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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » A tiny nugget more news on EQ: Next

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113 posts found
  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

12/21/12 4:31:02 PM#101
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by ice-vortex
Originally posted by CalmOceans

 

PLANETSIDE 2, Max graphics, 2012

 

Vanguard, 2007

 

 


I don't think you quite remember Vanguard. Repeat textures were everywhere. An example:


It looks miles better than PS2, the crispness and draw distance is insane in Vanguard compared to PS2,

You called PS2's engine the most advanced MMO engine in existence, and now you're failing to defend it against ancient games.

As I pointed out, I am not against EQNext's engine, but I know it's nowhere close to acceptible level to compete against current MMO.

The difference is that PS2 will usually have dozens if not hundreds of people in a small battle area and thanks to the lower texture quality, you can pretty much enjoy the battle with little to no choppiness at high settings.  The engine is quite capable of higher resolution textures, they merely chose to make cuts in order to optimize gameplay with crowded areas and it is absolutely necessary when you are required to accurately aim at both close moving targets and for long range sniper targeting.

  User Deleted
12/21/12 4:36:29 PM#102

Here's the thing.  The LF engine is designed and updated by SOE any changes to make can be made easily.  People say EQ2 engine sucks well SOE didnt make that engine.    You know why SWTOR sucked the most ?  The Engine lagged to shit whenever you got 50 + people around each other.     Now if EQN has any kind of pvp at all it will allow massive MMORPG style battles between hundreds of people with no real lag at all.    The engine is a real MMO engine the only issue is will SOE instance everything when they do not need to.      People really do not truly understand why instancing was started a decade ago in most games it wasn't for the players it was for the game engines.

 

Just a tip to everyone  Most MMOs from 10 years ago to now were built on single player game engines.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

12/21/12 4:48:06 PM#103
Originally posted by William12

Here's the thing.  The LF engine is designed and updated by SOE any changes to make can be made easily.  People say EQ2 engine sucks well SOE didnt make that engine.    You know why SWTOR sucked the most ?  The Engine lagged to shit whenever you got 50 + people around each other.     Now if EQN has any kind of pvp at all it will allow massive MMORPG style battles between hundreds of people with no real lag at all.    The engine is a real MMO engine the only issue is will SOE instance everything when they do not need to.      People really do not truly understand why instancing was started a decade ago in most games it wasn't for the players it was for the game engines.

 

Just a tip to everyone  Most MMOs from 10 years ago to now were built on single player game engines.

Hmm the first instancing I became aware of was in EQ1, one of the first handful of expansions, with instanced random dungeons to collect 15 gnoll paws, or kill 20 kobolds, etc.. "Lost Dungeons of Norrath" (2003), aye?.  That was in fact a decade ago, but EQ1 handled massive open dungeon crawls just fine prior to that ..  they didn't move to instancing because of engine problems that I know of ..  It came about to give a personalized experience that couldn't be griefed (so people could have meaningful statistics on the leaderboards).

 

Maybe there was a game before EQ1 that "started" instancing that you are referencing.. which one?

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/21/12 4:56:37 PM#104
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by William12

Here's the thing.  The LF engine is designed and updated by SOE any changes to make can be made easily.  People say EQ2 engine sucks well SOE didnt make that engine.    You know why SWTOR sucked the most ?  The Engine lagged to shit whenever you got 50 + people around each other.     Now if EQN has any kind of pvp at all it will allow massive MMORPG style battles between hundreds of people with no real lag at all.    The engine is a real MMO engine the only issue is will SOE instance everything when they do not need to.      People really do not truly understand why instancing was started a decade ago in most games it wasn't for the players it was for the game engines.

 

Just a tip to everyone  Most MMOs from 10 years ago to now were built on single player game engines.

Hmm the first instancing I became aware of was in EQ1, one of the first handful of expansions, with instanced random dungeons to collect 15 gnoll paws, or kill 20 kobolds, etc.. "Lost Dungeons of Norrath" (2003), aye?.  That was in fact a decade ago, but EQ1 handled massive open dungeon crawls just fine prior to that ..  they didn't move to instancing because of engine problems that I know of ..  It came about to give a personalized experience that couldn't be griefed (so people could have meaningful statistics on the leaderboards).

 

Maybe there was a game before EQ1 that "started" instancing that you are referencing.. which one?

 

Anarchy Online invented instancing

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1306

12/21/12 4:59:09 PM#105
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by William12

Here's the thing.  The LF engine is designed and updated by SOE any changes to make can be made easily.  People say EQ2 engine sucks well SOE didnt make that engine.    You know why SWTOR sucked the most ?  The Engine lagged to shit whenever you got 50 + people around each other.     Now if EQN has any kind of pvp at all it will allow massive MMORPG style battles between hundreds of people with no real lag at all.    The engine is a real MMO engine the only issue is will SOE instance everything when they do not need to.      People really do not truly understand why instancing was started a decade ago in most games it wasn't for the players it was for the game engines.

 

Just a tip to everyone  Most MMOs from 10 years ago to now were built on single player game engines.

Hmm the first instancing I became aware of was in EQ1, one of the first handful of expansions, with instanced random dungeons to collect 15 gnoll paws, or kill 20 kobolds, etc.. "Lost Dungeons of Norrath" (2003), aye?.  That was in fact a decade ago, but EQ1 handled massive open dungeon crawls just fine prior to that ..  they didn't move to instancing because of engine problems that I know of ..  It came about to give a personalized experience that couldn't be griefed (so people could have meaningful statistics on the leaderboards).

 

Maybe there was a game before EQ1 that "started" instancing that you are referencing.. which one?

 

While there is almost always something that breaks the general rule (such as your example), it is true that many developers began instancing their games due to hardware limitations. 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/21/12 5:08:54 PM#106

Just to popint out - calm oceans was highly political with that "max settings" planetside 2 screenshot

1 its not max settings

2 he / she has jetpacked up a cliff face to photograph some low rez textures especially.  The game uses lower rez textures in out of the way places where players dont normally go - try yourslef spawn as a light trooper and fly up some out of the way cliffs.

Just look at the user submitted screen shots on this site for a more acurate representation (not one from an ardent anti pvper)

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/599/view/screens/user/1#uScreens

  User Deleted
12/21/12 5:09:29 PM#107
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by William12

Here's the thing.  The LF engine is designed and updated by SOE any changes to make can be made easily.  People say EQ2 engine sucks well SOE didnt make that engine.    You know why SWTOR sucked the most ?  The Engine lagged to shit whenever you got 50 + people around each other.     Now if EQN has any kind of pvp at all it will allow massive MMORPG style battles between hundreds of people with no real lag at all.    The engine is a real MMO engine the only issue is will SOE instance everything when they do not need to.      People really do not truly understand why instancing was started a decade ago in most games it wasn't for the players it was for the game engines.

 

Just a tip to everyone  Most MMOs from 10 years ago to now were built on single player game engines.

Hmm the first instancing I became aware of was in EQ1, one of the first handful of expansions, with instanced random dungeons to collect 15 gnoll paws, or kill 20 kobolds, etc.. "Lost Dungeons of Norrath" (2003), aye?.  That was in fact a decade ago, but EQ1 handled massive open dungeon crawls just fine prior to that ..  they didn't move to instancing because of engine problems that I know of ..  It came about to give a personalized experience that couldn't be griefed (so people could have meaningful statistics on the leaderboards).

 

Maybe there was a game before EQ1 that "started" instancing that you are referencing.. which one?

 

EQ never instanced because of engine issues.   Now days games instance because they're using single player engines for an MMO and it just doesn't work so they instance because its cheaper to buy a license for that engine and build your game around it then to build your own engine.    To a dev team instancing is easy and cheap and its almost always an option now days.   Tasos from AV says its because of lazy developers no its because of cheap developers who even tot his day are using single player engines like the hero engine for an MMO.   These engines are not designed to have 50 + people standing around each other let alone fighting and casting spells and moving all at once. 

 

Do I trust SOE ?  #$#@ NO, but I'm willing to wait and see instead of just bashing the product and anyone who thinks LF engine is garbage needs to just stop playing video games this is a ground breaking MMO engine too bad no one but SOE will ever use it.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1306

12/21/12 8:19:28 PM#108
Originally posted by ShakyMo

Just to popint out - calm oceans was highly political with that "max settings" planetside 2 screenshot

1 its not max settings

2 he / she has jetpacked up a cliff face to photograph some low rez textures especially.  The game uses lower rez textures in out of the way places where players dont normally go - try yourslef spawn as a light trooper and fly up some out of the way cliffs.

Just look at the user submitted screen shots on this site for a more acurate representation (not one from an ardent anti pvper)

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/599/view/screens/user/1#uScreens

I didn't even pay attention to the screenshots, after seeing your post I looked and sure enough, I agree with you 100%. PS2 looks drastically better on my machine. I don't know why people do this kinda crap on the forums, but they have been for YEARS. Good eye man. I would say the screenshot is low settings at a decent res compared to what I see on my screen. Hell, even on my other PC, running at medium the game looks better than that screenshot.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13391

12/21/12 9:24:28 PM#109
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Jyiiga

Now explain all these...

Cosmic Rift

Pirates of the Burning Sea - Being seperated from SOE - Miserable population.

Cosmic Rift was really just part of Infantry, but nominally split off into a separate game for marketing reasons.  That's kind of like counting Guild Wars Factions and Guild Wars Nightfall as independent games.  And Infantry is still the best PVP game ever made, even if SOE didn't make it but only picked it up when GameFan went down.

PotBS wasn't bad. even if it wasn't that good, either.  The ship combat was pretty good, and the crafting was decent.  And it most certainly wasn't a WoW-clone, nor a clone of anything else.  We complain so much about clones here, but SOE is more willing to go off the beaten path and try something new than most of the big publishers.

Actually, Cosmic Rift was not ever meant to be a part of Infantry. It was developed by someone that I have personally spoken to in game (Around 1997 I think). JeffP. It was based off of Subspace, which I played WAY WAY too much when I was younger. Infantry was just an off shoot as well.

I never got into Infantry, it was kinda neat though. And playing Cosmic Rift after Subspace was crazy because it was so much easier. I didn't enjoy it too much at all.

Subspace can now be found for free as Continuum. Sadly, the servers are pretty lacking :( I still hop on to it now and then. I play on the Chaos server, its been quite a long time though and after reading this... I think I'll download it again lol.

You know who the main programmer behind Infantry was?  JeffP.

Infantry and Cosmic Rift used exactly the same game engine, but just different parameters to feed into the game engine.    But Infantry had a bunch of different zones that used that game engine with different parameters for different zones.  So did Cosmic Rift.  Which zones were officially part of which game was completely arbitrary, and likely they could have moved any zone from one game to the other without changing a thing.

And the zones in Infantry were hardly all the same, either.  There were a variety of Capture the Flag zones that were very similar to each other.  There were also Skirmish zones that were very similar to each other.  But Boom Ball X?  (For people who haven't played it, roughly a cross between dodge ball and foosball.)  Soccer?  GravBall?  Titan Rally was a racing zone, even.  Was a randomly selected Cosmic Rift zone really any more different from Eol than Boom Ball X was?

Yes... it was JeffP... that was my point... you obviously didn't get it.

Just because there were similarities between them doesn't mean they were ever designed to be one (or tied in). Because they weren't. They were 2 separate games that utlilized many of the same features (and engine). A lot like all the cookie cutter games out there now a days. Hell, some even use the same resources. So please, don't say something that simply isn't true. They were NEVER meant to be one game. EVER. Cosmic Rift was never meant to be part of Infantry.

Cosmic Rift was basically his second try/sequal to Subspace. Nothing on this forum has ever offended me (though it may appear otherwise lol), but this actually does. I was a rabid fan and know first hand that Cosmic Rift was never EVER meant to be part of infantry. I have more hours playing those games than I will ever care to admit, I was a big part of the community and participated in that game like no other. I knew all the updates, what the devs were up to, was an admin on the servers, and even knew of Cosmic Rift before it had any sort of annoucement. I even got to test it. So the information I am sharing with you is from a source, not made up, not an opinion, not an observer, someone who was involved.

The rest of your post is odd, as it seems you are trying to argue similarities to the game, rather than to back up your reasoning as to why the games were apparently meant to be one originally. As such, I won't even respond to that,

If you're going to argue that Cosmic Rift was a different game from Infantry, then you could just as well argue that the various zones within Infantry were all different games.  And that the various zones within Cosmic Rift were all different games.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1306

12/21/12 9:35:47 PM#110
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Jyiiga

Now explain all these...

Cosmic Rift

Pirates of the Burning Sea - Being seperated from SOE - Miserable population.

Cosmic Rift was really just part of Infantry, but nominally split off into a separate game for marketing reasons.  That's kind of like counting Guild Wars Factions and Guild Wars Nightfall as independent games.  And Infantry is still the best PVP game ever made, even if SOE didn't make it but only picked it up when GameFan went down.

PotBS wasn't bad. even if it wasn't that good, either.  The ship combat was pretty good, and the crafting was decent.  And it most certainly wasn't a WoW-clone, nor a clone of anything else.  We complain so much about clones here, but SOE is more willing to go off the beaten path and try something new than most of the big publishers.

Actually, Cosmic Rift was not ever meant to be a part of Infantry. It was developed by someone that I have personally spoken to in game (Around 1997 I think). JeffP. It was based off of Subspace, which I played WAY WAY too much when I was younger. Infantry was just an off shoot as well.

I never got into Infantry, it was kinda neat though. And playing Cosmic Rift after Subspace was crazy because it was so much easier. I didn't enjoy it too much at all.

Subspace can now be found for free as Continuum. Sadly, the servers are pretty lacking :( I still hop on to it now and then. I play on the Chaos server, its been quite a long time though and after reading this... I think I'll download it again lol.

You know who the main programmer behind Infantry was?  JeffP.

Infantry and Cosmic Rift used exactly the same game engine, but just different parameters to feed into the game engine.    But Infantry had a bunch of different zones that used that game engine with different parameters for different zones.  So did Cosmic Rift.  Which zones were officially part of which game was completely arbitrary, and likely they could have moved any zone from one game to the other without changing a thing.

And the zones in Infantry were hardly all the same, either.  There were a variety of Capture the Flag zones that were very similar to each other.  There were also Skirmish zones that were very similar to each other.  But Boom Ball X?  (For people who haven't played it, roughly a cross between dodge ball and foosball.)  Soccer?  GravBall?  Titan Rally was a racing zone, even.  Was a randomly selected Cosmic Rift zone really any more different from Eol than Boom Ball X was?

Yes... it was JeffP... that was my point... you obviously didn't get it.

Just because there were similarities between them doesn't mean they were ever designed to be one (or tied in). Because they weren't. They were 2 separate games that utlilized many of the same features (and engine). A lot like all the cookie cutter games out there now a days. Hell, some even use the same resources. So please, don't say something that simply isn't true. They were NEVER meant to be one game. EVER. Cosmic Rift was never meant to be part of Infantry.

Cosmic Rift was basically his second try/sequal to Subspace. Nothing on this forum has ever offended me (though it may appear otherwise lol), but this actually does. I was a rabid fan and know first hand that Cosmic Rift was never EVER meant to be part of infantry. I have more hours playing those games than I will ever care to admit, I was a big part of the community and participated in that game like no other. I knew all the updates, what the devs were up to, was an admin on the servers, and even knew of Cosmic Rift before it had any sort of annoucement. I even got to test it. So the information I am sharing with you is from a source, not made up, not an opinion, not an observer, someone who was involved.

The rest of your post is odd, as it seems you are trying to argue similarities to the game, rather than to back up your reasoning as to why the games were apparently meant to be one originally. As such, I won't even respond to that,

If you're going to argue that Cosmic Rift was a different game from Infantry, then you could just as well argue that the various zones within Infantry were all different games.  And that the various zones within Cosmic Rift were all different games.

So here you are, saying that the two games were meant to be one, but separated for marketing purposes... but now you are pretending that the argument was about the games being similar or not... they are similar, not the same game, but that isn't what we were talking about. I stated that Cosmic Rift was never meant to be, nor was, ever a part of Infantry. They are two separate entities created by the same person. Your strawman argument will not work on me. I refuse to stray off the original point I made.

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1822

12/21/12 11:20:12 PM#111
Originally posted by William12

People really do not truly understand why instancing was started a decade ago in most games it wasn't for the players it was for the game engines.

EQ introduced instancing in Lost Dungeons of Norrath because it fitted in the expansion, it was a dungeon crawler expansion.

In Planes of Power they introduced raid instancing, and it was done to combat PVE griefing that was going on prior to PoP.

It had nothing to do with the engine.

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1822

12/21/12 11:23:52 PM#112
Originally posted by Karteli

Hmm the first instancing I became aware of was in EQ1, one of the first handful of expansions, with instanced random dungeons to collect 15 gnoll paws, or kill 20 kobolds, etc.. "Lost Dungeons of Norrath" (2003), aye?.  That was in fact a decade ago, but EQ1 handled massive open dungeon crawls just fine prior to that ..  they didn't move to instancing because of engine problems that I know of ..  It came about to give a personalized experience that couldn't be griefed (so people could have meaningful statistics on the leaderboards).

 

Maybe there was a game before EQ1 that "started" instancing that you are referencing.. which one?

 

This, the instancing was done in response to gameplay, not the engine.

The first instancing was in LDON, which was a dungeon crawler like DON and and DOD, the only reason it was introduced is because it was appropriate to use it because the whole expansion was a dungeon crawler.

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1822

12/21/12 11:32:43 PM#113
Originally posted by William12

EQ never instanced because of engine issues. 

EQ has whole expansions that are instanced.

EQ had no issues instancing and it was never done for performance, in fact it has no effect on the performance of the game since SKLug explained how EQ does engine culling once, the performance of EQ in or out the instance doesn't determine performance in any way.

What EQ did have, was issues with the models which were memory hogs, and it didn't handle memory very well, which is why they kept having to reuse textures. It's also why they never reworked the Luclin models and instead remade the human models from scratch.

It's also why the stickmen were so popular when they let players use them, it vastly increased performance over the Luclin models.

The textures in EQ are loaded in expensive image files and many off them don't get removed when you change zones. EQ had memory leaks too for a long time before they were fixed.

EQ used a global texture file for things everyone can see, it never offloads it until you shut down the game, which is why we could never get new textures, because the global files were at such a premium.

 

Also, part of the reason they couldn't make changes is because each time you make minor adjustments to an old engine that was hard to get a handle on, you take the risk of creating unexpected bugs. All the content starting from PoP was made with the editor from PoP, the engine was usually left alone unless some code change was needed.

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