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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Taking legal action against The Secret World

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382 posts found
  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2202

12/13/12 11:12:21 AM#181
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by FromHell

The last bastion beside EvE, TSW finally catered to the cheapskates. Thanks for nothing. Now the 30$ lolkids will try to do investigation quests and fill up the chat with ""lollzthisgamesucks""whatis goin on lolzzz"

Which begs the question why would you ever buy a lifetime sub for something you cant guarentee for the next month?  You cant blame someone for a RISK you openly took.

Thats like investing money in a stock that tanks and then asking for your money back because you didnt know it was going to happen.

Is it sad? yes.  Is it unfortunate? Perhaps.  Is it illegal?  No.

Caveat Emptor.

+1.

I admit I don't get the thread... Grandmasters didn't lost anything with this, it still is a great deal (on an another thread I said that maybe I'll buy one GM pack for myself in January)

And if the problem is that the game changed under us, well, as darkhalf357x wrote it's maybe sad and unfortunate, but not something to base a legal case on. I would've liked better as well, if Funcom chose to stay on the subscription route. On the other hand, maybe this b2p change will be a good thing on the long run.

Ps. the 30$ lolkids, on the beta and the trial weekends we already saw that they won't be a problem. They will leave :) Agreed, in the first 1-2 months maybe we will see a lot of "what's the code at the church"-like comments on general... Disturbing? A bit. But I don't think it's enough for a legal case either.

  Waldoe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/10
Posts: 625

12/13/12 11:18:20 AM#182
Sounds like the OP made a bad investment and now they are butthurt. That's on you.
  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

12/13/12 11:59:23 AM#183

If the OP wants to take legal action against Funcom, then I say 'Good luck!'

But all this 'Hey, look at me!  Look at me!  I'm suing Funcom!  I'M SUING FUNCOM!  Applaud me!' stuff is pointless.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/13/12 4:58:38 PM#184

Sometimes things in the digital world are difficult to grasp, but this isn't anything you can sue Funcom over.

Funcom sold you X, for Y and pledged to provide Z. Aslong as they provide Z you have no legal grounds to complain, atleast here in europe. EULAs do not even come into it. I mean obviously a company has the right to offer someone else a different contract than what you got. I can't even wrap my mind around the idea that you as a third person should have a right to intervene between a company and a new customer just because you bought from them once ...

If you think that you are somehow entitled to retroactive pricecuts ... how far back would that work? Can i buy a summerdress for my wife in june, and then demand the store pay me out the difference in the wintersale months later? If my mobile carrier releases a new package deal thats cheaper than what i got, can i demand he pay me out the difference even though im in the 24 month period?

I mean not even communist countries work like that ...

 

 

  Skooma2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/08
Posts: 686

12/13/12 5:03:11 PM#185
Hi.  I'm an actual honest-to-God lawyer.  To the original poster: You have no case.  The EULA spells out that they can change what they want when they want.   It seems to be your argument that your payment at the beginning of the game's existence entitles you to everything and later people should have to pay the same amount.  In regards to that opinion, I can either go to a theater and pay full price for a brand-new movie, or I can wait until it is available on On Demand for $2.99.  Those who went to the theater have no cause to complain that people watching the movie On Demand paid less.

Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/13/12 5:19:26 PM#186
Originally posted by Skooma2
Those who went to the theater have no cause to complain that people watching the movie On Demand paid less.

Well I'm no lawyer, but I don't think people would have a case even if the same theater they went to decides to lower the price on the movie the very next day because they couldn't get all tickets sold at the old price. I mean if companies weren't allowed to adjust their prices ... I just can't wrap my mind around that notion. But I think it would probably be bad for the economy or something.

  BigHatLogan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/09/06
Posts: 695

12/13/12 5:48:19 PM#187

I see these kind of "I'm gonna sue this MMORPG if they don't refund my 10 dollars" kind of posts for every MMORPG ever released.  How many have been successfully sued?  In the only specific case I can recall, the courts upheld Blizzard's EULA.  (that was pre WoW if I remember correctly)    Regardless of the above, how many lawyers do you think would want to get on board with this kind of case?  Unless you are willing to pay thousands of dollars to finance the suit they would have to take the case with the understanding that they would get 1/3 or more of total money recovered.  In order to actually litigate the case, such a lawyer needs to put up their own financial warchest in order to pay litigation costs and salaries of those involved.  This means that big cases like this are a huge risk.  Do you really think they are going to jump all over this kind of thing? 

 

Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!

I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  Slechtvalk

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 33

12/14/12 4:33:26 AM#188
Originally posted by I_Return
Originally posted by ChromeBallz

For the life of me i cannot find them. For some reason all my searches lead to US cases which are irrelevant here.

I only know of 2 cases for certain: One in the UK which ended 'undecided' (iirc the company settled with the claimant) and one in Germany where the claimant (customer) won the case.

That said - EU law and German law is there. Cases or not, judges can't exactly ignore it and make up their own laws.

Until a decisioned case or settledment is seen, you don't have much ice to stand on atm. :)

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120703/11345519566/eu-court-says-yes-you-can-resell-your-software-even-if-software-company-says-you-cant.shtml

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07/03/crikey-eu-rules-you-can-resell-downloaded-games/

 

Here is your case. And here the law itself.

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/BJNR001950896.html#BJNR001950896BJNG023401377

So if its not allowed by EULA to prohibit the sale of the software, you can now imagine that most EULA in this point are not valid.

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__308.html

"4. die Vereinbarung eines Rechts des Verwenders, die versprochene Leistung zu ändern oder von ihr abzuweichen, wenn nicht die Vereinbarung der Änderung oder Abweichung unter Berücksichtigung der Interessen des Verwenders für den anderen Vertragsteil zumutbar ist;"

 

is interesting for the TO. It means, EULA rules about changing the service are not valid, if they are not reasonable for the customer.

 

So there is no real white and black, what is reasonable changing the lifetime sub into the new system. i absolutely agree that the TO is a little bit too squeamish. but i am not a judge.

 

 

  IstrebiteI

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 272

12/14/12 4:52:26 AM#189

This is not how you take legal action.

To take legal action you need spare time, money and knowledge.

* Need money? Earn it or create a campaign to crowdsource it.

* Don't have spare time? Well, then don't bother.

* Don't have knowledge? Learn, study, ask for help/guidance or hire a professional.

Posting on forums about how some company is shit and how THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR isnt going to take you closer to sueing them. What will take you closer is actually talking to lawyers, friends or relatives or paying for consultations, actually reading stuff, asking correctly formulated questions (at least something like "guys I'm going to sue Fancom over this what can you advise me"). Then making your case and going to court.

Good luck if you actually do try to sue Funcom over this. I agree "no refunds" policy is ridiculous. If you paid for sub and there is no sub anymore, then you deserve to get your money back because the service you paid for is no longer provided. Whatever shit they word in their EULA, there are laws against that. There should be. Even in corrupted burocratic unfair Russia we have laws against such brainfuck. If you confused your customer deliberatly, like, selling him a sub, advertising it as a sub, but instead in small letters selling him thin air or some bullshit, then even if you signed a contract that said you're paying them for some "thin air" or basically nothing, if they advertised a sub, and you can prove it, then you win and can void the contract (and thus get a refund). Basically, intentionally misleading or confusing from one side is considered a valid legal reason to void the contract.

However, if you bought a "lifetime" sub, then I guess you cannot really ask for refund because you clearly paid for something different than a 'lifetime" sub. Because its common sense that no game lives forever, no service lives forever, and thus when you buy a "lifetime service" you sign in for multiple limits of liability and so on and so forth. And there is no real way to refund lifetime sub since you cannot say which part of it you consumed yet (unlike sub, where if you paid for 10 months and in 3 months they switched to B2P, you can say you consumed 3 months but demand 7 months refunded).

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

12/14/12 7:12:45 AM#190

Seems simple to me, Funcom offer a refund for any customer that is dissatisfied with the new arrangement. This all boils down to customer satisfaction, legalities aside.  The fact the customer is 'stitched up' with legal bs so that they  sign away their rights is sort of immaterial.   Call for Funcom to do the right thing.  Refund any customer that is unhappy with the new arrangement. Surely even the people that are happy with the new arrangement should be able to support that course of action.

  platonicx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/12
Posts: 22

12/14/12 7:25:34 AM#191

So ... lets sum up.

Before the shift a subsciption gave you:

1. Access to full game and updates

2. ..... thats it

After the shift you get:

1. Access to full game and updates

2. Spare points to spare on vanity items

3. Free xp potions that gives you a bonus compared to the xp gain you had before

4. Time Accelerator (Clickable item which increases experience gain for defeating monsters by 100% for 1 hour, 16 hour cool-down) Once again for one hour you can get double of exp you were getting before the bussiness model shift

 

To me you gained a lot of stuff and lost nothing. However the reason you started this thread and the reason people like you find changes such as this somehow threatening is you are a bunch of internet rednecks.

 

You simply cant bear the fact OTHER PEOPLE now have free access to something you paid for. For some reason this is such a big factor to you you feel the need to go on the internets and bitch about it.

I advice people like you to either stop for a minute and thinkabout their character traits or get prefisional help.

Evaluating your own life based on what other people have is simply not healthy.

  UngoHumungo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 522

I'm here......wheres the fish?

12/14/12 7:29:18 AM#192
if you haven't asked for a refund for the game after the change, which I bet if asked correctly they would do.  Since the product has changed you can request a refund based on that.....

There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1067

12/14/12 7:32:47 AM#193
Originally posted by platonicx

So ... lets sum up.

Before the shift a subsciption gave you:

1. Access to full game and updates

2. ..... thats it

After the shift you get:

1. Access to full game and updates

2. Spare points to spare on vanity items

3. Free xp potions that gives you a bonus compared to the xp gain you had before

4. Time Accelerator (Clickable item which increases experience gain for defeating monsters by 100% for 1 hour, 16 hour cool-down) Once again for one hour you can get double of exp you were getting before the bussiness model shift

Don't forget item of the month.  Both subs and lifetimers are better off after the change.  They are getting more for their money, not less.  

  Rypht

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 37

12/14/12 7:37:25 AM#194
Originally posted by fallenlords

Seems simple to me, Funcom offer a refund for any customer that is dissatisfied with the new arrangement. This all boils down to customer satisfaction, legalities aside.  The fact the customer is 'stitched up' with legal bs so that they  sign away their rights is sort of immaterial.   Call for Funcom to do the right thing.  Refund any customer that is unhappy with the new arrangement. Surely even the people that are happy with the new arrangement should be able to support that course of action.

Funcom is doing the right thing, for the long term survival of the game.  If this allows them to keep the game going, keep adding new content, and attract new players to the game, it benefits everyone interested in the game, including subscribers and lifetimers.

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1067

12/14/12 7:39:50 AM#195
Originally posted by platonicx

You simply cant bear the fact OTHER PEOPLE now have free access to something you paid for. For some reason this is such a big factor to you you feel the need to go on the internets and bitch about it.

I advice people like you to either stop for a minute and thinkabout their character traits or get prefisional help.

Evaluating your own life based on what other people have is simply not healthy.

I'm not usually one to quote the Bible, but folks might want to take a look at this one, as I think it's pretty applicable:  

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/parables/the-parable-of-the-workers-in-the-field/

  MisterTeaBH

Novice Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 24

12/14/12 7:42:34 AM#196

Hahaha lifetime subscription for a funcom mmo, glorious

 

  Whitebeards

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 823

12/14/12 7:48:41 AM#197

If these things really worked i would be roling in money form all the lawsuits i filed against every single MMO company out there for making changed to payment models.

Go ahead do it, i have been reading these posts for years now. 

  Derros

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1026

12/14/12 8:02:14 AM#198

Here's the thing, what did you get for the grandmaster pack?  Unlimited access to the game and some bonus items.  You still have all that, what you paid for hasnt changed, other people are now, just getting some of what you paid for, for free (or heavily discounted if you count the box price).  Its like buying a new game at a store, 7 months later, you find out the store is doing a massive sale or heavily discounting the game for like $10, you dont get to go back and ask for the difference.

 

Although i'm sure im going to get some person coming here saying they did just that, if you, your results are not typical.

  bishbosh2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 66

12/14/12 8:03:53 AM#199
this is ridiculous. this is like sueing a computer parts supplier because they give pentium 4's away for free but you paid $300 for it 10 years ago. you cant sue a company for changing the price of their product???
  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/14/12 8:19:17 AM#200


Originally posted by platonicx

I advice people like you to either stop for a minute and thinkabout their character traits or get prefisional help.




You left out the 'h'. It's "prefishional" help. Prefishional help is when you don't eat enough fish, and lack the omega 3 fatty acids and b vitamins and it makes you grumpy. I would have thought the word would be "fishional", but the pre is because the help is arriving prior to the arrival of the fish.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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