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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Finally .. no more sub games for me

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Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

OP  12/14/12 4:58:06 PM#201
Originally posted by Aviggin

Almost every F2P game I've played has had restricted items that made me purchase something to unlock them, constantly had loading screens telling me about the cash shop stuff, have an icon or multiple icons on the screen leading to the cash shop, constantly having pop ups telling me that I can do this and that if I drop the money.

I'm gonna flip this and ask what games you're actually playing that DOESN'T do this, and maybe I'll give it a go.

PS2 .. never have anything pop up when i am playing.


Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

OP  12/14/12 5:10:24 PM#202
Originally posted by winter

  I imagine the Op has a job and probably has no trouble paying 15 dollars on a nights entertainment to see a movie, yet balks at paying said 15 dollars for a months entertainment as he can simply get it free and have others pay the bill.

You are right. I have been paying for WOW for multiple year. $15 is .. like you said .. less than a movie with my wife. Note that it is not a choice of paying or not paying only, it is also about the game. I tried and like PS2 .. now i can't pay a sub there, even if i want right?

And you are also right that if some whales want to pay for it for me, hey, who am i to say no.

  Perhaps this is a huge jump in reeasoning but how really is this different then say having a healthy 21 y/o decide he doesn't want to work and wants to live on welfare the rest of his life? Sure there are rich "whales" that will pay the taxes for him to do so but its still technically a parasitic relationship.

And technically you are right. Games are just entertainment. I feel no problem free riding. I pay my taxes, and i think it is too high. If the Fed lower my tax rate, you are damn right that i will welcome that with open arms. There are always somewhere else i can spend my money.

   Do games really benefit in any way from gamers that have decided to play for a few months to have the most fun they can  other players be damned and never pay anything to the games company/developers as we are all entiltled to free stuff since theres always someone how makes more then us etc.? I'm probably rocking the boat, might even get banned for what I wrote, and hell I'm neither rich nore a republican. I do however take responsibilty for myself and my actions. I pay for the entertainment I use because in the end I know nothing in this world is for free.

May be .. may be not. The devs seems to want free players for two reasons. 1) We are content for the whales. 2) They are hoping they can lure us into paying.

None of this ... of course .. is predicated on the assumption gamers want to "benefit the games". Personally i don't care less. All i am doing .. is playing games to have fun. Not to "benefit" the games. not to "benefit" the "community", and certainly not to benefit the devs.

I highly doubt the devs are under any illusions that it is not the case.

"I know nothing in this world is for free" ... PS2, DDO, and a host of other F2P games just prove you wrong. I just played some PS2 last night. I paid nothing (well .. i did pay electricity, and internet access, but certainly NOTHING to SOE).





Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

12/14/12 5:31:53 PM#203
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Good luck on spending more on F2P to enjoy the game.


I'm of this belief as well, for the most part.  I know I spent almost as much as a sub on GW2 and it really only had fluff stuff, extra bag and bank space, and gold to buy with gems.  Still....I managed to spend almost a sub amount on it each month.  Guess I don't have very good self control, maybe.  If there's fun stuff to buy in a game.....I'm probably going to buy it. lol

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club


Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/12
Posts: 10

12/14/12 5:35:06 PM#204

I have paid more on Planetside 2 than if I had paid 6 months worth of subs, although I know some people are able to just not spend money.


imo dont limit yourself to games based on their payment method, you'll miss out on great games, like Darkfall UW


Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

OP  12/14/12 5:37:19 PM#205
Originally posted by YeOldeTimeCapsule

I have paid more on Planetside 2 than if I had paid 6 months worth of subs, although I know some people are able to just not spend money.

 That would be me. Never spent a dime on PS2 and it is still fun. BTW, thank YOU for subsidizing my fun.

imo dont limit yourself to games based on their payment method, you'll miss out on great games, like Darkfall UW

Exactly. I doubt i will like DF UW .. but the point is very well taken. Particularly when it is free, there is little reason not to try out.



Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2937

12/15/12 1:11:34 PM#206
Originally posted by YeOldeTimeCapsule

I have paid more on Planetside 2 than if I had paid 6 months worth of subs, although I know some people are able to just not spend money.


imo dont limit yourself to games based on their payment method, you'll miss out on great games, like Darkfall UW

I personally agree with you, you shouldn't limit yourself to a specific payment model. However, the current subscription games don't truly have more that what F2P models have to offer.

 I also know that Darkfall is not the type of game that everyone would like. I personally love it. It's a hardcore PvP MMO. But a lot of the casual gamers will most likely dislike it because of the fact that the game is not forgiving at all.

Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.


Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

OP  12/15/12 8:10:08 PM#207
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

I personally agree with you, you shouldn't limit yourself to a specific payment model. However, the current subscription games don't truly have more that what F2P models have to offer.

 I also know that Darkfall is not the type of game that everyone would like. I personally love it. It's a hardcore PvP MMO. But a lot of the casual gamers will most likely dislike it because of the fact that the game is not forgiving at all.

And its population tells you how popular it is.

Going back to the topic of the thread, it is really about competition. I wouldn't go F2P only, if there weren't so many F2P games, and personally i found many to be fun.


Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/12
Posts: 64

12/16/12 4:42:15 AM#208

Poster:       here is a thoughts and my Opinions

troll A:         your wrong because of this symantic

troll B:         im gonna gang up on you with Troll A because im weak

Poster:       Here is why i think the way i do

Troll A:       Here is why your wrong with no proof

Troll B:       YEAH!!

Person A:  I  think poster has a few good points

Troll A:       Im gonna take 1 word and build on it cause its all i have

Troll B:      HAHA Troll A burned you!

Person B: DIdnt Apoc just burn these trolls to bits?

Person A: I though he did too

Troll A:    nuu uhh!

Troll B:    your stupid!!



Seriously you all just fight to fight, I would love to see a conversation like

this happen in real life, It would end up with troll A and B both on the ground

wishing they had never been born.


You all know who is troll A and B here dont you?



Destiny has cheated me
By forcing me to decide upon
The woman that I idolise
Or the hands of an automaton

Without these hands I can't complete
The opera that was captivating her
But if I keep them, and she marries him
Then he probably won't want me dating her


Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 263

12/16/12 9:42:19 PM#209

Lol way back on page 7 I was reading about eq1 free to play and the answer to the restrictions is obvious.  You can pay 500 station cash for Silver, that's a whole 5 dollars without a station cash sale or just spend the same 5 dollars during a double/triple like I did and get enough to unlock another class/race.  

I've bought nimbus/mount/petamorph wand/polymorph wands for fun in the store and I've unlocked inventory slots, my new char is casual the way free to play is designed right now you have to be casual, but there's still a lot of work you can do while you earn the levels and 1000 AA. 

 That's right you pay a whole 5 dollars and you get 1,000 AA not 250 AA, a major improvement, plus you get more bag space for going silver and can buy the remaining bag slots for a full inventory equivalent to gold.  

Now, the reason free to play is designed to restrict you is because gold / plat farmer spam bots will jump in and stay put at newbie beginning areas like on rappelz/last chaos/shaiya and continously spam 100 lines repeating with their website and prices.  Forcing the bots to at least pay some money to be able to hold gold prevents them from having the ability to accrue all this gold that they intend to sell for real life money. 

Unfortunately, we all suffer as players, but they really did intend it for a good reason.  Now on Lord of the Rings Online you pay a one time month sub of $15 and you get to keep full backpacks unlocked and gold cap unlocked, and you can earn Turbine Points in game by grinding Deeds to spend in the store, making Turbine's Lord of the Rings Online and perhaps Dungeons and Dragons Online as well, the best Freemium I know... 

I highly think that Star Wars : The Old Republic, Everquest 1, Vanguard and Everquest 2 did it the wrong way restricting armor usage.  Low levels up to almost cap should be able to wear any armor in the game, why? Well, it gives you people to sell armor to on the bazaar/auction house, if most players can't wear any fabled/legendary no one wants to buy your stuff (as a paying subscriber don't you like selling stuff, higher demand = higher potential profit depending on supply). 

In Everquest 1, Dungeons of Norrath augmentations which are outdated junk can't be worn by a non-gold member as they are "Prestige" despite being terribly outdated by like 6 years and worthless. Now, you can get a better adornment off trash in any zone and stack those for better stats as a free/silver player, yet you can't do Dungeons of Norrath for adornments that are severely in need of a revamp? 

Everquest 2 locks legendary/fabled armor without a gold subscription, which is fail.  Why not lock it for level 90 plus only and let groups exist? Groups began dropping only legendary gear back in Sentinel's Fate, guarenteed almost no treasure loots for free/silver sorry no gear for you.  Which, means they don't bother grouping and less people to play with us subscribers, yay sony... Why group when you can't use any gear? Just buy fabled gear with your non existant plat cap and unlock it for 150 station cash? Yep, that doesn't work unless its very cheap that you can actually hold enough plat to buy it, or just have a friend buy it for you and hand it over, lol.. 

Why lock legendary? It's all over the game, it would help groups if people could actually have a reason to group, if you buy Velious or Chains of Eternity and unlock ability to level to 95, but don't pay a subscription, there aren't even solo quest items for you, and there's basically no treasured items for you to obtain... So, no reason to bother buying expansions either, because you're locked into a sub... The only good thing about it is, unlockers are pretty cheap, so you can obtain some solo instance gear and then obtain group gear and pay like $10 one time for a ton of unlockers... 


Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 263

12/17/12 8:32:01 AM#210

Everquest 1 and 2 and Vanguard are Freemium not Free to play.  They still charge for expansions, and you don't get Velious, Age of Discovery, or Chains of Eternity for Free. You can't use green evolving adornments without buying Chains of Eternity or the ability to level past 90 without Velious.  Apparently the free game update that lets you level to 92 requires Velious, and 95 requires Chains of Eternity. 

You can't use a mercenery, roll a beastlord, or spend dungeon marks from dungeons although you can do them for experience, but the point is kind of moot when you can't buy anything and there's no loot in them, so what is really the point? You have to buy Age of Disvoery to buy any of that legendary/fabled gear and then you'd need to buy unlockers after you buy the expansion or go gold subscription after you buy the expansion. 

Everquest 1 won't let you use prestige adornments, won't let you use more than 1000 AA silver,  so everything is harder to kill, and won't let you hold much platinum, so you will have to use the cheapest backpacks and the cheapest mercenaries, however, I still find it fun to play casually even with the restrictions... 

All three Sony games will give you advertisement to go gold when you log in and when you log out.  Occasionally, if you stay online long enough you will see more advertisements, but they aren't that annoying and I'm used to them now... As I do pay money to unlock features such as classes, races, and inventory slots, as well as fun items that are on sale, I wish they'd let me pay 5 bucks to take off advertisements, or not force silver which I already have paid for to endure those advertisements... 

Free to Play such as Shaiya, Last Chaos and Rappelz was less annoying and aggrivating by far, without the advertisement pop ups that I have to always close/cancel out of and ignore, its like ignoring real life commercials on television however, you simply get used to it.  The Perfect World International gives you free expansions, and that's pretty nice of them... I wish games would just go Buy to Play because we are buying expansions regardless, why keep forcing gold subscriptions on us? 

There's the hope that eventually we can unlock it all and not have these restrictions imposed on us, hopefully get that pesky gold/platinum cap unlocked entirely, such as on Lord of the Rings Online, where you can unlock the gold cap and then remain free after a single month's subscription VIP, which also unlocks full inventory backpacks on every character that you log in during that month... 


Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 263

12/17/12 8:37:20 AM#211

Oh, and in terms of backpacks, although I read that it is 2,500 platinum or so to buy this merchant item that makes a 14 slot backpack and that you should have 5,000 platinum just to get 14 slot backpacks, you can just buy the 10 slot toolboxes from any tinkerer merchant or go find wherever a 12 slot backpack is, I imagine that those should be affordable as well... 

Also, if you go gold for one month, you could get all your backpacks in that month (farming/spending a lot of platinum), and then drop down to silver with all of those backpacks and your platinum all spent... I believe it states that you still keep your AA, but that you just can't earn any more? So, in that one month you would be able to earn and still use/keep all of those extra AA past 1,000 as well...  

Then, you'd be focused on the having fun part and being entertained, instead of the grinding AA / levels part... 


Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

12/17/12 11:02:14 AM#212

After my sub at WoW finished, I also ended runescape (which not even worth to play anymore, IMO).
Now I'm good with GW2 (bought it but no monthly fee) and Forsaken World (which I play really for free).

I avoid all traps of f2p games and play slow just for fun. I found useless to spend money to get might or became imba player. Did it once, got hacked, all gone and nobody helped to restore, so now no more money on gaming.

Therefor if I love game I can spend few $ just to support it, but my calculation will be such:

for 15$/month I could play WoW, so if I pay f2p it can be like 5$ per month (as to me it 3x less good as WoW, and I mean any of them).
Exceptions for me could be LOTRO (as u can pay like 10$ once and get a lot unlocked), and AION (which I'll never pay for as my limited edition never gave me any fun (my guess 80$ is more then enough for this boring game).

All post is just my though and strategy, sure anyone has different.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/17/12 11:17:28 AM#213
I always thought these games were a scam or pay to win.

But gw2 (halloween apart) and ps2 have converted me.

That said I am paying the 3 month sub for ps2, but what I like is once I'm not as hardcore on the game, I don't have to sub and can still play casually.

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22588

OP  12/17/12 1:20:12 PM#214
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I always thought these games were a scam or pay to win.

But gw2 (halloween apart) and ps2 have converted me.

That said I am paying the 3 month sub for ps2, but what I like is once I'm not as hardcore on the game, I don't have to sub and can still play casually.

That is the danger of over-generalization and stereotyping. There are some truth to it, and many exceptions.

PS2 is really a good casual game. For example, i only play on and off .. and my character is only L7. However, i can still kill and headshot players 10 levels above me.

The other f2P mmo i am looking forward to is Marvel Heroes. If the combat is half as fun as Diablo 3, i would be playing for a long time, and may even drop a bit of money.



Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 263

12/18/12 3:28:55 AM#215
Oh, and I forgot to mention Everquest 2 took the platinum cap off for everyone silver/free, I wonder if Everquest 1 did as well? I didn't read up and check on any of those updates... As my characters were newly made on a dif server and I don't have any platinum, lol... 

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 263

12/18/12 3:45:42 AM#216

So, ever since Everquest 2 removed the platinum cap it is very easily playable at silver, which is 500 sc.  Buy $5 at triple station cash promotion and you'd get 1500 station cash.  Wait for a sale and buy class/races and backpacks, you'd be good to go... at $5 that's a deal... However, you'd have to watch out and pay attention because sony doesn't announce triple station cash sales and only announced double station cash sales, so you'd mostly be going with only $1000 station cash, but that's still enough to unlock silver and buy a class/race/inventory slots on sale... 50% instant rebate after a triple station cash sale is sweet... 

You can very easily put in $10 and have enough for unlockers,  and buy fabled raid loot with the platinum cap being removed... which changes the entire dynamic of it!! At 150 station cash or 75 station cash during a 50% instant rebate sale, you could really stock up and have a full set of fabled equipment/master spells, provided that you know the economy and managed to make enough platinum to buy them... 

Master prices are down since most subscribers just research spells using the research tab (newly re-named Upgrades tab), and it isn't anywhere near as bad to buy master spells at it used to be... 

Everquest 1 allows you to use your loyalty crowns to buy character slots, so that saves money, and to buy bags of platinum apparently... Which, would net you enough platinum to buy bazaar items such as equipment, spells, and backpacks... Only thing being that you have to log in weekly, and keep your velocity up high to get enough crowns accrued, since you will lose velocity and get less crowns, and obviously gold subscribers get the max velocity of 120%, with silver getting 60%, and free only getting 30% velocity... With a cap of 2,880 silver can easily buy stuff off of the crowns loyalty merchant, and free can buy lesser items with a cap of 1,440. 

For every month of inactivity you will lose 30 % velocity, so it helps the game remain somewhat active as well... 

In order to buy bags of platinum and bags of other currencies used in Everquest 1 however, you will need to be a gold subscriber, so you have to go gold for period of time, play heavily, buy and use the bags that you buy off of the loyalty merchant, and then drop down to silver when you don't have enough time to play any longer, or you want to play other games instead.  It really is a good system... Essentially, it is awarding free money and currencies to gold subscribers only, because after all they are paying and keeping the game afloat, yet, you can still earn crowns when you are free and spend them on bags of platinum/currency as soon as you buy a gold subscription... 

So, Everquest 1 is a great deal, you can level from level 1 to max level and get 1000 AA for $5, open up inventory bag slots or other class/races for fun using sales, and then when all your chars are high enough go gold subscriber for ability to spend all of your accrued loyalty crowns on bags of platinum/other currencies.... Defiant equipment drops off trash constantly everywhere, as well as some awesome adornments (2 per a hot zone), so you don't need to buy any gear when you are low level, just grind a bit for low level spells, which will cost a pretty platinum if you roll spell casters... Yet, it is pretty easy to just skip spells that aren't required and use cheap mercenaries to help you kill trash mobs for equipment... 

Free games rock!!! The only issue I have is that nothing will net you staton cash, but that's why Turbine is the best Freemium company that I know of... 


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