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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Massively shows some honesty

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235 posts found
  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2446

1/07/13 7:41:28 AM#221
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by jpnz

3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.

FYI, you can get to Fields of Ruin from Divinity's Reach, through an Asura Gate.

This goes along with the whole 'new player' thing where not all races go to DR.

I didn't know about this and area's next to one another doesn't flow at all.

Say I am a new player and I did Diessa Plateu, got to level 25.

Now what? The zone is a  deadend. Well, I'll back track to Plains of Ashford (1-15) and do the area next to it which is Blazaridge Steppes a '40-50' zone. LOLWUT?

Just really awful world design.

 

If you need orientation the story will guide you around and keep you moving.

After level 25 you are directed to LA - all the races are.

So either you are a new player and will follow the story and hearts or you can follow your own path.

This thing of wanting to play in a way that tries to after the weak points of the game and ignore all the strong points is masochism or acting in bad faith.

 

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1228

1/07/13 7:46:18 AM#222
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by jpnz

3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.

FYI, you can get to Fields of Ruin from Divinity's Reach, through an Asura Gate.

This goes along with the whole 'new player' thing where not all races go to DR.

I didn't know about this and area's next to one another doesn't flow at all.

Say I am a new player and I did Diessa Plateu, got to level 25.

Now what? The zone is a  deadend. Well, I'll back track to Plains of Ashford (1-15) and do the area next to it which is Blazaridge Steppes a '40-50' zone. LOLWUT?

Just really awful world design.

It's not a direct line or anything, but I never had a problem with it. The world map tells you the level ranges of all areas you've been next to and leveling is quite possible and fast in lower-level areas. So as a lvl 25 you could, for example, do stuff around Queensdale or LA or Brisban Wildlands or Wayfarer Foothills -> Snowden Drifts -> Lornar's Pass. Yes, the game doesn't tell you where you should go, but for me, that's a good thing.

Hmm, I just re-read what the article said and what we're talking about is slightly off-topic, because the article complains about nothing pushing you to explore high-level areas, but then contradicts itself by saying that "as you stick in lower-level areas, you get lower-level items... until you're utterly undergeared for areas that are actually at your level".

IMHO this article is a poor attempt at criticism, because it fails to mention the real complaints people have (Fractals, poor PR, culling, bugs taking way too long to fix, bad tooltips, inflation, poor boss design and many others) and focuses on secondary things and stuff that could be easily brushed aside as L2P issues. What weapons work with a venom build? Basically anything, but Spider Venom is a Condition Damage skill, so it works best with a Condition Damage weapon. Does the author really need the game to tell him that? Should it also give him a team build on a silver platter?

  remyburke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 2962

I liked MMOs better when gamers didn't play them, and just geeks did.

1/07/13 7:46:56 AM#223

Much of the game is very well made, but I have 2 major complaints which have made me stop playing after the first 2 months:

 

- Worst dungeons in any MMO in the history of the genre.

- The personal stories are horribly uninspired and very Saturday morning cartoon-ish.

Playing: ESO, Hearthstone and DayZ

Played: AC1, AC2, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  Volkon

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3804

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

1/07/13 8:16:44 AM#224
Originally posted by remyburke

Much of the game is very well made, but I have 2 major complaints which have made me stop playing after the first 2 months:

 

- Worst dungeons in any MMO in the history of the genre.

- The personal stories are horribly uninspired and very Saturday morning cartoon-ish.

 

Worst dungeons? Hmm... Fractals currently tops my list of one of the best I've experienced, so I guess your mileage will vary. I'm finding I like the non-scripted style much better than something like WoW-scripted dugeons, but that's my own feeling on it. Of course... I quit WoW pre-Cata, so don't know what they may have done to improve that design beyond "follow the script or fail". 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

1/07/13 10:45:01 AM#225

Some fair criticism although they range in relevance from very important to only worth mentioning on days when I'm feeling very, very bitchy.

The role confusion one is a key problem and I've used it as an example in other discussions about radical changes to fundamental MMORPG behavior and how it should not be introduced.

Even before release, the rejection of mandatory trinity gameplay was one of the more interesting features of GW2 to me, and the implementation of it hasn't been half-bad...provided you have the persistence and dedication to spend hours doing independent off-game research about builds for different situations.

The game is indeed sorely lacking in help to get you used to the new way of non-trinity dungeon crawling. This is why PUGs, especially in the days shortly after release, were and still are an exercize in repetitive trial and error with many lengthy runs in between. There is nothing in either the predominantly solo gameplay nor in the cooperative DEs or WvW that prepares you in any way for dungeons. Sloppy game play can get you through most of the game world, but not here.

At the very least they should spend some time with articles about viable builds for dungeon runs for each class with some explanation of the logic behind the builds.

I can overlook most of the other criticism about crafting, DEs, zone scalling etc., but the dungeon build identity crisis many players experience is a major flaw that really needs attention.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

1/07/13 10:54:36 AM#226
Originally posted by Iselin

Some fair criticism although they range in relevance from very important to only worth mentioning on days when I'm feeling very, very bitchy.

The role confusion one is a key problem and I've used it as an example in other discussions about radical changes to fundamental MMORPG behavior and how it should not be introduced.

Even before release, the rejection of mandatory trinity gameplay was one of the more interesting features of GW2 to me, and the implementation of it hasn't been half-bad...provided you have the persistence and dedication to spend hours doing independent off-game research about builds for different situations.

The game is indeed sorely lacking in help to get you used to the new way of non-trinity dungeon crawling. This is why PUGs, especially in the days shortly after release, were and still are an exercize in repetitive trial and error with many lengthy runs in between. There is nothing in either the predominantly solo gameplay nor in the cooperative DEs or WvW that prepares you in any way for dungeons. Sloppy game play can get you through most of the game world, but not here.

At the very least they should spend some time with articles about viable builds for dungeon runs for each class with some explanation of the logic behind the builds.

I can overlook most of the other criticism about crafting, DEs, zone scalling etc., but the dungeon build identity crisis many players experience is a major flaw that really needs attention.

I am just going to say this. People wanted a game where they weren't having their hands held from the beginning and this is what this game does - OOPS - ' I WANT MY HAND HELD!!!' WHat ddo you want - pick one and stick with it.

 

People seem not to be able to think outsdie the trinity. That is not the games fault - that is the players fault for ASS-U-ME-ing it plays the same way. I like the way it plays - that is me.

 

Could the game make it more social - yes. But, again, it is up to the players to make it social, not the game. Big ass dungeon crawls, like the 20 man runs in Rift, are not social. They are anything but social.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

1/07/13 11:14:52 AM#227
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Iselin

Some fair criticism although they range in relevance from very important to only worth mentioning on days when I'm feeling very, very bitchy.

The role confusion one is a key problem and I've used it as an example in other discussions about radical changes to fundamental MMORPG behavior and how it should not be introduced.

Even before release, the rejection of mandatory trinity gameplay was one of the more interesting features of GW2 to me, and the implementation of it hasn't been half-bad...provided you have the persistence and dedication to spend hours doing independent off-game research about builds for different situations.

The game is indeed sorely lacking in help to get you used to the new way of non-trinity dungeon crawling. This is why PUGs, especially in the days shortly after release, were and still are an exercize in repetitive trial and error with many lengthy runs in between. There is nothing in either the predominantly solo gameplay nor in the cooperative DEs or WvW that prepares you in any way for dungeons. Sloppy game play can get you through most of the game world, but not here.

At the very least they should spend some time with articles about viable builds for dungeon runs for each class with some explanation of the logic behind the builds.

I can overlook most of the other criticism about crafting, DEs, zone scalling etc., but the dungeon build identity crisis many players experience is a major flaw that really needs attention.

I am just going to say this. People wanted a game where they weren't having their hands held from the beginning and this is what this game does - OOPS - ' I WANT MY HAND HELD!!!' WHat ddo you want - pick one and stick with it.

 

People seem not to be able to think outsdie the trinity. That is not the games fault - that is the players fault for ASS-U-ME-ing it plays the same way. I like the way it plays - that is me.

 

Could the game make it more social - yes. But, again, it is up to the players to make it social, not the game. Big ass dungeon crawls, like the 20 man runs in Rift, are not social. They are anything but social.

It's not a "carebear" vs. "hardcore" thing: in general, whenever you want people to do something in a new way, it's up to you to explain it to them. There's no sense in blaming people for wanting to do what they have done before in the way they used to do it--any reasonably intelligent person would do exactly that.

Experiments with styles outside the trinity in mmorpg's are a great thing but they need two key components: 1) they have to be viable and 2) they have to be comprehensible. If you create a system that is lacking or you don't explain it well enough, it's your fault not theirs.

  caetftl

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/12
Posts: 279

1/07/13 1:51:40 PM#228

Basically all the skilled gaming veterans think gw2 was too easy and boring..

The newbs loved the game, and the super-newbs needed their hands held even more than the game already holds one's hand. 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14374

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

1/08/13 4:06:46 PM#229
Originally posted by remyburke

Much of the game is very well made, but I have 2 major complaints which have made me stop playing after the first 2 months:

 

- Worst dungeons in any MMO in the history of the genre.

- The personal stories are horribly uninspired and very Saturday morning cartoon-ish.

That sounds like a pure plus to me, but i'm corny in that way.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2099

1/08/13 5:52:38 PM#230

/thread

Really 23 pages of one lazy guy who can't be bother to learn the game before posting.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  User Deleted
1/09/13 4:24:44 AM#231
Originally posted by Scarfe

A failure to adapt doesn't make the change any more acceptable or correct (usually quite the opposite).  Dam dinosaurs failed to adapt to a meteor hitting the earth, I don't think said meteor was an improvement for them though. 

Why wsnt it good? Now we have humans which are much more advanced than dinosaurs, that WAS an improvement.

Guess you had some kind of point in there.

Adaptability and curiosity are most important human traits, when you throw them away...yah.

"We got pwned in this dungeon se we QUIT!" while there are crapzillion of people doing same dungeon with no probs just says something about those making that claim.

It would be very different thing if absolutely nobody can do that dungeon. But as it stands....yeah.

  Scarfe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 287

1/09/13 4:30:47 AM#232
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Scarfe

A failure to adapt doesn't make the change any more acceptable or correct (usually quite the opposite).  Dam dinosaurs failed to adapt to a meteor hitting the earth, I don't think said meteor was an improvement for them though. 

Why wsnt it good? Now we have humans which are much more advanced than dinosaurs, that WAS an improvement.

Guess you had some kind of point in there.

Edit: Didn't mean to post twice, mmorpg.com lag.  See below.

currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  Scarfe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 287

1/09/13 4:34:41 AM#233
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Scarfe

A failure to adapt doesn't make the change any more acceptable or correct (usually quite the opposite).  Dam dinosaurs failed to adapt to a meteor hitting the earth, I don't think said meteor was an improvement for them though. 

Why wsnt it good? Now we have humans which are much more advanced than dinosaurs, that WAS an improvement.

Guess you had some kind of point in there.

Adaptability and curiosity are most important human traits, when you throw them away...yah.

"We got pwned in this dungeon se we QUIT!" while there are crapzillion of people doing same dungeon with no probs just says something about those making that claim.

This was written and debated ages ago, have you really got nothing better to do than trawl old posts for an argument?

Each creature adapts to suit its environment, surely those that survive the longest without outstripping their resources are the mose adaptable and advanced in evolutionary terms?

But I really cannot be bothered resurrecting an off the cuff remark from bloody ages ago for further pointless debate. 

currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  tv2zulu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 72

1/09/13 6:08:07 AM#234

One just wishes the zealous haters here could show the same kind of objective thinking.

  User Deleted
1/09/13 7:36:09 AM#235
Originally posted by Scarfe

This was written and debated ages ago, have you really got nothing better to do than trawl old posts for an argument?

Each creature adapts to suit its environment, surely those that survive the longest without outstripping their resources are the mose adaptable and advanced in evolutionary terms?

But I really cannot be bothered resurrecting an off the cuff remark from bloody ages ago for further pointless debate. 

What does it matter when it was debated? rofl

Do you have nothing better to do but write worthless answers?

Originally posted by caetftl

Basically all the skilled gaming veterans think gw2 was too easy and boring..

The newbs loved the game, and the super-newbs needed their hands held even more than the game already holds one's hand.

It is easy, only problem is the game doesnt explain it to you as a 5 year old kid so theres plethora of people that claim "its impossible and it sucks".

its not games fault though.

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