As far as I'm concerned, if you can hit max level completely solo then it is a solo game.  Those few raid dungeons at the end are just a poor way of keeping people playing beyond the games life span.

Out of all the level based games listed on this site how many require a group to hit max level?  I can only think of one, FFXI.

Solo players, you've gotten what you wanted and you're still complaining.  Give it a rest.

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by Mr_C

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by Mr_C
I find it weird that group fanatics are being offended that someone want an MMO with soloable content. Like they are forced to play that or getting sleepless nights. (If someone start having sleepless nights due to an MMO with solo content  then serious helped is highly recommended).

We (the group loving get of my lawn group) are deeply offended by it yes. Its taking what this Genre is all about the very foundation of it all and smashing it too pieces. I'm not saying we are having sleeples nights over it, But this is a De-evolution of the genre not a step forward as some claim. 

I am so glad you're not the one who defines the genre. So far everything is pointing to that you group fanatics arent worth listening to either, since games are moving more and more away from your extremistic requirements and thus have become better games to play.

if they have become better games to play then why are so many of these themeparks crashing and burning? with players often returning to WoW, because lets face it WoW will be the #1 thempark out there forever. there issnt gonna be any game better then wow by just copying it. nor by stating you do this and that difrently but in the end the core game is the same. and WoW does it better.

henceforth we need something really diffrent wich is returning to the roots of what an MMO was all about.

If MMO's would be your like you group fanatic's wet dream, they would be close the unplayable by the 'masses', which is a paradox since the 'M' means massively.

Accept that the 'M' does not means "forced grouping", but for being able to interact with others then move on. You might as well get a good night sleep too.

Originally posted by dave6660

As far as I'm concerned, if you can hit max level completely solo then it is a solo game.  Those few raid dungeons at the end are just a poor way of keeping people playing beyond the games life span.

Out of all the level based games listed on this site how many require a group to hit max level?  I can only think of one, FFXI.

Solo players, you've gotten what you wanted and you're still complaining.  Give it a rest.

Be concerned as much you like. No matter how many times you repeat your lies, they will never become true. Massively does NOT mean "forced grouping".

Originally posted by Mr_C

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by Mr_C

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by Mr_C
I find it weird that group fanatics are being offended that someone want an MMO with soloable content. Like they are forced to play that or getting sleepless nights. (If someone start having sleepless nights due to an MMO with solo content  then serious helped is highly recommended).

We (the group loving get of my lawn group) are deeply offended by it yes. Its taking what this Genre is all about the very foundation of it all and smashing it too pieces. I'm not saying we are having sleeples nights over it, But this is a De-evolution of the genre not a step forward as some claim. 

I am so glad you're not the one who defines the genre. So far everything is pointing to that you group fanatics arent worth listening to either, since games are moving more and more away from your extremistic requirements and thus have become better games to play.

if they have become better games to play then why are so many of these themeparks crashing and burning? with players often returning to WoW, because lets face it WoW will be the #1 thempark out there forever. there issnt gonna be any game better then wow by just copying it. nor by stating you do this and that difrently but in the end the core game is the same. and WoW does it better.

henceforth we need something really diffrent wich is returning to the roots of what an MMO was all about.

If MMO's would be your like you group fanatic's wet dream, they would be close the unplayable by the 'masses', which is a paradox since the 'M' means massively.

Accept that the 'M' does not means "forced grouping", but for being able to interact with others then move on. You might as well get a good night sleep too.

I have a wonderful idea for you and those like you.  If you want to play a game that is 100% soloable, try these brand new MMOs, they haven't been out very long and are all the rage.  You don't even have to have an epensive rig to play them.  Perhaps you may have hear of them, they are called CONSOLE GAMES.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Because MMORPG's were meant for COMMUNITY. There are 100% soloable RPG's though...on XBox360 and PS3...where they were meant for.

Soloing/grouping for content has nothing to do with whether there is the presence of community or not. You could solo everything in UO, and the game is one of the most praised titles of both the community and the sandbox crowds.

It's the same old solo vs group conversation, repeated ad nauseum because most people here honestly cannot wrap their heads around any non-combat gameplay outside of bizarre and convoluted crafting schemes.

This thread is becoming ridiculous.

Since 2008/9 WoW is a game with a focus on forced grouping.

90% of your time you will spend either in a lfg "lobby", in a dungeon or raid. Since those lfxyz groups are random, the players may as well be npcs, there is no difference (and im being generous).

It also has troubles with growth since that time.

THUS it is extremely amusing to see two groups who hold opposite beliefs BOTH use it as a argument FOR their case.

Flame on!

:)

A couple of points I like to keep in mind:

1. Not everyone plays the same way, never have, never will.  My ideal game is not everyone else's ideal game.  My nostalgic memories are not everyone else's nostalgic memories.  What I enjoy, others will hate and vice-versa.

2. There is not an objective right or wrong about any design.  There is what people will play and what people will not play.  That, in the end, is all that matters to a publisher, not any idealistic dogma of what a game should or shouldn't have.

3. If I find myself arguing with a large number of people that my vision is better than their vision, I should probably realize that both visions are going to have a market and I should be thinking over how well they can coexist in a single game rather than which has the right to exist.

Originally posted by Mr_C

Originally posted by dave6660

As far as I'm concerned, if you can hit max level completely solo then it is a solo game.  Those few raid dungeons at the end are just a poor way of keeping people playing beyond the games life span.

Out of all the level based games listed on this site how many require a group to hit max level?  I can only think of one, FFXI.

Solo players, you've gotten what you wanted and you're still complaining.  Give it a rest.

Be concerned as much you like. No matter how many times you repeat your lies, they will never become true. Massively does NOT mean "forced grouping".

Nvm.. i'm too tired to debate this topic anymore.

Originally posted by Paradigm68
Why aren't there any singleplayer games that  I can play 100% of the content with other people?

there are its called co-op :P

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by Paradigm68
Why aren't there any singleplayer games that  I can play 100% of the content with other people?

there are its called co-op :P

What singleplayer game can I play 100% of the content with other people?

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by Paradigm68
Why aren't there any singleplayer games that  I can play 100% of the content with other people?

there are its called co-op :P

What singleplayer game can I play 100% of the content with other people?

the entire halo series, the entire gears of war series. lets move on shal we.

Originally posted by Zorgo

oooo....I got it.

Same reason there isn't an mmo which has 100% group content and the same reason there isn't an mmo which has 100% raid content.

Probably the wisest response in the entire thread. Some people seem to miss out on the fact that a MMORPG that features soloing, group and raid content is actually the game that is being offered and not some made up definition of what MMORPG's could or should be. Play the entire game and you can enjoy the benefits of the entire game, play only a small segment of it and you have no one but yourself to blame if you run out of content.

That being said, logic dictates that the main focus of a multiplayer game should always be multiplayer gameplay. Yes I do know that multiplayer does not specifically mean "grouped up" but at the same time it is not even close to meaning you should be able to play by yourself 100% of the time 100% of the game either. Grouping however is multiplayer, soloing (playing by yourself) is not and never will be unless they re-define the meaning of the word solo. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what MMO's should promote.....

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by Paradigm68
Why aren't there any singleplayer games that  I can play 100% of the content with other people?

there are its called co-op :P

What singleplayer game can I play 100% of the content with other people?

the entire halo series, the entire gears of war series. lets move on shal we.

The singleplayer and multiplayer component of those games are seperate. There is singleplayer content not available in multiplayer mode.

Originally posted by monstermmo
uhh World of Warcraft. =p

No. Which was the reason I quit playing it; cause it forced me more and more to interact with morons. If WoW offered ways to achieve all gear with solo play, I would return instantly.

Originally posted by Mr_C

If WoW offered ways to achieve all gear with solo play, I would return instantly.

What prevents you from just ignoring that raid and dungeon gear exists?  What play requires raid gear other than raids? 

( I'm asking sincerely because it's a question I ask myself too in some games - if I want to just play within my prefered playstyle, why do I have trouble simply ignoring the fact that those other parts of the game, that I don't want to play, exist? )

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Mr_C

If WoW offered ways to achieve all gear with solo play, I would return instantly.

What prevents you from just ignoring that raid and dungeon gear exists?  What play requires raid gear other than raids? 

( I'm asking sincerely because it's a question I ask myself too in some games - if I want to just play within my prefered playstyle, why do I have trouble simply ignoring the fact that those other parts of the game, that I don't want to play, exist? )

It was so that you HAD to do PvE, forcing you into groups, to get the best weapons which I used for my BG & open world PvP. This was their "way" for many years. After that I turned my back to the game and never looked back. End of story.

Now would it not be a good idea for those who want to force grouping upon people who wants to enjoy and interact with others on their own premises, to release a game with full solo content? That means the group fanatics would not have to play with the unbearable "soloers" which gives them sleepless nights as well as something new and exclusve are given to the soloers which would peek their interest. A win-win situation.

Originally posted by Mr_C

It was so that you HAD to do PvE, forcing you into groups, to get the best weapons which I used for my BG & open world PvP.

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to say that you want the best rewards for your playstyle to be available from playing your playstyle?