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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The industry is expanding the definition of MMO

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175 posts found
  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2077

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

12/18/12 12:58:58 PM#141
Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

12/18/12 6:12:29 PM#142
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by madazz
Well, it December 17th, the industry still hasn't expanded what MMO means.... Can't we all just get a long until it actually happens?

Does it? Now LOL is considered a MMO by newzoo, and this site. Don't you think the definition is quite different from the days of UO?

This site actually calls it a MOBA. Had you bothered to read my earlier post you would see that for your one site I listed MANY MANY more that disagree with your ONE site.

So yeah, its the 18th and the industry still doesn't call LoL or other multiplayer games MMO's. Sweet :) Its awesome to have an industry back you up, and to have a ridiculous amount of proof, only to have some disagree with you and point out ONE site put it under an MMO category for stats purposes (and still not call LoL an MMO).

Stop trying to tell the players, developers, award givers, tournament organizers and reviewers we are all wrong.

And again, this very website, as stated in my earlier post, does not call LoL an MMO. SO hAhAHaaaaAhAhahaHaHa.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20582

 
OP  12/18/12 6:13:39 PM#143
Originally posted by Axxar
Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.

That is not necessarily a bad thing.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

12/18/12 6:18:02 PM#144
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Axxar
Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.

That is not necessarily a bad thing.

Yes it is. Because it is the butchering of the english language. MMO has a defined and clear meaning. People are trying to destroy that on some sort of weird holy crusade. Its VERY weird.

Also, if MMORPG starts calling Diablo 3, LoL or DOTA 2 an MMO. I will NEVER come here again.

  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

12/18/12 6:31:49 PM#145
Depending on how loose the definition, the results are rather extreme.

 

 

It's online with a single server and thousands connected at once.  It's an MMO.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

12/18/12 6:58:17 PM#146
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Axxar
Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.

That is not necessarily a bad thing.

Yes it is. Because it is the butchering of the english language. MMO has a defined and clear meaning. People are trying to destroy that on some sort of weird holy crusade. Its VERY weird.

Also, if MMORPG starts calling Diablo 3, LoL or DOTA 2 an MMO. I will NEVER come here again.

They already have forums for D3 and LoL here so... just sayin'!

But the words Massive Multiplayer Online has been compromised for a while now. There was that older thread about "Virtual Worlds" which was not too bad.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

12/18/12 7:04:59 PM#147
Originally posted by NaughtyP
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Axxar
Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.

That is not necessarily a bad thing.

Yes it is. Because it is the butchering of the english language. MMO has a defined and clear meaning. People are trying to destroy that on some sort of weird holy crusade. Its VERY weird.

Also, if MMORPG starts calling Diablo 3, LoL or DOTA 2 an MMO. I will NEVER come here again.

They already have forums for D3 and LoL here so... just sayin'!

But the words Massive Multiplayer Online has been compromised for a while now. There was that older thread about "Virtual Worlds" which was not too bad.

Go to mmorpg.com pages for those games. Does it say MMORPG at the top? NO. It says MOBA for LoL, and Action RPG for Diablo... just saying! Since you had troubles finding the pages obviously, here they are:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/436

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/644

Those games just happen to target the same type of audience. That is why MMORPG includes them. If they called them an MMO I am pretty sure they would have called them an MMO. But they didn't. They clearly, and unarguably, called them an MOBA and Action RPG. 

  emperorwings

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1415

12/18/12 7:10:23 PM#148
MMORPG is you are a character playing in an online world with other players. If you are online and playing a character with other people around you then it's a MMORPG. 

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3322

Poacher killer.

12/18/12 7:14:39 PM#149
Originally posted by NaughtyP

They already have forums for D3 and LoL here so... just sayin'!...

Right, but is this site officially classifying those games as MMOs? If I'm not mistaken, one of those games (maybe both) had to be voted on before mmorpg.com would even open those forums up. They are very popular video games that MMO players happen to have an interest in. That's it. If this site wants to start following the bizarre "lump 'em all in the mmo basket" mentality, I'll be joining Madazz on his way out.

Some MMA sites cover big Boxing events as MMA fans tend to have an interest in other combat sports. This absolutely does not magically transform Boxing into MMA.

This thread really is lacking in the logic department, and it's just plain odd.

"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/18/12 7:56:04 PM#150


Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by NaughtyP They already have forums for D3 and LoL here so... just sayin'!...
Right, but is this site officially classifying those games as MMOs? If I'm not mistaken, one of those games (maybe both) had to be voted on before mmorpg.com would even open those forums up. They are very popular video games that MMO players happen to have an interest in. That's it. If this site wants to start following the bizarre "lump 'em all in the mmo basket" mentality, I'll be joining Madazz on his way out.

Some MMA sites cover big Boxing events as MMA fans tend to have an interest in other combat sports. This absolutely does not magically transform Boxing into MMA.

This thread really is lacking in the logic department, and it's just plain odd.




It was stated pretty clearly that those games aren't on this site because they are MMOs, those games are on this site because they are of interest to MMO players.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/18/12 8:00:27 PM#151


Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Axxar Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.
That is not necessarily a bad thing.
Yes it is. Because it is the butchering of the english language. MMO has a defined and clear meaning. People are trying to destroy that on some sort of weird holy crusade. Its VERY weird.

Also, if MMORPG starts calling Diablo 3, LoL or DOTA 2 an MMO. I will NEVER come here again.




You're thinking of languages that aren't English. The English language does not have a governing body like other languages do so it doesn't have a clearly defined set of rules or defined words. Webster's doesn't add words to the English dictionary because they think the words are proper, they add words because people are using them. That's why English is the most commonly spoken non-native language. It can and does change based on how people are using it. The language can't be butchered. That's just how it works.

** edit **
Also, can I have your stuff?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

12/18/12 9:08:47 PM#152
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Axxar Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.
That is not necessarily a bad thing.
Yes it is. Because it is the butchering of the english language. MMO has a defined and clear meaning. People are trying to destroy that on some sort of weird holy crusade. Its VERY weird.

 

Also, if MMORPG starts calling Diablo 3, LoL or DOTA 2 an MMO. I will NEVER come here again.




You're thinking of languages that aren't English. The English language does not have a governing body like other languages do so it doesn't have a clearly defined set of rules or defined words. Webster's doesn't add words to the English dictionary because they think the words are proper, they add words because people are using them. That's why English is the most commonly spoken non-native language. It can and does change based on how people are using it. The language can't be butchered. That's just how it works.

** edit **
Also, can I have your stuff?

 

You don't say "Green Car" when you mean "Blue Car", as "Green" is the defined attribute of the "Car". Therefore how are you supposed to point out a Blue Car to someone if you are calling it Green? So why does "Massive" not mean anything when describing "Multiplayer". And don't try and tell me that "Multiplayer" isn't defined as people playing the game TOGETHER. So, as the rule works, when defining "Multiplayer" with "Massive" you have a game where it is no longer just "people playing a game together", it is now "a massive amount of people playing a game together". 

The english language does not have a governing body, true... but scholars have applied some rules to it. The argument here is about common sense. We all know the way it works, so why are people acting like they don't?

And why is that no one is trying to call LORD (Legend of the red dragon) an MMO? Its a BBS game, and qualifies as an MMO more than D3. As does Battlefield 3... You guys have no logic AT ALL. You just choose a random game and say its an MMO.

Answer me these questions:

How is D3/LoL an MMO but Battlefiend 3 not? 

How is D3/LoL an MMO but LORD not?

How is Team Fortress not an MMO? 

How is Freecell online not an MMO?

How is Orcs Must Die 2 not an MMO?

How is PayDay not an MMO?

If you guys know what an MMO is, tell me exactly how those aren't MMO's under your definition.

  madazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1312

12/18/12 9:19:20 PM#153

The weird version of MMO that a few users are trying to define:

Massive = Network

Multiplayer = Multiple people playing a game (doesn't have to be together, as long as they are networked)

Online = Online

 

 

The actual version of MMO that already exists and has for many years:

Massive = Large Quantity or Size

Multiplayer = Multiple people playing a game together

Online = Online

 

And anyone who played a video game or board game growing up knows that multiplayer means we played together at the same time. 

 

Holy CRAP. I just solved it... your games should be called NOG and ours should be called MMO!

You guys can go play your Networked Online Games (NOG) and we will stay back and enjoy our MMO's thank you very much :) 

This way, your broad term can cover EVERY game that is networked online! SWEET! Solved. Nogheads ;)

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

12/18/12 9:43:58 PM#154
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by NaughtyP

They already have forums for D3 and LoL here so... just sayin'!...

Right, but is this site officially classifying those games as MMOs? If I'm not mistaken, one of those games (maybe both) had to be voted on before mmorpg.com would even open those forums up. They are very popular video games that MMO players happen to have an interest in. That's it. If this site wants to start following the bizarre "lump 'em all in the mmo basket" mentality, I'll be joining Madazz on his way out.

Some MMA sites cover big Boxing events as MMA fans tend to have an interest in other combat sports. This absolutely does not magically transform Boxing into MMA.

This thread really is lacking in the logic department, and it's just plain odd.

I wasn't actually serious about them BEING MMOs lol. Just pointing out that they are on this site... anywho, you won't find me disagreeing with you guys on this one.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/18/12 10:06:49 PM#155


Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Axxar Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.
That is not necessarily a bad thing.
Yes it is. Because it is the butchering of the english language. MMO has a defined and clear meaning. People are trying to destroy that on some sort of weird holy crusade. Its VERY weird.   Also, if MMORPG starts calling Diablo 3, LoL or DOTA 2 an MMO. I will NEVER come here again.
You're thinking of languages that aren't English. The English language does not have a governing body like other languages do so it doesn't have a clearly defined set of rules or defined words. Webster's doesn't add words to the English dictionary because they think the words are proper, they add words because people are using them. That's why English is the most commonly spoken non-native language. It can and does change based on how people are using it. The language can't be butchered. That's just how it works. ** edit ** Also, can I have your stuff?  
You don't say "Green Car" when you mean "Blue Car", as "Green" is the defined attribute of the "Car". Therefore how are you supposed to point out a Blue Car to someone if you are calling it Green? So why does "Massive" not mean anything when describing "Multiplayer". And don't try and tell me that "Multiplayer" isn't defined as people playing the game TOGETHER. So, as the rule works, when defining "Multiplayer" with "Massive" you have a game where it is no longer just "people playing a game together", it is now "a massive amount of people playing a game together". 

The english language does not have a governing body, true... but scholars have applied some rules to it. The argument here is about common sense. We all know the way it works, so why are people acting like they don't?

And why is that no one is trying to call LORD (Legend of the red dragon) an MMO? Its a BBS game, and qualifies as an MMO more than D3. As does Battlefield 3... You guys have no logic AT ALL. You just choose a random game and say its an MMO.

Answer me these questions:

How is D3/LoL an MMO but Battlefiend 3 not? 

How is D3/LoL an MMO but LORD not?

How is Team Fortress not an MMO? 

How is Freecell online not an MMO?

How is Orcs Must Die 2 not an MMO?

How is PayDay not an MMO?

If you guys know what an MMO is, tell me exactly how those aren't MMO's under your definition.




You're mixing your concrete things up with your abstract ideas. A green car will always be a green car, no matter how you define it or what you call it. "MMO" on the other hand, is an abstract idea. It's nothing but a definition. If you change the definition, you change the thing. That is how human language works.

There aren't any rules for changing the definition of an abstract idea. It just happens over time. There's a branch of study dedicated to this called Etymology. If languages didn't change and the definitions didn't change, then Etymology wouldn't exist. Our culture probably wouldn't exist either, but that's a whole different discussion. It's just how languages work and English is more prone to change than other languages.

For what it's worth, neither definition depends on having a certain number of players. Games with 64 players online at the same time can be MMOs just as games with thousands of players online at the same time. This is true for both the legacy and new definitions of the term. It's all about shared virtual worlds and the way the game has persistence. It's the player interactions that are massive, not the number of players.

If you'll make the effort to look back through some posts, you'll see that I've provided the legacy and the new definitions, and then applied them both, showing how some games are not MMOs by the legacy definition, and how those same games are MMOs according to the new definition being used by the industry and by groups that study the industry. There is a logic to it, you're just not following it.

** edit **
Depending on where you look, and who was the last person who edited the entry, MMO requires "many" players or at least "hundreds" of players in a virtual world. Like many things, there is not a consensus on this.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  madazz

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Posts: 1312

12/18/12 11:19:38 PM#156
The words are crystal clear.
  nariusseldon

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Joined: 12/21/07
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OP  12/19/12 12:14:59 AM#157
Originally posted by madazz
The words are crystal clear.

Obviously not .. otherwise how would this thread have so many posts argument from all angles?

  Aelious

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Joined: 9/27/11
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World > Quest Progression

12/19/12 12:19:09 AM#158
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by madazz
The words are crystal clear.

Obviously not .. otherwise how would this thread have so many posts argument from all angles?

 

Because people like to argue and win arguments.  There is no better way to get 100 shades of gray then to come here and argue the simplist of subjects.  I, of course, am not above this.

 

This thread imparticular is so easily answered it hurts the head.  That doesn't mean other spinoffs haven't caused some great discussion even if it's just for the sake of TvT (Theory vs. Theory).

  corpusc

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CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

12/28/12 1:59:19 AM#159
Originally posted by Axxar
Interesting how lots of classic multiplayer games I played in the day have now retroactively become MMOs.

 

yup.

 

Quake 1 is now considered the first MMO, because many thousands of people played it online at the same time.  we'll just overlook the fact that they were all segregated by 16 player instances (servers), cuz that little distinction is now unimportant as narius says.

 

hahaha, the lack of perspective/context on the modern usage of the term is pretty hilarious

The End
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i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  corpusc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

12/28/12 2:04:42 AM#160
Originally posted by Cecropia
 

This thread really is lacking in the logic department, and it's just plain odd.

 

well according to narius, logic and reason should have nothing to do with our language.  8)

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

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