Originally posted by Aelious
I don't think the "industry" is specifically saying LoL, for example, is considered a "Massively Multiplayer Online" game. The term is used because it's recognizable.

But the "industry" is not excluding it from the MMO category. It is quite clear in the newzoo report. It is quite clear that massively covers LOL. It is quite clear that it is listed as one on this website.

While even Riot called LOL a MOBA, most are still grouping it as a MMO.

Originally posted by Magiknight
Any words that comes to mean anything mean nothing. That is what is happening to "Massively Multiplayer Online"

Well, it does mean that you have to have an online component, and you have to be able to play with others.

So you can exclude things like Mark of the Ninja, and the first dead space.

It is not meaningless if you can exlcude some game. It is just a matter of degree of how broad the term is.

Originally posted by Magiknight
Any words that comes to mean anything mean nothing. That is what is happening to "Massively Multiplayer Online"

To me they always meant a lot of people online in the same game.   That hasn't changed. 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Magiknight
Any words that comes to mean anything mean nothing. That is what is happening to "Massively Multiplayer Online"

To me they always meant a lot of people online in the same game.   That hasn't changed. 

+1

I'm not understanding what other magical definitions other people are coming up with, but it's pretty self explanatory.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Cuathon

Quizz, the real indicator of mmo status is massively multiplayer. How many people does your activity affect? LoL is not an MMO because the actions in one game do not change the experience of players within the whole game. EvE is an MMO because the actions of any given player permanently alter the experience of many other players.

That's an interesting effort, but it doesn't resolve the question.

What if League of Legends had 100 players per match instead of 10?  How about 1000 players per match?  10000?  Surely affecting 10000 people constitutes massively multiplayer.  If you're going to argue that it isn't because it doesn't affect everyone, then WoW isn't an MMO either, because what happens on one server doesn't affect people on other servers.

And again, we can't go strictly by the number of players.  We can agree that EVE is definitely an MMO.  But what if it were unpopular, and only 50 people played it?  Surely it would still be an MMO, wouldn't it?  Shouldn't being an MMO be something about game design rather than popularity?

If it's about affecting everyone in the entire game, then what if League of Legends were unpopular to the degree that there were never multiple matches running simultaneously.  Surely that wouldn't make it an MMO if it isn't now, would it?

If it's about permanence, then you'd have to argue that the periodic wipes of A Tale in the Desert make it not an MMO.  And that surely can't be right, as one player there can more strongly affect everyone else than in any other game I'm aware of.

I believe games like D3, LoL, and WoT definately do NOT belong here.  I've advocated for years here on the forums that they should stick to their name's sake.  If you took out all the hybrids, things would definately be slow around here.  Like it or not, new MMORPGs come in waves.  Over the past 15 years we've seen 2-3 year gaps between highly anticipated AAA games.   I believe these games are tapping into the MMORPG name to seek investor funding on the coat tails of games like EQ and WoW.  As long as people playing hybrids like D3 and WoT can remember they are not playing MMORPGs, I think we can all get along.

Originally posted by Rusque

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Magiknight
Any words that comes to mean anything mean nothing. That is what is happening to "Massively Multiplayer Online"

To me they always meant a lot of people online in the same game.   That hasn't changed. 

+1

I'm not understanding what other magical definitions other people are coming up with, but it's pretty self explanatory.

There are people in these forums arguing that COD, D3, and facebook are MMOs. Even calling LOL a MMO is bending the definition. LOL does not have a lot of people online in the same game. It has somewhere around 10 people online in the same game.

Adding instances to games bends the definition. The people that enter an instance are no longer in the same game as the rest of the population. The party that enters an instance are just off in their own little world with a small number of other people.

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by Rusque

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Magiknight
Any words that comes to mean anything mean nothing. That is what is happening to "Massively Multiplayer Online"

To me they always meant a lot of people online in the same game.   That hasn't changed. 

+1

I'm not understanding what other magical definitions other people are coming up with, but it's pretty self explanatory.

There are people in these forums arguing that COD, D3, and facebook are MMOs. Even calling LOL a MMO is bending the definition. LOL does not have a lot of people online in the same game. It has somewhere around 10 people online in the same game.

Adding instances to games bends the definition. The people that enter an instance are no longer in the same game as the rest of the population. The party that enters an instance are just off in their own little world with a small number of other people.

I think many facebook games are MMO"s.  No they may not be space/fantasy games but you can interact with hundreds/thousands of people in the game at the same time.  Thats an MMO. 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by Rusque

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Magiknight
Any words that comes to mean anything mean nothing. That is what is happening to "Massively Multiplayer Online"

To me they always meant a lot of people online in the same game.   That hasn't changed. 

+1

I'm not understanding what other magical definitions other people are coming up with, but it's pretty self explanatory.

There are people in these forums arguing that COD, D3, and facebook are MMOs. Even calling LOL a MMO is bending the definition. LOL does not have a lot of people online in the same game. It has somewhere around 10 people online in the same game.

Adding instances to games bends the definition. The people that enter an instance are no longer in the same game as the rest of the population. The party that enters an instance are just off in their own little world with a small number of other people.

I think many facebook games are MMO"s.  No they may not be space/fantasy games but you can interact with hundreds/thousands of people in the game at the same time.  Thats an MMO. 

Very true.  Truth be told, I think it's all about the advertising $$$$, and as such, if a game is going to get more $$$$ being called an MMORPG vs a Fancy Chat Room Small Party Game, then they are going where the money is.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 

I think many facebook games are MMO"s.  No they may not be space/fantasy games but you can interact with hundreds/thousands of people in the game at the same time.  Thats an MMO. 

I don't disagree with your logic, but Facebook games are not MMOs by common usage. That is why i think definition based on logic and reasoning are useless. It is all a matter of common usage.

BTW, all the facebook games are classified as "social games" by newzoo and other industrial sites. Don't ask me why. You are certainly right that facebook games are a) massive (heck probably more massive than WOW & LOL), b) multiplayer (duh!) and c) online.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 

I think many facebook games are MMO"s.  No they may not be space/fantasy games but you can interact with hundreds/thousands of people in the game at the same time.  Thats an MMO. 

I don't disagree with your logic, but Facebook games are not MMOs by common usage.

Moonlight Online - https://www.facebook.com/MoonlightUS

In what way is that any different from World of Warcraft?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 

I think many facebook games are MMO"s.  No they may not be space/fantasy games but you can interact with hundreds/thousands of people in the game at the same time.  Thats an MMO. 

I don't disagree with your logic, but Facebook games are not MMOs by common usage.

Moonlight Online - https://www.facebook.com/MoonlightUS

In what way is that any different from World of Warcraft?

 

Probably not. That is why common usage is defining the term, not logic or reasoning.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

 That is why i think definition based on logic and reasoning are useless.

lolol

your efforts at supporting and furthering the cause of making words useless...... are beyond compare.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 

I think many facebook games are MMO"s.  No they may not be space/fantasy games but you can interact with hundreds/thousands of people in the game at the same time.  Thats an MMO. 

I don't disagree with your logic, but Facebook games are not MMOs by common usage.

Moonlight Online - https://www.facebook.com/MoonlightUS

In what way is that any different from World of Warcraft?

Probably not. That is why common usage is defining the term, not logic or reasoning.

I don't understand your answer. Are you saying there is some measure by which that is not an MMO?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 

I think many facebook games are MMO"s.  No they may not be space/fantasy games but you can interact with hundreds/thousands of people in the game at the same time.  Thats an MMO. 

I don't disagree with your logic, but Facebook games are not MMOs by common usage.

Moonlight Online - https://www.facebook.com/MoonlightUS

In what way is that any different from World of Warcraft?

Probably not. That is why common usage is defining the term, not logic or reasoning.

I don't understand your answer. Are you saying there is some measure by which that is not an MMO?

I think games on facebook are classified differently as "social games" by most gaming press and marketing firms.

Originally posted by corpusc

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

 That is why i think definition based on logic and reasoning are useless.

 

lolol

 

your efforts at supporting and furthering the cause of making words useless...... are beyond compare.

I just about fell off my chair laughing when i read what nariusseldon said.

It's all so clear now. I finally understand the source of his irrationality and devotion to arbitrariness and being confused. You can't reason with someone who doesn't believe in reason.

Suffice it to say, this thread is about as pointless as it gets.

Originally posted by madazz
Well, it December 17th, the industry still hasn't expanded what MMO means.... Can't we all just get a long until it actually happens?

Does it? Now LOL is considered a MMO by newzoo, and this site. Don't you think the definition is quite different from the days of UO?

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Originally posted by nariusseldon

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Originally posted by madazz Well, it December 17th, the industry still hasn't expanded what MMO means.... Can't we all just get a long until it actually happens?

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Does it? Now LOL is considered a MMO by newzoo, and this site. Don't you think the definition is quite different from the days of UO?

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Originally posted by lizardbones

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The term has been expanded to include things that didn't exist when UO existed. The idea of an MMORTS or MMOFPS now exists as an offshoot of the MMO root. The telling thing is that there are people who see LoL as a form of MMO. It's all well and good for the industry to say it, but there are people who just see "LoL" and "MMO" in the same sentence and they just say, "OK" and move on with the rest of the sentence.

 

Ultimately, it is just a way to discuss a group of games. In industry discussions, don't you think that developers would notice variants of MMOs that are successful?

Players are flaky and discussions can go anywhere.

But i think industrial discussions like GDC will benefit a lot from the broadening of defition and discusses pros and cons of different gameplay style.