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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » To all those who play F2P with no intention of paying.

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106 posts found
  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3541

12/13/12 3:19:32 PM#41
Originally posted by Yamota

That is some backward logic! What has created all these Pay 2 Win games is because devs have realised that some people will pay, and some pay alot, to get an advantage over others.

What you are saying makes no sense. Is it irony?

          This is it exactly......Some gamers have the "I must win" mentality and will do whatever it takes to achieve that goal...... Some of us don't care whether we win or not (its a video game hello) and dont feel we need to pay money to the cash shop to enjoy the game.....If they give us a free option, then some of us are going to take advantage of it....IF we like the game enough then we will donate but we certainly don't have to which is nice.

  Fearum

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1055

12/13/12 3:22:06 PM#42
Why can't they open up 2 servers one being F2P with cash shop and restrictions and another that is PTP.
  Zyzra

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/07
Posts: 363

12/13/12 3:25:18 PM#43
Originally posted by Fearum
Why can't they open up 2 servers one being F2P with cash shop and restrictions and another that is PTP.

This indie company with a tiny game tried that once.

And by indie I mean Sony Online Entertainment, and by tiny game I mean Everquest 2.

It was so horrible they changed it.

Seperate but equal doesn't work with payment models and seperate servers either, it seems.

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

12/13/12 3:32:42 PM#44
Originally posted by XAPGames

People who play free are built into the business model.

 

They make the game world more lively by increasing population.  (an empty game is a dead game)

They often bring in other players, which reduces advertising costs and increases revenue because people they bring in might pay.

They provide fresh meat for PVP.  (in a game with all whales in top-shelf gear, the whales wouldn't have an advantage)

They might end up spending money.

 

Dev / publishers don't give out free access because they want to lose money on them.  They give out free access because they want to use the player as a way to make money.

Agreed. I don't know how there are so many people talking about online gaming who can't understand this concept.

The people running the game want free players. There is no company anywhere that celebrates when "freeloaders" leave their game.

  Enerzeal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/27/10
Posts: 332

There is no good or evil, only power - and those too weak to seek it.

 
OP  12/13/12 3:37:13 PM#45
Originally posted by Yamota

How can you be called a freeloader when you are playing a game that is called FREE TO PLAY?!

For **** sake they are using it to get more people to play and then those same people will be called freeloaders? This thread does not make sense on so many levels but I will stop here before my head explodes.

Ohh to live in your world, the wonderful world where development companies and publishers put out games for free for your soul enjoyment!

They are called free to play, with the INTENTION that you pay for some of the things on the item shop, so they can keep themselves in a job.

Otherwise you make them no money, to them you are the portion of their playerbase that they don't give a crap about.

aka, freeloaders.

  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1860

12/13/12 3:40:07 PM#46
Originally posted by Enerzeal
Originally posted by Yamota

How can you be called a freeloader when you are playing a game that is called FREE TO PLAY?!

For **** sake they are using it to get more people to play and then those same people will be called freeloaders? This thread does not make sense on so many levels but I will stop here before my head explodes.

Ohh to live in your world, the wonderful world where development companies and publishers put out games for free for your soul enjoyment!

They are called free to play, with the INTENTION that you pay for some of the things on the item shop, so they can keep themselves in a job.

Otherwise you make them no money, to them you are the portion of their playerbase that they don't give a crap about.

aka, freeloaders.

See the comments above. They care about them just as much tbh. In fact most poeple start out being a freeloader before commiting money. Doubt anyone will be dumb enough to actually pay first and then play to see if they like it. I usually end up paying for a subscription if they have that. Never buy from stores though. 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

12/13/12 3:40:19 PM#47
Originally posted by Zyzra

I don't mind if he plays forever without paying anything.  He seems to have a problem with people like himself though.

which is weird. Because if the owner of the game .. the dev .. does not mind there are free players .. who is he to disagree?

  Zyzra

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/07
Posts: 363

12/13/12 3:41:24 PM#48
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Zyzra

I don't mind if he plays forever without paying anything.  He seems to have a problem with people like himself though.

which is weird. Because if the owner of the game .. the dev .. does not mind there are free players .. who is he to disagree?

Right.  I mean he should be happy - more people to group up with and battle monsters together with, whether they spend money or not haha.

It's fun to play, either way!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

12/13/12 3:41:45 PM#49
Originally posted by Coman
 

See the comments above. They care about them just as much tbh. In fact most poeple start out being a freeloader before commiting money. Doubt anyone will be dumb enough to actually pay first and then play to see if they like it. I usually end up paying for a subscription if they have that. Never buy from stores though. 

In fact, there are two reasons. First is what you pointed out. Every paying customer started off as free. More free players, more chance to convert them.

Secondly, the free players are content for the paying customers.

Does anyone actually see a dev dissing free players and dont' want them? Of course not.

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2527

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

12/13/12 3:43:24 PM#50
Originally posted by Enerzeal
Originally posted by Yamota

How can you be called a freeloader when you are playing a game that is called FREE TO PLAY?!

For **** sake they are using it to get more people to play and then those same people will be called freeloaders? This thread does not make sense on so many levels but I will stop here before my head explodes.

They are called free to play, with the INTENTION that you pay for some of the things on the item shop, so they can keep themselves in a job.

And therein lies the scam (or insert any other deceitful term you care to here), which few seem to realize. There's a difference in playing some of the game for free and playing all of the game for free. But all they have to do is slap a "Free to Play" tag on anything they want and gamers go right along with the scam. Months down the road little Johnny spent $500 on a "free" game and didn't even know he got jobbed.

I'll hand it to the suits though, it's a great scam, works perfectly. STO is the real success story, lots of whales in that game.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4329

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

12/13/12 3:45:38 PM#51
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Enerzeal
Originally posted by Yamota

How can you be called a freeloader when you are playing a game that is called FREE TO PLAY?!

For **** sake they are using it to get more people to play and then those same people will be called freeloaders? This thread does not make sense on so many levels but I will stop here before my head explodes.

They are called free to play, with the INTENTION that you pay for some of the things on the item shop, so they can keep themselves in a job.

And therein lies the scam (or insert any other deceitful term you care to here), which few seem to realize. There's a difference in playing some of the game for free and playing all of the game for free. But all they have to do is slap a "Free to Play" tag on anything they want and gamers go right along with the scam. Months down the road little Johnny spent $500 on a "free" game and didn't even know he got jobbed.

I'll hand it to the suits though, it's a great scam, works perfectly. STO is the real success story, lots of whales in that game.

Disagree.  They are called free to play because you can play a good portion of the game for free, without a time limit, so you can play free as long as you and the game are alive and they HOPE at some time you will buy something. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

12/13/12 3:47:10 PM#52
Originally posted by Zekiah

I'll hand it to the suits though, it's a great scam, works perfectly. STO is the real success story, lots of whales in that game.

Also works perfectly for the shrewd players. Aren't you happy that whales are paying for your games?

I play STO for free .. great success story. If a whale wants to spend $20 on a star ship so i can fight klingons, i am more than happy to oblige.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

12/13/12 3:49:09 PM#53
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

Disagree.  They are called free to play because you can play a good portion of the game for free, without a time limit, so you can play free as long as you and the game are alive and they HOPE at some time you will buy something. 

They are just hung up on the label. "Free to play" is pretty accurate. It is free to play, not "free to play all", nor "free to play and get everything".

Plus, most games are pretty up front on what you can get in teh cash shop .. how can they not be? They want to sell the stuff. So it is a perfectly transparent business.

If you can't live without the stuff in cash shop, and you don't want to pay, don't play the game.

  User Deleted
12/13/12 3:55:00 PM#54
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Also works perfectly for the shrewd players. Aren't you happy that whales are paying for your games?

 

That's pretty much how I see it also.

 

One aspect I very much enjoy is I can download and evaluate for free with no financial obligation.  If I had to buy the box, I wouldn't have that unless there was a free trial.

 

  GhostRider00

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/06
Posts: 13

12/13/12 3:56:13 PM#55
Game Companys and the Govt included know the one rule. And that Rule is Their is a SUCKER BORN every minute.
  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4329

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

12/13/12 3:58:15 PM#56
Your right there is.  Which is why I promote people reading up on their games and making an informed decision.  B2P, F2P, P2P has no bearing on that - suckers and informed decision makers for all of them. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  aktalat

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 176

Wookiee. Jetpack. Lifeday moomoo. Flying into the SWG sunset on Lok.

12/13/12 4:01:14 PM#57
Originally posted by Enerzeal

I am rather shocked at how the market has developed in this day and age. Now developers create free to play games, they put in place gimics to get you to spend your money. Items you buy for a chance to get a nice item, increased exp rates, equipment that beats out what can be found in game, they lock away content, they seal up the game until you pay money.

People quote often that atleast 90% of people who play free to play games avoid spending any cash on them. This is to you 90% who complain about pay to win, who moan about how long it takes to achieve what someone purchasing from the shop can acheve.

You made this happen.

In a subscription game, 100% of the people pay $15 / £9 a month. Everything is open, nothing is pay to win.

In a play for free game, a better rate of income is achieved inside the 10% of people who play, than that of a subscription game. To compare, this is like 9 people playing WoW for free, and the tenth guy paying 10 times as much, plus some on the top because as we know, play for free is more profitable.

So when that tenth guy come along with his great gear, his fast leveling, and his lovely cosmetic items, do not complain that he paid to win, he paid to win because the developers offered those items, they offered those items - because they need to properly monetize their game.

I play Planetside 2, in the past month I have spent about £40 on it. Roughly on par with a purchased game box and a subscription. i won't be needing to spend this much in the future, I have what I need now and I am pleased with it. People complain that certification gains are to slow, they they can't farm up enough to buy guns with cert points. Now cert gain is fine if you buy the guns off the market with station cash and use your cert points to upgrade the guns and your selected classes.

You see what so many free to play people forget is that though the game might be free to log in, the developers never intended you to free ride your way through the game, they didn't intend for you to have your cake and eat it, to let the crazy 10% support your free loading.

heres a novel thought, spend a bit on the market every now and then and developers might not need to implement pay to win options, gear, exp increases and random chance loot bags.

 

Subscription seems to create a better playerbase and a proper environment where everyone is 'in it together'.

F2P just doesn't thrill me, whatever the profit rational one gives.

The more transient the game (like Planetside 2 where you just run in and shoot people for an hour, sorta like Quake), the more a F2P model makes sense and seems to work ok.

But the more community-oriented the game (like SWG or Ultima Online), the more a sub-based model seems to work well.

Just my 2 cents... :)

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4329

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

12/13/12 4:06:15 PM#58

I've noticed terrible communities in p2p games and good communities in f2p, and vice versa.  I don't think the payment model makes any difference.

The only difference I have noticed in communities is small communities are often friendlier, niche games have more like minde people. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

12/13/12 4:06:53 PM#59
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Your right there is.  Which is why I promote people reading up on their games and making an informed decision.  B2P, F2P, P2P has no bearing on that - suckers and informed decision makers for all of them. 

You can't eliminate all the suckers. The fact that spam still exist shows that.

OTOH, if a few suckers (or whales) are funding informed players' gaming experiences, so what? I don't see a problem, particularly because i am not a whale.

  cappytoi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/07/09
Posts: 43

12/13/12 4:20:46 PM#60

Someone asked if there is any other payment models that can be implemented to MMOs. Well I think sub games can implement a PPM (pay per minute) model so that casual players do not need to pay 15$/month just for playing several hours at weekend. They can also give free hours with expansions etc to cover the time required to level up. I think this model would make me turn back to me to several games like WoW for example. Though this model might make people very annoying especially in dungeons etc with peeps saying "come onnnn dude, I pay per hour and you are afking... go go go go go" Well he might be right but I do not even want to think about attitudes of those players at all.

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