, NM's, large scale pvp, dynamic events with plenty of players involved the list goes on. You know for people that like open non linear style of play you sure think linear for what styles of games belong to which genre.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3702

12/23/12 12:26:16 PM#40
Originally posted by Scarfe

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a story-driven single player game; I just don't need them in my mmo's.  I have three principal issues:- 

Firstly, it always seems slightly absurd that I am 'the' hero, when I know full well that the hundreds of people who completed the quest before me, and the ten people gathered around me speaking to my npc, are also the same hero. 

Secondly, the stories are generally too prescriptive.  My character is no longer my own, it is performing someone elses actions and speaking someone elses lines. 

Finally, it is bloody expensive.  Voice acting and cutscenes on every little 'kill ten rats' quest (SWTOR) drains money that could be better spent on more mmo-y features. 

They are my thoughts on the matter, please feel free to add your own.   

 

Personal? No. Stories? Yes.

Part of what makes an MMO good is having a consistent well-crafted story in both the macro World and the individual interactions with the environment. At the opposite end of the spctrum from SWTOR is the cheaply developed sandbox where they just give you a place to play with little or no context...that is equally annoying, specially when the only player-created memories are who leveled the fastest and ganked everyone else.

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