Originally posted by Nobadeeftw
EA/BW sent me an email today wanting me to rejoin the game for Wookie Life Day.  Yah... that's all this game needed was a reminder of the biggest holiday flop in world history.  Idiots...

I got that email too, as did the wife.  The wife saidI am going to log in and get my life day awards.  I was like well honey you don't have any cartell coins and those life day awards,  they are not free.

She logged in anyways found out that we been merged to another server and had jiberish for a name and had to choose a name, got mad at the price of the rewards and logged off.

I thought life day rewards for sale in the shop, epic fail. 

Sorry but read the official site, it clearly states if you don't subscribe to the game the only customer service you get at all is access to read the support knowledge base and FAQs. You can otherwise call their customer service line for issues with billing if you spent actual money on cartel coins and such but thats it. You are not allowed to post on the customer support forums at all, you can not use the ingame ticket buttons at all, and any submission of a support ticket via the website is answered with an automated response telling you the exact same thing I just stated.

As for my list of stuff i posted earlier and your response of everything that was wrong, sure some other games do have SOME of the same restrictions on a much smaller scale however NONE of them have all of them if even half of them.

You really should research things as well before responding because it is clearly stated on the website and more than obvious to anyone who doesnt subscribe, F2P get no access to secure trading (preferred can only after lvl10) and F2P can only recieve ingame mail not send (preferred can send but only one item at a time and can not send any credits at all). As for mission rewards not everything is directly related to usable gear. Any mission that gives those boxes you can open for random loot? Yeah, you cant pick thsoe as mission rewards either even if they are only blue boxes.

Your also right F2P can PVP but seriously? Only THREE Warzones a WEEK with greatly reduced valor and xp gains? Theres no way any f2p account will ever be able to actively take part in any actual competitive pvp with those kind of restrictions, only thing you can do is get a minor bump to your xp/credit gains while leveling up really.

Every MMO that has introduced a cash shop starts on this slippery slope. SWTOR does seem to have accelerated down it rather quickly, I wonder if these things go in cycles.

For years players were happy with subs, then the idea subs were expensive came in, then the majority (?) wanted F2P. Now players are starting to see F2P as a disguised cash cow, they want something different. The call for a fair playing field sub may start once more or we may move onto a new revenue system.

One thing is certain the grass is never greener on the other side; players thought it would be even with so many of us warning against it. Now look where we are.

well face it SWToR is in no way free to play beside slowly  leveling a twink.

I have played it about 9 months with an abo (8 months from the start and 1 months at the time of the switch). And for me one is sure Bioware only try to maximise income.

You can´t really play  with lvl 50 without having an abo (and I don´t see much lvl  50 without an Abo (easy visible because of all the restricvtions for the players without).

To participate in any end content you have to pay so h prices for (weekly passes to go to dungeon + pay to be able to loot epics + pay to be able to waer them) that it cost you more then 1 year abo . And now they add  items to motivate players that have an Abo to spent even more cash on cartell market to get additional benefits.

The result is to be competitve  you have to pay even more as before and sadly enough players are dump enough to do it.

First, I think the gaming community is going to have to come up with better terms than Free-2-Play, Pay-2-Play, Buy-2-Play, Pay-2-Win, ect. because they are all getting confusing and many overlap each other.

No game is truely Free-2-Play, of course. MMOs are essentially: 1. free game with cash shop, 2. pay once with cash shop, 3. subscription-based, 4. any combination of 1-3. Perhaps a series of letters/symbols. e.g F = free game, P=pay once or purchase game, S=subscription, C=cashshop. So SWTOR is FC. Well, you get the idea. I'm sure the community could do better, just as long as it's consistent and leaves personal bias out.

Any game with a cash shop will have an element of pay-2-win because it's hard to imagine enough people will pay for purely cosmetic changes to characters to support the game. However, IMO pay-2-win is a misnomer because almost none of these games are competitive in the sense of a pro / tournament scene, and they're not designed that way. So the element of 'winning' is irrelevant.

Having said that, there would definitely appear to be right and wrong ways to build a cash shop. And with so many games out there, it hard to believe that companies like EA/Bioware still get it wrong.

IMO PWE, whatever you think of their games, are the masters of the cash shop and there are many lessons that can be learned from what they've done in games such as  Forsaken World.

1. As others have stated, you don't sell high end gear.

Why? Pay-2-Win? No.

You don't sell high end gear because then players will have no reason to play your high-end content and many will leave as soon as they reach max lvl.

Instead, you make them earn high-end gear and make them earn the ability to upgrade their gear and skills through self-crafted items. The upgrades are where you make the money. Allow players to find 2/3 of required upgrade items in game, and 1/3 that need to be purchased. Bingo, you've got an effective cash market. Yes, this is a form of pay-2-win, but it's a P2win that entices people to keep playing.

2. You don't restrict content to subscribers only or to the purchase of weekly passes. Why? Again, you want players to have full access so they feel they belong and they want to continue to better their character so... you can sell them the upgrade stuff. Restricting content also impedes the development of the game community, something very important in MMOs.

3. You are very relaxed on the number of characters that can be created. The more the better. Because, while many people will focus on their main, there are some people who will make many characters and will spend on all of them.

Instead, it seems to me that many of the western companies are shooting themselves in the foot with their own short-term greed. And/or they don't trust their game will keep players and they just want the fast cash grab. But Build it Right and They Will Play -- and Pay !

I would rather play a pay to win game rather than a pay to ease the constrains game.

pay to win are part of convenience items for people to breeze thru stuffs they would rather pay $ than to spend time grinding provided items can be obtained ingame too.

Pay to ease the constrains means it is obligatory to pay if you want to play that game unless you have so much fun in torturing yourself with the 101 constrains. Furthermore SWTOR ensures no non-subs is able to have the same gameplay as a sub even if they are willing to pay 1000 bucks on cartel market but dont want a sub. (currency cap, char slot)

 Necessities and basic functions should never be marketed in your cash shop ever. Look at Allods when they implement their curse items upon death (only way to uncurse is cash shop), their poplulation dropped more than 50%. Until months later that they had to remove that function before some of the lost crowd came back.

let us all just wait & see which outcome will be for EA SWTOR

1. SWTOR servers shutdown due to low profits and low playerbase (At least not for now since some are being tricked into subbing at F2P launch)

2. SWTOR revamp F2P model

I played SWTOR for about 7-8 months as a subscriber, from the first day of release. And I loved it, every minute. Unfortunately not all my friends did, and the group of people I played with moved on to other games, and after a month of playing by myself, I cancelled my subs as it just wasn't fun anymore. Most of my friends however said they'd try the game again when it went free to play, and a bit more content had been added.

Those that did have universally slated the F2P model currently implemented, and I have to agree with them. I logged in after F2P went live myself, and managed about an hour before logging out in disgust.

There's a large difference between encouraging players to spend money in your shop on convenience and vanity items, and penalising them for not being a subscriber by making them pay to have access to basic gameplay features.

I mean, I have to buy action bars? Seriously? Have you tried to play the game with only 2? Doable, but it's like pulling teeth it's so painful. Not one of my characters hasn't filled up MORE than the 2 bars you get as F2P with just abilities that I use in gameplay all the time, Never mind things like my stims. Or my mounts. Or my quick travel. Or my stances. Or other *important* stuff.  I can only trade with other F2P players, and I can only receive mail, not send it? I can only have 350k credits? I can't get support for a product you want me to pay for? You mean you won't even let me tell you there's a problem, or offer a suggestion for improvement? Or even say "hey, good job, I like this", unles I give you money? These, and all the other restrictions to basic gameplay and social interaction mentioned above, don't represent a F2P model to me. It demonstrates a publisher entirely motivated by greed, and who exploitats, rather than develops, a fanbase.

I've seen other people complain about it, and it's been a while since I've played so I guess I'm out of touch, but how I remember the F2P model and shop in LOTRO being implemented is *far* superior. Simply allowing people to earn in-game currency by *playing* the game, as in LOTRO,  would immediately raise my opinion of the SWTOR model. Limit my access to instances and eaids, sure, but not entirely. Give me say half of them for free, across the level range, and let my buy into the rest, either with money, or in game currency I've earned playing the game. And for crying out loud, don't make me pay to do the instance, and then pay again to equip the items I'm lucky enough to get in the instance. And certainly don't make me pay EVERY DAMNED WEEK for the "privilege", and definitely not at prices that make it twice as expensive than it is to subscribe.

All that tells me is the publisher - and I so want to believe it's EA, and not Bioware making these decisions - is saying, "Sure, we'll give you "F2P". But we're going to give you such a broken, cut down experience that you HAVE TO PAY through the nose for a halfway playable game".

I love SWTOR, it's a fantastic example of Bioware storytelling in an MMO setting, and some of the best times I've had in my 7-8 year of playing MMOS have been in that game.

But I cannot bring myself to play a game where the players are treated with such discourtesy, are so blatantly exploited, as they currently are in SWTOR.

I really hope they rescind some of the decisions they've made, and that they start developing the player base rather than squeezing it for every cent they can get. I'm unfortunately not confident they will though, and that would be a real crying shame, and an appalling waste of the time & effort some very talented, dedicated and committed people invested to make what is otherwise a very good game.

Personally I dislike "free 2 play". Not due to the system itself. More due to what it awakens within the players. Let me list a few facts:

- Onlinegames and games in general are a product and are meant to create revenues

- The development of SWTOR took several years and roundabout USD 250.000.000.-

- If you want to perform an activity such as a hobby in real life, you have to pay:

--- Tennis: Tennis court user fee for 1 hour USD 20.- 

--- Cinema: Watch a new movie for USD 13.-

--- Dinner for 2: Have a nice dinner for you and your sweetheart for USD 50-100.-

The term "free 2 play" evolved players into ungrateful scrooges - no matter if the delivered product is good or bad. The definition of good and bad is another story, because you cannot say in general that a game is good or bad. It is a matter of each players likes and dislikes and to be honest . We all knew that SWTOR was going to have a hard start considering the huge footprints SWG left.

Bottomline. I simply do not understand how people allow themselves to argue about an optional aspect of monetarization while they are able to play the frackin game for free!? Do you stand up every day and work for free? No you do not and you never would!

Best regards

Asariasha

Originally posted by BacchusZA

I mean, I have to buy action bars? Seriously? Have you tried to play the game with only 2? Doable, but it's like pulling teeth it's so painful. Not one of my characters hasn't filled up MORE than the 2 bars you get as F2P with just abilities that I use in gameplay all the time, Never mind things like my stims. Or my mounts. Or my quick travel. Or my stances. Or other *important* stuff.  I can only trade with other F2P players, and I can only receive mail, not send it? I can only have 350k credits? I can't get support for a product you want me to pay for? You mean you won't even let me tell you there's a problem, or offer a suggestion for improvement? Or even say "hey, good job, I like this", unles I give you money? These, and all the other restrictions to basic gameplay and social interaction mentioned above, don't represent a F2P model to me. It demonstrates a publisher entirely motivated by greed, and who exploitats, rather than develops, a fanbase.

 

1) Mounts and Stims are not "important stuff." You only need one speeder on your bar and up to two stims. that is 3 total spots. To be honest, you should only need one stim and one adrenal. Your fast travel takes roughly 6 seconds to get to and activate from the skill tab and then it is on a cooldown. Hardly an essential for your quickbar. You must also not keep up with the latest and greatest or pay attention to fixes on things that bother you because:

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20121204

This, if you are preferred status, raises the quickbar slot total from 2 to 4. So if you have ever been a subscriber or spent 5 dollars in the game, you get this upgrade. The 350k limit on credits is to help limit credit selling. Credit sellers will need to subscribe. Not much in the game costs 350k or more other than silly color crystals and cosmetic speeders. I have roughly 18 million credits and can tell you I have no reason to spend, spend, spend. 

The only thing I dislike about F2P is the limit on warzones and flashpoints. Everything else is fine. If you want more, pay for more.

sorry. double post due to strange captcha thingy

Originally posted by Asariasha

Personally I dislike "free 2 play". Not due to the system itself. More due to what it awakens within the players. Let me list a few facts:

 

- Onlinegames and games in general are a product and are meant to create revenues

- The development of SWTOR took several years and roundabout USD 250.000.000.-

- If you want to perform an activity such as a hobby in real life, you have to pay:

--- Tennis: Tennis court user fee for 1 hour USD 20.- 

--- Cinema: Watch a new movie for USD 13.-

--- Dinner for 2: Have a nice dinner for you and your sweetheart for USD 50-100.-

 

The term "free 2 play" evolved players into ungrateful scrooges - no matter if the delivered product is good or bad. The definition of good and bad is another story, because you cannot say in general that a game is good or bad. It is a matter of each players likes and dislikes and to be honest . We all knew that SWTOR was going to have a hard start considering the huge footprints SWG left.

 

Bottomline. I simply do not understand how people allow themselves to argue about an optional aspect of monetarization while they are able to play the frackin game for free!? Do you stand up every day and work for free? No you do not and you never would!

 

Best regards

Asariasha

 

The complaints of SWTORs F2P are a valid one, as the complaints are mainly aimed at not attracting people to the game. SWTORs F2P system has turned me away from the game altogether.   I enjoy STO because if the way they do their F2P, and then I feel obliged to pay them tonnes of money for the huge amounts of fun I get for free. SWTOR I do not feel like that, I feel like they are forcing you into paying, and in the end even after spending more than a monthly fee to unlcok stuff, you still get a restricted experience. Basically SWTORs F2P = ugh , STOs F2P = nice

The main reason for this article is that space parts were added to the market bypassing gameplay, and gameplay that takes hours to do. What good is a game to log in and buy stuff when it should be about playing the game?

EA are turning the Cartel Market into a cheat system and profitting from it.

EA are using the Cartel Market to add content instead of doing events, with the Life Day Items. Every single Life Day item is on the market for real money. In other MMOs, you get items by doing an event or they give items free to subscribers. Before the market they gave out items for free to those that sub, now nothing but all on the market.

Also they do all that BEFORE putting in the obvious stuff, like purchasing more character slots. It is coming, but what is taking them so long?

Using your analogies SWTOR is like

A tennis court that only allows for 15 mins for the same price

A Cinema that provides no toilets or selling of confectionary items, although may add them later for insane prices, and have to even pay extra for a straw, cup, popcorn container etc and if they have toilets you will go spend a dollar and actually do it (instaed of spend a penny and not actually do it) ie other cinemas are better value and more enjoyable

A Dinner for 2 where the service is terrible, delivering you the wrong food, spilling drinks all over you and having to wait hours for it

That is why millions ditched SWTOR and went back to WOW (although not everyone obviosuly), where there was $15 fee and no F2P. SWTOR was just a bad WOW clone, but WOW did WOW better!

MANY (not all) the complaints about the f2p model are only valid from singular points of view.

It is like saying "I hate that I have to buy a lift ticket AND rent skis if I have never purchased skis before"

In many f2p, models the "premium/preferred/second teir" status are there for people who have already invested. So If I have purchased skis before (even though they may no longer fit) I truely do not have to rent them.

I fully agree with Asariasha's assesment about games turning people into "scrooges"

The analogy of the tennis court is like letting you use the court for free, but if you have never played tennis before giving you the option to rent/purchase the items you need to play for a "one time fee". You can use the courts all you want with all the gear if you have a club membership, or you can use the courts for free (I'm not saying playing a "full" game of tenis), or you can use the courts for free with limited resources provided by the club, or you can purchase what you need to play from the club itself.

Cash shops IN ALL GAMES are a blatant cash grab, WoW should not need a cash shop unless they are intending to bleed you of cash in addition of the sub, greedy <nasty word> (Ohh wait how dare I attack blizzard). Many cash shops are a cheat system either directly or indirectly, EXP boosts are a "cheat", kill count enhancers are a "cheat", purchasing action points instead of waiting for them the regen naturally is a "cheat". They are all cheats because they are "artificially augmenting the established system". It does not matter if the system sucks or not, it does not matter if the system was designed to make you want to sub. They are all still "augments" to the base line.

Many people ditched SWTOR because it was "not what they expected". To say they "only" ditched becuase it was a bad wow clone makes me wonder why Rift hasn't gone f2p as it is "only a bad wow clone". In all Cash shops imho are bad, no matter the game. They are "doorways" for those who have and have not to widen the gap. The one thing that f2p does is allow the BASIC GAME TO BE PLAYED. I'm not talking about being leet, I'm not talking about "being competitive" I'm talking about simply playing the game. SWTOR flat out stated that the f2p model is there to ONLY let the player play the basic game. It isn't  there to level off of PvP arena, it isn't there to grind flashpoints, it isn't there to form grand guilds, it is there to play the BASIC storyline. The basic tools that are given are good enough for that goal.

If people cannot excersize constraint on cash shops (from any game) then they will fall down that slippery sloap and feel gyped, but remember it is your wallet and you are willingly opening it for the "extras" beyond what was promised. It doesn't matter if you feel that you are entitled to more, that isn't the issue.

Originally posted by mrrshann618

 To say they "only" ditched becuase it was a bad wow clone makes me wonder why Rift hasn't gone f2p as it is "only a bad wow clone".

That is because you just don't get it, and if you did you would understand why SWTOR is bad. The founders of Bioware even left Bioware because it was so bad.

Rift is not a bad wow clone, they are doing the right things to make the game fun and enjoyable in its own right as opposed to blatant cash grabs and Storm Legion was a winner

EA just should have added all its content it is supposed to have instead of turning it to F2P.

---

Originally posted by superniceguy

---

Originally posted by mrrshann618  To say they "only" ditched becuase it was a bad wow clone makes me wonder why Rift hasn't gone f2p as it is "only a bad wow clone".

---

That is because you just don't get it, and if you did you would understand why SWTOR is bad. The founders of Bioware even left Bioware because it was so bad.

Rift is not a bad wow clone, they are doing the right things to make the game fun and enjoyable in its own right as opposed to blatant cash grabs and Storm Legion was a winner

EA just should have added all its content it is supposed to have instead of turning it to F2P.

---

What should have happened was SWTOR guying buy to play, with cash shop like TSW. They would have won over so many players. The problem is 2.4 million in box sales and where is that 2.4 million now, not playing swtor that's for sure.

I played rift, and on the launch tons of "accusations" of it being a "bad wow clone were everywhere". To make a point clear, I never said IT WAS a bad Wow clone, I said it was "only a bad wow clone" (you know, paraphrasing what others have spouted off earlier across several boards) I also Enjoyed Rift, however due to cash constraints at the time I let my sub die. I have yet to "bother" with resubbing as I can simply play many games f2p at this current stage, SWTOR being one of them.

You also know what is funny.  Richard Garrett also left the employment of NcSoft becuase of differences of opinnion... Ohh Wait that's right that isn't what happened. People are fired from their job due to "conflicts of interest", Not that I'm being cynical, but in order for EA to grab full reigns of a company they have to "amicably part ways with the prior owners". However like many retail outlets, just becuase a company owns the store does not make all departments "bad or evil" that is entirely dependant on who works in those departments.

Personally I do not see SWTOR as bad. Nor do I see WoW is bad. I will, however, never pick up WoW again, I'd rather play SWTOR till it's dying day then be "forced" to play WoW. WoW is not my cup of tea, end of statement. I understand some people's confusion on the differences, they are there, they may only be cosmetic, but they are there.

I like the Idea of SWTOR going the same route as TSW, however there is so much hatred over the "concept" of swtor that  the player bases "percieved" entitlement of what a f2p should be that it simply will not fly as many people will not even try.

What is even more funny is that my prior post consists of several paragraphs about a "cash shop" and 1 paragraph directly referencing SWTOR, and that is the one that people latch on to and "attack". Funny, I defend a companies choice on the f2p model, for good or ill, and "I don't get it".

Haven't you all seen.

A fansite , where mainly the remaining SWTOR players of a game under siege from the press and reviews for months now , says EA is making billions of dollars in the Cartel market because fans of the game reported themselves they are spending 100k each monthly.

I mean , if an anonymous sample of fans of something clicking on something they can make completely up without any effort are saying its happening it must be true right ?

Originally posted by mrrshann618

I played rift, and on the launch tons of "accusations" of it being a "bad wow clone were everywhere". To make a point clear, I never said IT WAS a bad Wow clone, I said it was "only a bad wow clone" (you know, paraphrasing what others have spouted off earlier across several boards) I also Enjoyed Rift, however due to cash constraints at the time I let my sub die. I have yet to "bother" with resubbing as I can simply play many games f2p at this current stage, SWTOR being one of them.

You also know what is funny.  Richard Garrett also left the employment of NcSoft becuase of differences of opinnion... Ohh Wait that's right that isn't what happened. People are fired from their job due to "conflicts of interest", Not that I'm being cynical, but in order for EA to grab full reigns of a company they have to "amicably part ways with the prior owners". However like many retail outlets, just becuase a company owns the store does not make all departments "bad or evil" that is entirely dependant on who works in those departments.

Personally I do not see SWTOR as bad. Nor do I see WoW is bad. I will, however, never pick up WoW again, I'd rather play SWTOR till it's dying day then be "forced" to play WoW. WoW is not my cup of tea, end of statement. I understand some people's confusion on the differences, they are there, they may only be cosmetic, but they are there.

I like the Idea of SWTOR going the same route as TSW, however there is so much hatred over the "concept" of swtor that  the player bases "percieved" entitlement of what a f2p should be that it simply will not fly as many people will not even try.

What is even more funny is that my prior post consists of several paragraphs about a "cash shop" and 1 paragraph directly referencing SWTOR, and that is the one that people latch on to and "attack". Funny, I defend a companies choice on the f2p model, for good or ill, and "I don't get it".

SWTOR is bad as FACT, EA have admited it, Bioware have admited, the Doctors have left, millions of people quit the game, people have lost their jobs, and plenty of articles not liking aspects of SWTOR like this one, but it does not mean some people will not like it, and that is great, SWTOR is only great on few individual opinions.

It is funny you mention Tabula Rase - you know what happened to it? It got shut down. With EAs lack of attention to SWTOR, and nothing happening to it with content taking a year to get in game, does not bode too well for SWTOR either. It just seems the stretching the little content they have, before it follows Tabula Rasa to the grave.

The reason it did not go B2P like TSW, is so that EA could get as much money as they possibly could from loyal fans, the ones willing to chuck in the dough. They saw the success of F2P from other games, and thought it would do the same for them. I can not see those not wanting to pay $15 which made the game go F2P, end up paying $100s or $1000s in the cash shop.

I did not latch on to the one thing you said, but just quoted the bit i wanted to comment on, the rest would have just been reiterating what I just posted, I had nothing further to add from what I already said.

Why defend their F2P when it is obvilously bad? EA have even changed parts of it saying they are listening, because it was bad. If it was not bad they would not change it. By defending it all you are doing is keeping things bad, and preventing more people from bothering with and enjoying the game.

As a Matter of fact I do know what happened to Tabula Rasa. I played until the bitter end. I was even attempting to help with the fan based resurection of TR before NcSoft threatened big time action against us if we even dreamed about trying to resurrect it. If NcSoft hadn't "killed it" before, many believe it's time, I would still be playing it. Thanks to Tabula Rasa I got invited to Aion beta, and saw what a wonderfully crappy company NcSoft truly is.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Why defend their F2P when it is obvilously bad? EA have even changed parts of it saying they are listening, because it was bad. If it was not bad they would not change it. By defending it all you are doing is keeping things bad, and preventing more people from bothering with and enjoying the game.

I'm defending their choice. I've stated, in other threads, that I think the Lotro way of doing things is better/best imho. At the same time I'm defending the choice of people wanting to play/try it without having to "succumb to peer presure" or at least give it a fair shot, as in more than 20 mins. The first step in fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem. EA seems to have satisfied that qualification. As you stated above, they are fixing things, possibly slowly, possibly only minorly, But they are at least taking that first step towards POSSIBLY fixing the game.

However THIS is a thread about the cartel market, not necissarily about the f2p model. While they are linked they are two different issues. I made an observation that people in general feel the need to visciously attack the f2p model, and comments made about it, while suffering semi-personal attacks

Originally posted by superniceguy

That is because you just don't get it, and if you did you would understand why SWTOR is bad.

I understand EA is a greedy nasty company. MOST companies are greedy nasty companies however many put forward the air that they truely care about more than your money. I respect them for being so blatant about it with thier cash grab, I agree with some of their practices, it doesn't mean however that I like the way things are handled. being the way they are I know what to expect instead of investing in a game physically and mentally for the long haul I can truely enjoy my time for what it is. ANY game with a cash shops is a BLATANT attempt to grab cash. in the case of GW2 it is their means of revenue and I feel that is slightly more acceptable, it however does not change the fact that it is a blatant cash grab. To single out a game becuase "X company is greedy" is justt saying that it is ok for a kettle to be black.

If in order to fix the game they need to leech people, then more power to them. If people are willing to spend money on the Cartel shop, that is their business. If they spend to much and the game shuts down, it was their own fault. To call EA evil/Bad when all cash shops are essentially the same is just looking at everythin else with rose colored glasses. If the Cartel goes p2W and that is "bad" then EVERY p2w game is bad. All f2p games have included "basic functionality" and none have promised more than that. There is no "industry standard" there is only what people feel they are entitled to when it comes to a f2p/cash shop model.

Originally posted by mrrshann618

As a Matter of fact I do know what happened to Tabula Rasa. I played until the bitter end. I was even attempting to help with the fan based resurection of TR before NcSoft threatened big time action against us if we even dreamed about trying to resurrect it. If NcSoft hadn't "killed it" before, many believe it's time, I would still be playing it. Thanks to Tabula Rasa I got invited to Aion beta, and saw what a wonderfully crappy company NcSoft truly is.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Why defend their F2P when it is obvilously bad? EA have even changed parts of it saying they are listening, because it was bad. If it was not bad they would not change it. By defending it all you are doing is keeping things bad, and preventing more people from bothering with and enjoying the game.

I'm defending their choice. I've stated, in other threads, that I think the Lotro way of doing things is better/best imho. At the same time I'm defending the choice of people wanting to play/try it without having to "succumb to peer presure" or at least give it a fair shot, as in more than 20 mins. The first step in fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem. EA seems to have satisfied that qualification. As you stated above, they are fixing things, possibly slowly, possibly only minorly, But they are at least taking that first step towards POSSIBLY fixing the game.

However THIS is a thread about the cartel market, not necissarily about the f2p model. While they are linked they are two different issues. I made an observation that people in general feel the need to visciously attack the f2p model, and comments made about it, while suffering semi-personal attacks

Originally posted by superniceguy

That is because you just don't get it, and if you did you would understand why SWTOR is bad.

I understand EA is a greedy nasty company. MOST companies are greedy nasty companies however many put forward the air that they truely care about more than your money. I respect them for being so blatant about it with thier cash grab, I agree with some of their practices, it doesn't mean however that I like the way things are handled. being the way they are I know what to expect instead of investing in a game physically and mentally for the long haul I can truely enjoy my time for what it is. ANY game with a cash shops is a BLATANT attempt to grab cash. in the case of GW2 it is their means of revenue and I feel that is slightly more acceptable, it however does not change the fact that it is a blatant cash grab. To single out a game becuase "X company is greedy" is justt saying that it is ok for a kettle to be black.

If in order to fix the game they need to leech people, then more power to them. If people are willing to spend money on the Cartel shop, that is their business. If they spend to much and the game shuts down, it was their own fault. To call EA evil/Bad when all cash shops are essentially the same is just looking at everythin else with rose colored glasses. If the Cartel goes p2W and that is "bad" then EVERY p2w game is bad. All f2p games have included "basic functionality" and none have promised more than that. There is no "industry standard" there is only what people feel they are entitled to when it comes to a f2p/cash shop model.

Maybe it is not you not getting it, maybe it is me not getting what you are getting at, you seem to be going round in circles, saying it is bad one minute then it is good.

All I know is that there are other F2P games worthy of peoples time and money, and if they make it more flexible, and less restrictive, then people would play and pay more. STO is more free to play than SWTOR is, but yet I spend more on STO than SWTOR because it is not restrictive, and makes it more of a viable experience, and you feel spending money on the game better. Perfect World are doing more for the game, hiring more staff, and is showing signs of a decent future, whereas SWTOR is not, although some unkown reason may make STO shut down before SWTOR, as last year Vanguard was looking to be shut down, but then SWG did so first, especially after LA said that both SWG and SWTOR could co-exist.

EA can do whatever they want, but they are not going to get masses into the game AND paying long term, on the F2P model they are using. I can not even buy more char slots and it is blocking me from playing the game. I have already created chars before F2P, and now can not create more chars, and can not do anything.They say they are changing this, but why are they taking so long, and not doing it BEFORE these "slippery slope" items and Life Day rip offs?

Both LOTRO and STO are F2P and put items on the store, PLUS they do events.

I do not think EA is fixing anything, they do not seem to have clue or understanding of why things work. They say you need to follow the WOW model for a successful MMO, so they do, and it flops, and then they see that F2P turns into a success but what most F2P MMOs do is make a game viabe as F2P but also in a subtle way tempt you to sub and not in a way which forces you to sub. All EA are after with this F2P model is to get you to sub, so therefore it is not going to work long term, like the other F2P games that EA have observed to be a success

The reason why millions quit the game is because of lack of content, but when people said they did not want to pay the fee, is because there wasn't enough content to keep playing, so EA takes from this that they need to make it F2P and they also want people to sub, but if they added plenty of content, then people would have subbed, and the fee would not have been an issue, and no need for it to go F2P. EA thinks that people will play the game for free, then sub, but people who bought the game, and played and quit, know exactly what the game is all about, so F2P is not the trick as it does not add the contnet which people are looking for.