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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Even after all the horrible PR, EA says: "[Lifeday items] are limited time offers, so now is the time to jump In."

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122 posts found
  mrrshann618

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 199

1/02/13 8:56:10 AM#61

At a month and a half MOST games stull sucked eggs when converting to a f2p stance as they are still ironing out bugs.

Everyone seems to be confusing the f2p that they are offering with something more than they are really offereing. I'm sorry to say this to all you deluded masses the delivered EXACTLY what they promised. They flatly said we are going to offer you the story to try out our game.

The warzones are bonus, The flashboints are bonus, being able to wear epic gear so you can be "uber" is a bonus. You can complete all aspects of the game wearing greens. YOU DO NOT NEED SUPER UBER COOL GEAR to actually play that is your own shortcommings when it comes to playstyle. I'm sorry that everyone NEEDS to be in purples becuase they cannot actually play unless they can "best" the computer AI with over the top stats for things the same level.

I played vanilla wow with greens on till 50. Was able to do it just fine with the exception of the snotty eliteists who needed a frelling gear score.

Cash shops, ALL CASH SHOPS FOR EVERY GAME, are a blatant siphoning of money if you think they care about where that money comes from you live in the world of rose tinted glasses when looking at your favorite game. No one has to agree with the model, no one is forcing you to play. so Why is it in just about every single thread there are people who come in here and berate the companies choice over and over and over. Do they feel they NEED to bring about the demise of the company. If the play model is as bad as they say it is they obviously do not need any help.

SoE f2p model is not the light in the darkness.

Perfect Worlds f2p model is not the light in the darkness.

Turbines f2p is not the light in the darkness.

All of their cash shops are aimed at one thing, to part you from your money. just becuase they give you a warm fuzzy glow does not mean they are any better. Holiday events are nothing as well. I, and I'm sure many others, have not logged into a game specifically for a holiday event. Mind you there are people who religiously do, that is their own cup of tea.

 

Superniceguy, you constantly say that you do not play. Are you an analyst? or do you single out SWTOR? Havn't you noticed that content acroos the board, in most games, are comming slower and slower at this time. Why is that? possibly becuase many companies are working on new projects? many studios are not huge gigantic studios like Blizzard. How long was it between "content upgrades" on STO? 6 months apart roughly? I've played STO since around season 5. Overall nothing huge has changed. in Rift Terms each season is tiny compared to say Ember isle. By your avatar you are an obvious SWTOR hater and "obviously" nothing is going to change that.

Let people spend money where they want, not where you (just just singling out superniceguy) want. If people want to spend it on FE, or GW2, or Rift, Let them. why do people feel the need to make themselves bigger becuase "someone invested in a worthless game".

In order for a game to grow, there needs to be investment. In order for a game to advance, there needs to be investment. In order for a game to improve, there needs to be investment. Speed is only an issue if you WANT to make it one. Wow's First true investment was Burning Crusade, that was announced in 2005, and released in 2007, bet you it was in development far longer than when it was first announced. That seems to me far longer than many of the modern release schedules. People need to grow up, stop being content locusts, appreciate everything about a game. As other posts/threads are pointing out, in order for content to be developed properly the company needs to know what to develop. no company wants to spend a year on development to find out that people hate it (like cataclysm).

So why is development slow? easy In a consumer atmosphere and economic climate that is currently in place, not many companies can throw money away on a flop release. "Fresh new content" means crap if that contant is not properly in place. Money and time is lost on a crap release, both of which are "to expensive" currently. So why are companies bleeding cash shops? easy it is effortless revenue so they can either A) cut and run (and no company is above this, EA cannot be singled out here) or B) used to produce new content that may take a while.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/02/13 9:26:21 AM#62
EA don't support their mmos.

All this money you pay in a cash shop just goes to get back their investment, it will never manifest itself as a cool as duck must buy expansion.

Expect expansions to be along the lines if what they did with warhammer, more things to buy In the cash shop, additional levels to grind with out actual real content forcing you to pay or you get left behind, removal of features they can't be arsed to make work - ilum in swtor, forts in war.

This is the ea way.
  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4779

1/02/13 9:31:02 AM#63
Originally posted by ShakyMo
EA don't support their mmos.

All this money you pay in a cash shop just goes to get back their investment, it will never manifest itself as a cool as duck must buy expansion.

Expect expansions to be along the lines if what they did with warhammer, more things to buy In the cash shop, additional levels to grind with out actual real content forcing you to pay or you get left behind, removal of features they can't be arsed to make work - ilum in swtor, forts in war.

This is the ea way.

This ^

I'm surprised people are STILL defending the EA SWTOR model of F2P. There are right and wrong ways to implement F2P people, and EA is doing it in one of the worst ways. The whole point of the F2P model (and why it actually works for a lot of games), is that you aren't paying to play the game, but rather paying for convenience / cosmetics. Putting caps on literally everything in the game from the UI, to battlegrounds is a horrible way to have the F2P model. Even some of the most notorious F2P games don't have such blatant restrictions.

I don't think anyone wishes ill of Bioware employees, but supporting such business models is bad for everyone.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/02/13 10:08:56 AM#64
Originally posted by Darklighter1
[mod edit]

The game already has failed, they have switched the game to F2P, laid off staff already and the founders have left Bioware and the gaming industry all together, something no one would do on any kind of success.

But if you mean fail as in shut down ...

Anyone working on the game will either move on out of EA/BW if they have any sense, or EA/Bioware will put existing employees to another game, should it get shut down, as that is what happened when SWG shut down, SOE devs, forums mods, staff now work on other games.

I do not want the game to shut down, but all the lack of attention EA/BW is putting into the game is signs that it will not last long, and what is the point in spending time/money on a game that is not going to last? Already done it with SWG and COH, and not getting shafted again, and I do not want anyone else suffering the same anguish. If people are enjoying the game, and spending money on it as they enjoy it even though it may shut down later this year then fair enough, but if they think it is going to last for years, and their money is going to towards supporting the game, then they need to be aware that it might not be, due to the games unique heavy running costs, which no other MMO is burdened with.

If content was coming thick and fast as it has been doing in EVERY single other MMO released in the last 10 years or so, even after just being turned into F2P, they still kept the content coming, PLUS they state that the game need $7.5 million per month to break even, and that its current state was "not good enough", then I would play this game even if all servers were dead. The servers are not dead, and apprently they are raking it in, but still content gets held off until Spring 2013 instead of being in now, when it should and could be.

 

 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/02/13 10:18:21 AM#65
For the record, I don't thinly it will shut down.

It IS in maintainance mode though, and will stay this way.

Again this is how ea work, once they make a mmo they consider it done, you'll never see ea pumping out monthly content patches even if they had a successful mmo.

Also don't be suprised to see the same people in charge on the next mmo, ea seem to use the peter principle - I mean Jeff hickman case in point
  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/02/13 10:29:56 AM#66
Originally posted by ShakyMo
For the record, I don't thinly it will shut down.

It IS in maintainance mode though, and will stay this way.

Again this is how ea work, once they make a mmo they consider it done, you'll never see ea pumping out monthly content patches even if they had a successful mmo.

Also don't be suprised to see the same people in charge on the next mmo, ea seem to use the peter principle - I mean Jeff hickman case in point

It all depends on the SW licence. and how much of a profit it is getting.

If the game costs millions to develop, I would imagine that EA would have bought a short term licence inititally, and then planned to buy a longer one with the profits.

If it was not for the licence SWG would have kept running too, as SOE wanted to keep the game running, but the devs working on SWG were awesome, they worked on the game in their own time and in the middle of the night, they were told many times to go to bed by forum posters.  I am not seeing EA/BW being so enthusiastic, and they have not been so far.

I would have thought they would have had some stuff in the pipepline after 6 months, even it it was not due until the end of the year, but as there has been nothing, it is not a good sign

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/02/13 10:33:57 AM#67
Well bioware might have had the enthusiasm, but bioware don't really exist anymore much like mythic. The talent has left, all that remains are the brown nosers, corporate bullshitters and lowly paid juniors.
  mrrshann618

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 199

1/02/13 11:25:27 AM#68
Originally posted by colddog04

 

[mod edit]

 

I love this, essentially what you are saying is that what I find enjoyable is wrong.

If I go to a racetrack and spend money knowing full well I can lose, does that deminish my fun? NOPE I'm willingly going there to dop whatever. I do not expect you to sit and berrate me for that choice. Just becuase 1 race track pays out dividends or handles bets a certain way does not mean all tracks should do the same.

I'm currently playing the swtor f2p as they have dictated. I haven't spent a dime since f2p. It doesn't mean I cannot enjoy a free game. f2p model is a stopgap, but I can enjoy a game no matter the f2p model. EQ2's f2p (with no unlocks) at my glance for the time I tried is just as restrictive if not more so. How I boycot their model, I do not play, I do not go into the EQ boards and spout how you all need to wake up and stop supporting EQ. You want to spend money on that "sub-par" game (imho) then you are frree to do so. I'm not going to call your game crap becuase I do not enjoy it. I'm going to let you play.

That is all I've ever asked for. That is all I've ever actually defended.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2775

1/02/13 11:36:52 AM#69
I have an idea.  Just stop playing and paying attention to what they do with the game.  I've done that with LOTRO and have been much happier that way.  There's nothing that Turbine can do at this point to bother or interest me.  The same goes for EA and SWTOR and Funcom and AoC.  Funcom lost a lot of potential customers for TSW thanks to their AoC launch fiasco.  I expect the same affect for EA and Turbine as well.
  Ryukan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 711

1/02/13 11:45:46 AM#70
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
I have an idea.  Just stop playing and paying attention to what they do with the game.  I've done that with LOTRO and have been much happier that way.  There's nothing that Turbine can do at this point to bother or interest me.  The same goes for EA and SWTOR and Funcom and AoC.  Funcom lost a lot of potential customers for TSW thanks to their AoC launch fiasco.  I expect the same affect for EA and Turbine as well.

 I feel quite similar; I have stopped playing MMO's for the time being because they all just end up feeling boring. I have TSW, GW2, and LotRO installed and no urge to play any of them very much at all anymore. I had SWTOR installed, but I tried it when it first came out and came back to try the F2P and uninstalled it for the last time. I have been playing the other MMO's on and off very little; I just watch them now to see how they continue to develop and hope a good sandbox MMO comes out. ArcheAge or The Repopulation maybe...nothing else really looks that interesting.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/02/13 11:47:23 AM#71
Originally posted by mrrshann618
Originally posted by colddog04

 

The more that people like you defend these shysters, the less likely they are to be held accountable.

 Supporters like you are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.

 

I love this, essentially what you are saying is that what I find enjoyable is wrong.

If I go to a racetrack and spend money knowing full well I can lose, does that deminish my fun? NOPE I'm willingly going there to dop whatever. I do not expect you to sit and berrate me for that choice. Just becuase 1 race track pays out dividends or handles bets a certain way does not mean all tracks should do the same.

I'm currently playing the swtor f2p as they have dictated. I haven't spent a dime since f2p. It doesn't mean I cannot enjoy a free game. f2p model is a stopgap, but I can enjoy a game no matter the f2p model. EQ2's f2p (with no unlocks) at my glance for the time I tried is just as restrictive if not more so. How I boycot their model, I do not play, I do not go into the EQ boards and spout how you all need to wake up and stop supporting EQ. You want to spend money on that "sub-par" game (imho) then you are frree to do so. I'm not going to call your game crap becuase I do not enjoy it. I'm going to let you play.

That is all I've ever asked for. That is all I've ever actually defended.

That is not how I read it.

Liking a game and paying and playing it is one thing, but defending it when it is obvioulsty bad is something else. I rarely visited these forums when i played SWG to  try and defend it - it was a lost cause, as I understood why people did not like it, but I did.

We post our issues with the game, in case these things can be fixed, and what would be nice if the "defenders" would acknowledge our issues, and pass on our issues to EA/Bw on the official forums saying something like "I like what you do, and I am going to pay and play SWTOR no matter what, but if you did <insert our complaints> then I know others wouild come and play too" but no, all we get is "There is nothing wrong with the game at all, and all you haters can just get lost"

This is a MMO, that has the ability to change at the hands of BW/EA devs, through feedback, not a single player game that generally does not get updated, with the excepttion of the Mass Effect 3 ending.

  mrrshann618

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 199

1/02/13 12:29:01 PM#72

The thing is that people are attacking the f2p model because it is to restrictive. However they are giving exactly what they said they were going to give. To log into a game, full knowing what you are going to get, full knowing how restrictive it is, and then bitching that it is to restrictive is cutting off the nose to spite the face.

In this sense am I defending the company, YES, but because they are giving you the product as they said they would, nothing more. I'm defending it becuase they sold you the car without the wheels after they told you the wheels were not included. How can you get mad at the company when the individual was the one who didn't want to understand for whatever reason.

One of my first (bad) experiences in an MMO was to have someone look at my gear and tell me I was playing wrong. How can you play wrong? if you are having fun, who cares if it is not the FotM.

colddog04 stated that since I play, I don't hate, Since I do not hate, I defend, Since I defend, I support, Since I support I'm what's wrong with the industry. I do take offense at that because you are telling me that my choices are wrong, even though they are opinnion.

Let me tell you a little story. A bunch of friends and I went to see Godzilla when it came out. They were all excited to go see it and I could have cared less. They thought the movies was absolute crap, their expectation was set to high. I thought the move was entertaining and not bad at all, my expectations were far lower. I didn't look at cinematic angles while they did. I didn't look at the budget towards the movie, but they did. Moral of the story. Just because the hype states AAA quality it is still down to personal opinnion and expectations.

 

I enjoy SWTOR for what it is. I wasn't expecting SWG2, I wasn't expecting a WoW killer, I wasn't expecting the newest invoation in creating slushies, and I was not dissapointed. I understood the f2p model, again not disapointed. To me it isn't a BAD game, no matter how many people say it is. I do not care about what the media says, most of them are jaded or slanted in one way or the other so there is hardly any real opinnion. For every defense, I can find an attack. For every stellar review I can find one that states it is donkey manure.

 

I do acknowledge you issues, and most I dismiss, and give reasons why. I'm sorry that people cannot accept my dismissials for what I state they are "PERSONAL OPINNION"

Gear coloring issues - personal preferance

2 UI bars - not an issue it is 2 active not 2 total. There are ways around it, I'm sorry you do not WANT to utilize those ways around becuase you have to have it YOUR way.

Can't have uber gear - once again gear does not effect the f2p model as it can all be done with basic stuff. only personal prefereance involved.

For all the personal preferances there is a solution, spend money. You do not have to, it is a CHOICE, just becuase it was not handed to you for free, well they never said they were going to. I've stated my opinnion about cash shops. The issues that are cropping up due to f2p is all personal, and they have a solution, just because you do not like the solution is your problem.

If you do not like the game, the people comming in these threads and attacking them obviously don't, have stated many times: I'm never going to play, I uninstalled in 20 min, EA will NEVER fix this, Why bother voicing your concerns? you have already stated your NEVER comming back, obviously never is a finite time frame becuase you all give suggestions about what needs to be fixed in order for you to come back. It doesn't seem to matter if it going to be fixed or not, becuase they haven't given you thier 5 year plan, you are not comming back.

Since you are all "not comming" back, let the people who understood what their f2p was offering have fun while it lasts.

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/02/13 12:29:55 PM#73

yea i still have scars from vicious fanboi bites, from when i got on swtor forums to complain about bugged

storyline bosses,,that was 2 days after prelaunch

gotta love the classic "dont like it? go back to wow",,apparently a lot of people did that

and how did that help swtor?

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/02/13 12:43:10 PM#74


Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Darklighter1 I'll never understand why posts like this exist.  Seriously, play the game...or don't.  Wishing the game fails......people lose their jobs?  You claim this game is what's wrong with the MMO industry.    Hate mongers like you people are what is wrong with the MMO industry.  Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
Hopefully the people in charge of this game are at some point held accountable for their bad decisions so that they don't infect other games with their undeserved prominence.

 

The more that people like you defend these shysters, the less likely they are to be held accountable.

 

Supporters like you are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.

 

/fist beat chest, then held in air




You've made the assumption that what gets said on forums actually matters. If you are saying anything on forums with the expectation that it's going to change anything, you are wasting whatever time you're putting into that effort. In the rare case that a developer listens to something said in the forums, it's because it mirrors other data that they have and it actually reflects what many players think. This is pretty rare.

EA aren't shysters. They delivered exactly what they said they would deliver. That doesn't mean it's a good deal, and it doesn't mean they'll make money off of what they've offered, but they aren't shysters.

Nobody in this thread is the problem with the industry, or the solution. They aren't even representative of the problem or the solution. The millions of people who buy MMOs and then stick with them or leave are the only ones who matter.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/02/13 1:15:12 PM#75
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Darklighter1 I'll never understand why posts like this exist.  Seriously, play the game...or don't.  Wishing the game fails......people lose their jobs?  You claim this game is what's wrong with the MMO industry.    Hate mongers like you people are what is wrong with the MMO industry.  Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
Hopefully the people in charge of this game are at some point held accountable for their bad decisions so that they don't infect other games with their undeserved prominence.

 

 

The more that people like you defend these shysters, the less likely they are to be held accountable.

 

Supporters like you are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.

 

/fist beat chest, then held in air

 




You've made the assumption that what gets said on forums actually matters. If you are saying anything on forums with the expectation that it's going to change anything, you are wasting whatever time you're putting into that effort. In the rare case that a developer listens to something said in the forums, it's because it mirrors other data that they have and it actually reflects what many players think. This is pretty rare.

EA aren't shysters. They delivered exactly what they said they would deliver. That doesn't mean it's a good deal, and it doesn't mean they'll make money off of what they've offered, but they aren't shysters.

Nobody in this thread is the problem with the industry, or the solution. They aren't even representative of the problem or the solution. The millions of people who buy MMOs and then stick with them or leave are the only ones who matter.

 

It mattered to SOE, most of what was said on the forums was listened to, and chnaged accordingly. They did not see the point of camps but they brought it back nonetheless.

You are probably right though with EA, but it does not help when you get people blindly defending the crap going on with the game, and it turns into arguments.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/02/13 1:42:19 PM#76
Originally posted by mrrshann618

The thing is that people are attacking the f2p model because it is to restrictive. However they are giving exactly what they said they were going to give. To log into a game, full knowing what you are going to get, full knowing how restrictive it is, and then bitching that it is to restrictive is cutting off the nose to spite the face.

 

No they have not given exactly what they said they were going to give, nothing is expected of it, and they have been tweaking it accordingly, so say because of peoples feedback.

Iniititially it had only 2 UI bars, now it has 4. It only had 2 char slots, and soon will have 6 and be unlockable but how can anyone atm play the game when they can not create more chars? They can't unless create more accounts but then those chars will not benefit from the "awesome" legacy system. So SWTORs F2P system is not exactly what it is said to be yet.

The extra char slots should have been worked on before putting in the stupid Life Day items

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/02/13 2:01:16 PM#77


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Darklighter1 I'll never understand why posts like this exist.  Seriously, play the game...or don't.  Wishing the game fails......people lose their jobs?  You claim this game is what's wrong with the MMO industry.    Hate mongers like you people are what is wrong with the MMO industry.  Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
Hopefully the people in charge of this game are at some point held accountable for their bad decisions so that they don't infect other games with their undeserved prominence.     The more that people like you defend these shysters, the less likely they are to be held accountable.   Supporters like you are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.   /fist beat chest, then held in air  
You've made the assumption that what gets said on forums actually matters. If you are saying anything on forums with the expectation that it's going to change anything, you are wasting whatever time you're putting into that effort. In the rare case that a developer listens to something said in the forums, it's because it mirrors other data that they have and it actually reflects what many players think. This is pretty rare. EA aren't shysters. They delivered exactly what they said they would deliver. That doesn't mean it's a good deal, and it doesn't mean they'll make money off of what they've offered, but they aren't shysters. Nobody in this thread is the problem with the industry, or the solution. They aren't even representative of the problem or the solution. The millions of people who buy MMOs and then stick with them or leave are the only ones who matter.  
It mattered to SOE, most of what was said on the forums was listened to, and chnaged accordingly. They did not see the point of camps but they brought it back nonetheless.

You are probably right though with EA, but it does not help when you get people blindly defending the crap going on with the game, and it turns into arguments.




Forumites get up in arms about everything. People blindly attack a game and people blindly defend a game. Pointing out that the forums brought up an issue is like pointing out that Twitter points to relevant data. If you try to highlight everything, then you're going to highlight something. The difference between a developer reading a forum and us is that they have a lot of additional information that nobody else has access to.

For instance, concerning the cash shop, there are a hundred or even a thousand people on the forums screaming about every detail of the cash shop, and how it's horrible, ruined gaming, or just an all around bad deal. You have another hundred or a thousand people saying the exact opposite. In the meantime, you have fifty thousand people buying stuff from the cash shop. The additional information that the developer has access to is the important information, not the forums. The forums are just a blip on the radar, telling the developer they might want to examine something further.

Now, none of this applies if the developer asks, "What do you guys think about X?" At that point, the forums become the most important bit of information. Because there's always an exception. :-)

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/02/13 2:13:01 PM#78
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Darklighter1 I'll never understand why posts like this exist.  Seriously, play the game...or don't.  Wishing the game fails......people lose their jobs?  You claim this game is what's wrong with the MMO industry.    Hate mongers like you people are what is wrong with the MMO industry.  Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
Hopefully the people in charge of this game are at some point held accountable for their bad decisions so that they don't infect other games with their undeserved prominence.     The more that people like you defend these shysters, the less likely they are to be held accountable.   Supporters like you are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.   /fist beat chest, then held in air  
You've made the assumption that what gets said on forums actually matters. If you are saying anything on forums with the expectation that it's going to change anything, you are wasting whatever time you're putting into that effort. In the rare case that a developer listens to something said in the forums, it's because it mirrors other data that they have and it actually reflects what many players think. This is pretty rare. EA aren't shysters. They delivered exactly what they said they would deliver. That doesn't mean it's a good deal, and it doesn't mean they'll make money off of what they've offered, but they aren't shysters. Nobody in this thread is the problem with the industry, or the solution. They aren't even representative of the problem or the solution. The millions of people who buy MMOs and then stick with them or leave are the only ones who matter.  
It mattered to SOE, most of what was said on the forums was listened to, and chnaged accordingly. They did not see the point of camps but they brought it back nonetheless.

 

You are probably right though with EA, but it does not help when you get people blindly defending the crap going on with the game, and it turns into arguments.




Forumites get up in arms about everything. People blindly attack a game and people blindly defend a game. Pointing out that the forums brought up an issue is like pointing out that Twitter points to relevant data. If you try to highlight everything, then you're going to highlight something. The difference between a developer reading a forum and us is that they have a lot of additional information that nobody else has access to.

For instance, concerning the cash shop, there are a hundred or even a thousand people on the forums screaming about every detail of the cash shop, and how it's horrible, ruined gaming, or just an all around bad deal. You have another hundred or a thousand people saying the exact opposite. In the meantime, you have fifty thousand people buying stuff from the cash shop. The additional information that the developer has access to is the important information, not the forums. The forums are just a blip on the radar, telling the developer they might want to examine something further.

Now, none of this applies if the developer asks, "What do you guys think about X?" At that point, the forums become the most important bit of information. Because there's always an exception. :-)

 

You post something, it may get done / noticed. You post nothing, then nothing gets done. It is never a waste of time. It is therapuetic to get it off your chest, but where it goes pear shaped is when people start bashing your wishes, and then it usually turns into a flame war /argumenat and then the devs do ignore it, and nothing happens, and then people are less likely to bother posting what they think are improvements to avoid confrontation, and that is why supporters are what is what is wrong.

The Meatlump Theme Park was put into SWG, from an ongoing joke on the forums. People wondered about the Meatlump King, and people messed around saying you can find him but was not in game at all. Then one day the SOE devs decided to do a Meatlump Theme park from it.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/02/13 3:06:11 PM#79


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Darklighter1 I'll never understand why posts like this exist.  Seriously, play the game...or don't.  Wishing the game fails......people lose their jobs?  You claim this game is what's wrong with the MMO industry.    Hate mongers like you people are what is wrong with the MMO industry.  Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
Hopefully the people in charge of this game are at some point held accountable for their bad decisions so that they don't infect other games with their undeserved prominence.     The more that people like you defend these shysters, the less likely they are to be held accountable.   Supporters like you are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.   /fist beat chest, then held in air  
You've made the assumption that what gets said on forums actually matters. If you are saying anything on forums with the expectation that it's going to change anything, you are wasting whatever time you're putting into that effort. In the rare case that a developer listens to something said in the forums, it's because it mirrors other data that they have and it actually reflects what many players think. This is pretty rare. EA aren't shysters. They delivered exactly what they said they would deliver. That doesn't mean it's a good deal, and it doesn't mean they'll make money off of what they've offered, but they aren't shysters. Nobody in this thread is the problem with the industry, or the solution. They aren't even representative of the problem or the solution. The millions of people who buy MMOs and then stick with them or leave are the only ones who matter.  
It mattered to SOE, most of what was said on the forums was listened to, and chnaged accordingly. They did not see the point of camps but they brought it back nonetheless.   You are probably right though with EA, but it does not help when you get people blindly defending the crap going on with the game, and it turns into arguments.
Forumites get up in arms about everything. People blindly attack a game and people blindly defend a game. Pointing out that the forums brought up an issue is like pointing out that Twitter points to relevant data. If you try to highlight everything, then you're going to highlight something. The difference between a developer reading a forum and us is that they have a lot of additional information that nobody else has access to. For instance, concerning the cash shop, there are a hundred or even a thousand people on the forums screaming about every detail of the cash shop, and how it's horrible, ruined gaming, or just an all around bad deal. You have another hundred or a thousand people saying the exact opposite. In the meantime, you have fifty thousand people buying stuff from the cash shop. The additional information that the developer has access to is the important information, not the forums. The forums are just a blip on the radar, telling the developer they might want to examine something further. Now, none of this applies if the developer asks, "What do you guys think about X?" At that point, the forums become the most important bit of information. Because there's always an exception. :-)  
You post something, it may get done / noticed. You post nothing, then nothing gets done. It is never a waste of time. It is therapuetic to get it off your chest, but where it goes pear shaped is when people start bashing your wishes, and then it usually turns into a flame war /argumenat and then the devs do ignore it, and nothing happens, and then people are less likely to bother posting what they think are improvements to avoid confrontation, and that is why supporters are what is what is wrong.

The Meatlump Theme Park was put into SWG, from an ongoing joke on the forums. People wondered about the Meatlump King, and people messed around saying you can find him but was not in game at all. Then one day the SOE devs decided to do a Meatlump Theme park from it.




I'm starting to think I understand why SWG has such a devoted following.

Anyway, as I said, when targeting issues, forums bring up everything. If it's possible to complain about or support something, it happens on the forums. As much as it feels like a contest though, it's not. Developers don't count the number of people who like and hate an issue in the forums and then act on it. They see what gets brought up, then look for information outside the forums to support that the issue exists. There's almost always some metric in a game that supports or refutes that an issue exists, or that it's a priority. They might see something in their metrics and then go to the forums to see if anyone has noticed the issue.

The example relevant to this thread would be the cash shop. A thousand people on the forums complain because the holiday items are only available in the cash shop. Meanwhile, fifty thousand or a hundred thousand people buy the holiday items off the cash shop, and those aren't people who post on the forums. The people who say the cash shop is fine on the forums really don't matter. The cash shop is fine, because it does what it was intended to do, which is earn money. Now, if very few people buy something off the cash shop, and very few people buy any holiday items, then the forum has highlighted an issue, and if the developer is sane, they'll do something about it. Again, the people who support the cash shop in the forums don't matter.

The scenario you're highlighting (major issues get drowned out by supporters) doesn't happen though. There aren't so many people who support a game no matter what that the people who bring up issues are drowned out and unheard. If that scenario does happen, the game doesn't have any issues, other than what they're going to do with all their money. Minor issues could get drowned out, but they could get drowned out by major issues rather than supporters. Besides, there's usually a major issue that would take priority.

The exceptions would be cases where the developer doesn't have metrics outside the forums to pull from. Things that don't currently exist in the game would fall under this category. Things that did exist in the game, and which would cost the developer very few resources to implement for good will from the players might fall into this category as well. I think forums are really useful, and in general they are good, but they aren't the battleground for the future of a game. SoE seems to have taken advantage of this, to good effect.

** edit **
The other exception would be things that aren't actually issues, but matters of preference. If a mechanic isn't actually causing any issues in terms of players staying or leaving, or spending money on the game, then the developer could check the forums to see if more players like a feature or dislike a feature. If more players like a feature (camps in SWG), then it makes sense that a developer would implement (or remove) said feature.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

1/02/13 5:22:06 PM#80
Originally posted by Nevulus
Originally posted by Myria
Originally posted by Karteli
There is still no love for actual "free" players in this F2P game, but those who spend on the cashshop to become "preferred" customers will soon get 6 character slots instead of 2
 

 

You mean Free To Play Isn't "Free" and companies focus on paying customers?

Who knew?

Almost as shocking as the notion that endless psychotic rants on irrelevant gaming websites might not constitute "horrible PR" in any meaningful sense.

Almost.

Epic reply.

"Generation Me": they want everything handed to them, no work, no price. It's not until they are the ones creating a product that they soon figure out servers & employees do not work solely on hopes & dreams.

And here come the 'entitlement' whiners. Hey guess what guys? People aren't asking for something new here, most MMOs offer a free event of some kind and perhaps a free event reward aside from the cash shop. For EA not to do so is perceived as greedy, and with good reason. It's like getting presents at Christmas but not buying any for anyone else. It's something devs are simply expected to do these days.

Are you telling me you wouldn't complain if they charged you $1 for every minute you were online or something absurd like that? I guarantee someone like you would still come out with the 'entitlement' spiel...

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