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12/12/12 6:27:11 PM#81
This is one of the most ridiculous threads I have seen, and I have seen some crazies. It seems to be boiling down to people being mad that someone else is now getting the game for a much smaller price. You do know that if you wait a couple months for ANY game, the same thing happens, right? You pay for impatience. This shouldn't even be discussed until a DLC is released that costs more than the monthly FC point allowance lifetimers are getting.
Also, Kuppa, why is it EVERY time I click a TSW/Funcom thread, you're in it being negative? Why do you have such a hard on for this game/company? Take a breather. |
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12/12/12 6:27:34 PM#82
Funcom is a terrible company when it comes to handling your money. They will strip whatever they can from your wallet and will do whatever they can to ignore any attempts from you to get any sort of compensation.
Thankfully companies like Paypal exists which still believe in the rights of the consumer. They make it much less of a hassle to give a big F U to low life companies like Funcom. |
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12/12/12 6:31:06 PM#83
If *I* am stupid enough to sign said contract, please do me a favor. DO kill me :) Now, if you held a gun to my head and forced me to sign said contract, then I can see trouble ahead. Nobody forced LTS players to agree to the TOS & EULA. However, I *know* the American courts have taken up the banner of trying to protect people from their own stupidity, so this poster may get his wish. I hope to high heaven that they do not. I *know* the law is interpreted in many "inventive" ways never intended. In today's society of victims in every corner, nothing would surprise me :) - Al Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. |
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12/12/12 6:31:23 PM#84
Originally posted by DarkOmega Not sure where exactly this is coming from -- I'm sure there's a long story behind it. Have had zero problems with FC customer service or payments. |
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12/12/12 6:31:44 PM#85
Originally posted by DarkOmega
Actually lifers are still given the deal of a life time for it. only 2 or 3 are complaining... normally the same ones too. Heres the thing with what they are given Funcom will technically be paying YOU to play the game. So long as the game sticks around that long. Wanna know how to make a game stick around that long PLAY IT.
If i am correct if the game survives into 2014 on this model and lifertime will come ot with a PROFIT, from a Gains to Loss standbpoint. Because Funcom is such a lowlife company that they pay you to play their games... Those greedy bastards. Because i can. |
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12/12/12 6:31:51 PM#86
Seriously? Legal action? Over TSW going B2P? You want to lawyer up over the balance of $15? You do realize that even if you did manage to put together some form of class action lawsuit, the lawyer would get most of the settlement and the players would be left with maybe .30 to .50 on the dollar of their "lost" money at best. And no lawyer would take it because, let's face it, TSW doesn't have the subscriber base or the liquidity to make it worth even the most desperate ambulance-chasing lawyer's time. (Now if Blizz pulled this, yeah. Lawyers would be crawling out of the woodwork. But TSW ain't WoW.)
By going B2P, and offering what is, let's be honest, a pretty decent deal for both subscribers and lifetimers, Funcom keeps the game going. The option, of course, being a protracted death of the game, which would make that lifetime sub worthless in actuality rather than just perception.
Take the lifetimer's deal. They are going to throw $10 worth of cash shop points at you, every month, for the rest of your life at no cost to you. Plus the other fluff crap. The value of a lifetime sub just went up, not down, since before all you got for your sub essentially was access to the game. Now you get access, plus cash value every month. Who gives a shit if they expire? You're going to spend them fast anyway. And if you decide to take a break from the game, you'll come back to a tasty 7200 points sitting in your balance.
Now, the regular sub deal I'm not so sure of. $15 a month for $10 worth of cash shop points IS $10 more than you were getting before, so you are basically paying $5 for the extras: the XP booster, the monthly fluff item, and the cash shop discount. I'll be honest...I'm not sold on the fact those things are worth $5 a month, and I doubt I would really have use for the 1200 cas shop points anyway. There was rarely anything in there I wanted to begin with. For me, personally, it would not make sense to pay to sub anymore. They SHOULD have ponied up the full $15 worth of cash shop points for a sub.
But if I was a Lifetimer, I wouldn't be upset by the deal at all. To make up for the change they're going to give me the equivelent of $10 a month? (Well, $5 a month after I use points for the updates, but even so, $5 is better than a kick in the cojones.)
As for the whole "refunding" of sub fees. Never. Gonna. Happen. No point in moaning about it. If you read the fine print you would have seen that you were not paying for the game, you were paying for access to the game, a licesnce if you will, and that the license can be altered at any time without prior notification. No matter what time they scheduled the shift to B2P, most people would get caught in the middle of their sub period. There really isn't anything they can do about that. Every game that has made a paradigm shift like this has had people screaming "NOT FAIR!" and "WHERE'S MY MONEY?" And no game has EVER refunded one penny in this situation.
If it was good enough to pay for before, it's good enough to pay for now. It's not like the game got any different because of the switch. Just be happy it didn't go F2P. Then you would have had to deal with a mob of asshats dropping in just to grief. |
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12/12/12 6:34:19 PM#87
Originally posted by Synthetick EULA AND TOS never hold up in court and the customer always wins. Tos and Eula are there so that ididots that don;t know any better are scared to try and do anything. Go read and mmo lawsuit and u will see the person that lost an account or had some other gripe that is covered in the tos the courts have always hrown the tos and eula out. You can't take payment for something then take it away that is stealing. |
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12/12/12 6:35:21 PM#88
If you think that small amount of money you feel cheated on is worth suing over then more power to ya I say. For all the time, effort and money you will spend will amount to much more $ than they " owe " you.
Good luck
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12/12/12 6:37:11 PM#89
Originally posted by DarkOmega LOL, at this point everyone is saying the same thing about every mmo company.. You all are adults.. you should know by now the world does not run on good will.. they have to eat... let them make their money.  |
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12/12/12 6:39:44 PM#90
Originally posted by zephermarkus Your statement is either ignorant or an intentional misrepresentation. There is no precedent for these "facts". Cite the cases you are referring to please. Look at a EULA or TOS and use CONTROL-F and search for mediation. These contracts use the enforceable use of mediation in all cases that the EULA or TOS do not violate human rights or local law and federal law. |
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12/12/12 6:40:10 PM#91
ya know.....if by some act of the Gods someone WAS able to push a class action lawsuit through the courts....you would never see a dime from it. The only effect it would have would be that Funcom would immediately go into bankruptcy to protect their assets, and that would kill off TSW overnight. A successful lawsuit would only end the game the OP claims he wants to play.
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12/12/12 6:44:36 PM#92
IMO you were an idiot in the first place to buy a lifetime sub to one of todays themepark mmo's. Everyone should know by now they barely have a weeks worth of content. Now if it was FF11 back before abbysea, I could see a lifetime sub being worth it. Funny how ff11 is so time consuming, yet it still survives to this day as a sub based mmo, and still has a healthy playerbase, yet all the themepark mmo's being released crash and burn in a month or 2, due to nothing to do at lv cap. As its been shown only having pve raiding with no purpose or use for the raid gear is not cutting it anymore. They need to do what daoc pre-spellcraft did, pve raid for the best gear, then you can use it for pvp. Or better example eq2, the AA system it has lets you earn skill points you can spend on talents, some of them add totally new skills, others buff other skills, or give stat boosts, FF11 has this kind of system as well, with Mertis. Problem with themepark mmo's is: nothing to do outside of quest after quest, and non-existant endgame that has staying power. Also IMO if you bought into WoW's endgame you are also a fool. Because its about as totally dead end as you can get in a mmo, get raid gear.. then what? the gear has no use at all anymore, doesn't add new abilities or skills for your char, there is no other content to use it for so it just rots. The other main problem is raiding is just too easy, I loved wow back before the first expasion, where raiding was for the elite/hardcore, and not the easy mode casual smacktard garbage the game has now. Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either: A. Proven right (if something bad happens) or B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens) Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime! |
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12/12/12 6:45:14 PM#93
Caveat freaking Emptor, YOU bought an unproven product, YOU knew the history of funcom, YOU took a gamble and lost. What do you want funcom to do? continue to persue a failed monitization strategy just so you could "get your monies worth?" What, did you want them to do what TOR did with thier F2P model?
What are you gonna do, hire a lawyer to get $83 (factoring out the months you already played) back? With all the lawer fees and court fees and stuff, you'd be lucky to get back $15. |
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12/12/12 6:45:23 PM#94
Originally posted by Roxtarr IANAL but my understanding is that legal systems in most parts of the world see click-through argeements as being more like a handshake than a contract - that you can't hold people to anything more than common sense since they don't get to see the fine print until after the box has been opened. I can't imagine that arguing that the company has devalued what you paid for can go anywhere. You don't own anything in the game so it can't be devalued or lost. Time already played is already delivered, so there's no loss there. I think the best someone could do is argue that a bait and switch has occurred and that the game the company is providing now is not similar to the one that was promised, even beyond the normal "game experience may change" warning on the box and that there should be a refund of the remaining subscription time. But if you bought a lifetime subscription ... well, unless the company promised how long that lifetime would be, then caveat emptor. |
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12/12/12 6:50:33 PM#95
Originally posted by Kuppa Where do you get it from that Lifetimers got store points prior to this change? Players who were in closed beta and pre-purchased got a shed-load of "bonus points" (which had to be spent before the end of September), if you weren't in CB or bought the game after the start of July, you didn't get these. Lifetimers got a 10% discount on cosmetic clothing in the store (now increased to 20% discount on everything apart from DLC -- including account services like renames and dimension transfers). Everyone who completed 30 missions during one or another of various post-launch promotions got 1200 "bonus points" (I got 1200 bonus points when I bought the game as compensation for a billing error which in any case was rectified before I discovered it had happened.) On topic, as someone who bought Lifetime fully aware of the possibility that the game could crash and burn spectacularly, I hereby dissociate myself from the OP. |
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12/12/12 6:50:41 PM#96
Firstly: I'm glad to hear that contracts for digital services are null and void in the EU. Sounds like a great place.
Secondly: Internet lawyers.......ADVANCE!!!!! I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil |
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12/12/12 6:50:42 PM#97
I do understand this. As far as I know, nobody who chose to be a lifetime subscriber to TSW signed away anything that they legally had no rights to. As far as returning software, that is a whole 'nother can of worms :) Just poking around a bit, I found these games have their TOS on their webpages, ready to be read by those interested in doing so. It would not surprise me if there are some games that do not have these legal contracts posted, but I am fairly sure the vast majority of games do. For me, it really boils down to what are an end user's responsibilities? - Al Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. |
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12/12/12 6:54:04 PM#98
Originally posted by huskie77 Woo hoo! Go lawyer speak! |
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Elsabolts
 Advanced Member
Joined: 10/03/06
Life Liberty and the Pursuit of those that would threaten It |
12/12/12 6:54:13 PM#99
Does this mean that you will no longer be able to get a Mmorpg T-shirt ? " Sigh " Could Mmorpg get hauled into this by Lawyers ?
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12/12/12 6:55:44 PM#100
pffffttt......hahahaha. OP you are silly. I am entertained though. However, you have made up the amount of money you lost with your lifetime sub by recieveing all this sound legal advice; FOR FREE no less. In the end you win, OP.
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