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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Taking legal action against The Secret World

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382 posts found
  Hardcoded

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/09
Posts: 92

"Life is a joke, stand around and you'll miss the punchline."

1/05/13 9:56:46 PM#361
Hey remember  when the class action lawsuit was filed against SOE for completely changing StarWars Galaxies, or the one when Star Trek Online went F2P, or how about Lord of the Rings online, Champions Online, EQ2, or for that matter, any game that was shut down. Nope? Thats because you are only paying for the privledge to play the game, you own exactly nothing. EULA, TOS, what ever you want to call it states that on any online game you play.
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2674

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

1/05/13 10:25:29 PM#362
Originally posted by banzai014

As some of you may be aware, Funcom's The Secret World today shifted from a subscription only model to B2P (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/12/the-secret-world-officially-abolishes-subscriptions/). This was a completely unannounced and sudden change: the only warning given was a "prank" youtube video (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/10/the-secret-worlds-dev-video-blog-begins-end-of-days-chronicle/).

This leaves players with existing subscription time and lifetime subscribers in the lurch. In this new model, players that purchase the box price have full access to the game in its current state. Players can then subscribe for $15/month for 1200 Funcom points ($10 in real money) that expire after 6 months needed to buy future DLC (slated to be released in monthly installments costing $5-10),  a fluff vanity item of the month, an xp booster item and a 10% discount on the item shop. Existing subscribers are being switched to this plan for the remainder of their subscription time, without a refund option. Remember that these subscribers also had to buy the game box in the beginning.

This is not what subscribers paid for.  The deal they signed up for has been changed without their consent or prior knowledge. The terms of agreement have been pulled out from under them. Subscribers paid for access to updates ("DLC") but also access to the game itself. In the P2P model you simply could not log in if you were'nt subscribed. Now that you can get full access for free, the value of the subscription has been cheapened.

The services subscribers get with the B2P model are worthless. $15 per month for $10 worth in limited time points, whereas a B2P player can buy DLC each month for cheaper ($5) and have exactly the same access to the game. $15 (sub per month) > $10 (in virtual Funcom monies) > $5 per month for DLC you need to keep up with other players.

I feel that the subscription option is only there so that they don't have to refund people with existing subs and of course lifetimers. The sub has no value and is a ripoff. A sub gave players both access to new content and to the game itself. Since everyone has access to the game now for the box price, the sub has lost part of its value and so people with existing sub time should demand a refund. I would really like to know what a lawyer's legal opinion of this change would be.

I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. My demands are fair: I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. which in large part was paying for access to the game itself).

Are you serious? That's like getting mad at a ball club for selling tickets at the booth and you bought season passes.

Or getting mad because you bought Torchlight II for 20 bucks on NCSoft's website and now it's on Steam for 10 bucks.

Or getting mad because they charged full price to get into a party early and later on start allowing people in for 1/2 off.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4142

Trolls will be ignored

1/09/13 10:59:28 AM#363

This might even be more fun than the threats made against SOE for NGE.

/grab popcorn

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

1/09/13 11:58:17 AM#364
The EULA and TOS are both legally binding contracts you obviously did not read before agreeing to.
  cptndunsel

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 106

1/09/13 11:59:49 AM#365
good luck with that - anyone who bought the lifetime sub without considering the potential for yet another funcom game to crap itself (ala conan) and then go f2p got what they paid for - a fail game from a vendor known to make games that go f2p.
  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

1/14/13 10:22:21 AM#366

Wow I was completely unaware that this game doesn't have subs anymore, before it launched I was somewhat interested in this game but more I watched gameplay videos the more interest I lost. I may try this on a rainy day.


  MMOGamer71

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1511

1/14/13 10:24:22 AM#367
Originally posted by Teala
See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

^

This

  raistlinm

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/11
Posts: 686

1/14/13 10:27:10 AM#368
Without even reading any replys this isn't going to get anywhere most of these companies are very well protected form law suits by the very tos agreement you mention.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10376

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/14/13 10:28:06 AM#369


Originally posted by TeknoBug
Wow I was completely unaware that this game doesn't have subs anymore, before it launched I was somewhat interested in this game but more I watched gameplay videos the more interest I lost. I may try this on a rainy day.


Not having sub really fits the game play for this game. It removes the feeling that you need to progress at a certain rate to get your money's worth. For me, it made the difference between a game I would not play and one that I enjoy playing.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Torkaz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/09
Posts: 90

1/15/13 1:47:38 PM#370
Originally posted by banzai014

As some of you may be aware, Funcom's The Secret World today shifted from a subscription only model to B2P (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/12/the-secret-world-officially-abolishes-subscriptions/). This was a completely unannounced and sudden change: the only warning given was a "prank" youtube video (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/10/the-secret-worlds-dev-video-blog-begins-end-of-days-chronicle/).

This leaves players with existing subscription time and lifetime subscribers in the lurch. In this new model, players that purchase the box price have full access to the game in its current state. Players can then subscribe for $15/month for 1200 Funcom points ($10 in real money) that expire after 6 months needed to buy future DLC (slated to be released in monthly installments costing $5-10),  a fluff vanity item of the month, an xp booster item and a 10% discount on the item shop. Existing subscribers are being switched to this plan for the remainder of their subscription time, without a refund option. Remember that these subscribers also had to buy the game box in the beginning.

This is not what subscribers paid for.  The deal they signed up for has been changed without their consent or prior knowledge. The terms of agreement have been pulled out from under them. Subscribers paid for access to updates ("DLC") but also access to the game itself. In the P2P model you simply could not log in if you were'nt subscribed. Now that you can get full access for free, the value of the subscription has been cheapened.

The services subscribers get with the B2P model are worthless. $15 per month for $10 worth in limited time points, whereas a B2P player can buy DLC each month for cheaper ($5) and have exactly the same access to the game. $15 (sub per month) > $10 (in virtual Funcom monies) > $5 per month for DLC you need to keep up with other players.

I feel that the subscription option is only there so that they don't have to refund people with existing subs and of course lifetimers. The sub has no value and is a ripoff. A sub gave players both access to new content and to the game itself. Since everyone has access to the game now for the box price, the sub has lost part of its value and so people with existing sub time should demand a refund. I would really like to know what a lawyer's legal opinion of this change would be.

I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. My demands are fair: I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. which in large part was paying for access to the game itself).

Still wasting your time with this?  Your the kind of person that would sue McDonald's for pouring hot coffee on yourself...

  thinktank001

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1776

1/19/13 9:20:54 PM#371
Originally posted by Rocketeer

For a lawsuit to be realistic you need to have been wronged somehow, preferably in a financial way with fraudulent intent. Double charges on CC or charges for a banned account, taking away or ceasing to deliver something you paid for without refund, causing damage to your computer/privacy by negligence(virus, trojan etc). All of these can be a basis for a lawsuit. But giving someone else something for free that you had to pay for ... its simply not against the law. 

 

Maybe and maybe not.  

 

IMHO, I don't see TSW selling many subscriptions if they had announced the game could be using the P2W business model in the future.  Is that deceitful? I don't know.  On the other hand, TSW was released with a cash shop so I don't find it unreasonable that consumers should have known this was a possibility in the future.     

  User Deleted
1/19/13 9:27:03 PM#372

Here is how it would go down in court.

Judge: Why are you taking legal action against Funcom?

You: Because I paid to have a lifetime access to the game and now it is B2P.

Judge: Is the game still running?

You: Yes.

Judge: Can you still play it with no restrictions?

You: Yes.

Judge: Get the fuck out of my courtroom.

 

  Theocritus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3605

1/19/13 9:30:19 PM#373
Maybe next time some of you will listen when we are telling you when companies are going for a total cash grab......The amount they were asking for this game out of beta was insane yet some of you bit line and sinker.....Instead of suing the company maybe take a look in the mirror and use your head next time.
  Kells

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/08
Posts: 66

1/21/13 8:18:16 PM#374

Yeah, as a Grandmaster, I pretty blame myself for jumping in and buying the lifetime sub. I have played enough mmos to know that many games go f2p (or buy-once-to-play) if their sub sales are disappointing. I was just surprised that it happened so quickly in this case. That said, I am not unhappy with the compensation that I get from Funcom, which is $10 in Funcom points each month, enough to buy future downloadable content (DLC) and the 20% discount at the cash shop for vanity items. I also get a potion that grants me an hour of double XP for mob kills, with a 16 hour cooldown.

I am also happy that the cashshop at TSW is for fun stuff, and not "pay-to-win" items like several other cashshops I have seen in various mmos.

Yeah, I shouldn't have bought the Grandmaster deal, but I will live with it.

And, no, I wouldn't seriously consider taking legal action against Funcom over this. Not sure the OP really is either, he might just be blowing off steam.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5509

1/21/13 8:31:59 PM#375
Originally posted by Kells

Yeah, as a Grandmaster, I pretty blame myself for jumping in and buying the lifetime sub. I have played enough mmos to know that many games go f2p (or buy-once-to-play) if their sub sales are disappointing. I was just surprised that it happened so quickly in this case. That said, I am not unhappy with the compensation that I get from Funcom, which is $10 in Funcom points each month, enough to buy future downloadable content (DLC) and the 20% discount at the cash shop for vanity items. I also get a potion that grants me an hour of double XP for mob kills, with a 16 hour cooldown.

I am also happy that the cashshop at TSW is for fun stuff, and not "pay-to-win" items like several other cashshops I have seen in various mmos.

Yeah, I shouldn't have bought the Grandmaster deal, but I will live with it.

And, no, I wouldn't seriously consider taking legal action against Funcom over this. Not sure the OP really is either, he might just be blowing off steam.

I've considered buying the grandmaster.  It still doesn't seem like a bad deal if you're into the game and plan on playing for a couple years.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  rwyan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 420

1/21/13 8:43:38 PM#376

Lifer here who is completely and utterly happy with the change.

 

I've been able to buy more outfits from the shop that I normally wouldn't otherwise buy (as I would budget additional funcom points every other month or so).

 

There are more people to group with.

 

I still get the content and service I was promised.

 

Still don't understand all the drama and hysterics. 

  Kells

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/08
Posts: 66

1/22/13 10:20:20 PM#377

Another way to look at it is to crunch the numbers. I believe the GM Life Sub was $200. So, at $15 per month, you could recoup the cash value (disregard the bonus items for now) in 200/15 or approximately 13 months. So now, with $10 in Funcom points per month (which you can use to buy monthly downloadable content) PLUS the 20% discount, the GM is now worth $12 a month. This doesn't factor in the monthly fun clothing items GMs also get and the hour of daily double XP for mob kills.

Now I bought the GM relatively early, mid-August. So I have been exempt from a monthly sub for about 4 months. That would have an approximate play value of 4 x 15 or $60. Now, to recoup your original investment, it is (200-60)/12 or approximately, 12 months for me to gain back the value of my GM lifer.

We haven't been charged yet for the next month's update. I think the OP thought it was going to cost about $5 a month in Funcom points. Assuming that is correct and assuming that one is only interested in using Funcom points for the downloadable content and nothing else, then, from that perspective, it would take more than twice as long to recoup the cost of the Grandmaster Pack from my 12 month estimate, above. But, as I am relating my example to my situation and purchase preferences, and guessing that there might be expensive expansions down the pike worth even more Funcom points than the monthly updates, I hypothesis that sticking with the game throughout 2013 SHOULD make up for the cost of the Grandmaster Pack with play past that point being pure gravy.

Please post corrections if I made a serious calculation error here!

Thank you.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4142

Trolls will be ignored

1/24/13 4:38:41 PM#378
Originally posted by evilastro

Here is how it would go down in court.

Judge: Why are you taking legal action against Funcom?

You: Because I paid to have a lifetime access to the game and now it is B2P.

Judge: Is the game still running?

You: Yes.

Judge: Can you still play it with no restrictions?

You: Yes.

Judge: Get the fuck out of my courtroom.

 

Pretty much. Even Johnny Cochran couldn't win this one. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Crazy_Stick

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/12
Posts: 1072

1/24/13 4:44:22 PM#379
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by evilastro

Here is how it would go down in court.

Judge: Why are you taking legal action against Funcom?

You: Because I paid to have a lifetime access to the game and now it is B2P.

Judge: Is the game still running?

You: Yes.

Judge: Can you still play it with no restrictions?

You: Yes.

Judge: Get the fuck out of my courtroom.

 

Pretty much. Even Johnny Cochran couldn't win this one. 

 Man... Don't go disrespecting the Cochran.

  User Deleted
1/24/13 4:50:31 PM#380

I hope this story ends well.

 

News Flash!

"After years of vigorous litigation costing millions of dollars, banzai014 appears on the courthouse steps victoriously holding his $60 check issued to him from the 4-year lawsuit..."

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