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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] The Elder Scrolls Online: Progression as Longevity

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95 posts found
  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1061

12/12/12 3:10:03 PM#81
Originally posted by Arglebargle

What I find kinda funny is that people have been hollaring for years for a new DAoC.   Here comes a game obviously based strongly on DAoC's mechanics.....and it  catches the grief.  

 

My complaints about the game are pretty much about those things specifically from Elder Scrolls that get forced into the DAoC mold.

Would have been nice if they just release DOAC2 then rather then take the TESO franchise and morph into a generaic MMO with DAOC PvP.

My main gripe with the game is that, witin the limits of the game world there are artificial barriers. Unlike the other TES games, you could go anywhere in that world with total freedom. In TESO though you can only go where your faction will allow you and would have to create 2 other characters to explore the entire world given. It takes one of the most valued aspects of the game, total freedom to explore, and shoves it into a fixed and rigid box that tells you where you can and cannot go...not very TES to me.

I mean, you are locked into race/faction without any choice in the matter. What if your faction seriously pisses you off and you want to change sides? Oh thats right, create another character. That isn't a choice and choice is very important in a TES game.

  Pandaabear

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 3

12/12/12 3:53:42 PM#82
Originally posted by nate1980
They dropped the ball with this game. All they had to do was copy most if not all of the systems in the Elder Scroll games and people would be happy. But they're letting the genre they making the game for intimidate them into stupid design decisions that people have been complaining about for years, that should of never made it into the genre to begin with. 

So, what is this "stupid design decisions" that you are talkin' about? Please be more specific mate :) and what design choice is it, specificly, that "people"(not you!!!!) have been complaining about? :) I don't wanna see "bla bla bla bla", I wanna see a real answer. What, and why.

  Pandaabear

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 3

12/12/12 3:56:58 PM#83
Originally posted by Maelwydd
 
 Unlike the other TES games, you could go anywhere in that world with total freedom. In TESO though you can only go where your faction will allow you and would have to create 2 other characters to explore the entire world given.
 

I'm pretty sure you are free to go everywere whatever faction you are. The other factions is just going to be hostile to you I guess.

Or am I wrong? (Dident really read anywere that you CAN'T go to other factions area.

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1061

12/12/12 3:58:36 PM#84
Originally posted by Pandaabear
Originally posted by nate1980
They dropped the ball with this game. All they had to do was copy most if not all of the systems in the Elder Scroll games and people would be happy. But they're letting the genre they making the game for intimidate them into stupid design decisions that people have been complaining about for years, that should of never made it into the genre to begin with. 

So, what is this "stupid design decisions" that you are talkin' about? Please be more specific mate :) and what design choice is it, specificly, that "people"(not you!!!!) have been complaining about? :) I don't wanna see "bla bla bla bla", I wanna see a real answer. What, and why.

Why don't you read back through the posts and see what people don't like in terms of design descisions. See my above post for my personal dislike of a mechanic, an generic MMO mechanic, that is uneccesary and simply used to promote the PvP side of the game. PvP...the cornerstone of all TES games to date.....

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1061

12/12/12 4:00:35 PM#85
Originally posted by Pandaabear
Originally posted by Maelwydd
 
 Unlike the other TES games, you could go anywhere in that world with total freedom. In TESO though you can only go where your faction will allow you and would have to create 2 other characters to explore the entire world given.
 

I'm pretty sure you are free to go everywere whatever faction you are. The other factions is just going to be hostile to you I guess.

Or am I wrong? (Dident really read anywere that you CAN'T go to other factions area.

Well from the information we currently have you ARE restricted to only being able to explore your faction lands and the central PvP area of Cryodil. I.E. you are a Breton and when you get to the borders of Skyrim you cannot enter. If they at least let you enter at your own peril that would be a start but from the information we have currently they are just invisible walls preventing you from entering another factions lands.

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1799

"I shall take your position into consideration"

12/12/12 4:17:53 PM#86

Character progression definitely is a substance for longevity.

You say that you enjoy your character becoming stronger. However, if you basically learn other weapon / armor skills once you are capped, does it really make you stronger? Maybe more flexible if you can e.g. switch weps in the fight, but I still look at it more like having an alt, just in one char.

If I make a mage and then when I capped on it, I will exp heavy armor and 2h sword, I have not become stronger imo, I just have more variety to choose from.

While I agree with your premise that progression is one of the keys for longevity, I do not think that this is the one that would suit ME the most.

I do not say it is wrong that you like it. Just my subjective preference.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Pandaabear

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 3

12/12/12 4:21:59 PM#87
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Pandaabear
Originally posted by Maelwydd
 
 Unlike the other TES games, you could go anywhere in that world with total freedom. In TESO though you can only go where your faction will allow you and would have to create 2 other characters to explore the entire world given.
 

I'm pretty sure you are free to go everywere whatever faction you are. The other factions is just going to be hostile to you I guess.

Or am I wrong? (Dident really read anywere that you CAN'T go to other factions area.

Well from the information we currently have you ARE restricted to only being able to explore your faction lands and the central PvP area of Cryodil. I.E. you are a Breton and when you get to the borders of Skyrim you cannot enter. If they at least let you enter at your own peril that would be a start but from the information we have currently they are just invisible walls preventing you from entering another factions lands.

 

I see :) have any links on this? ^^ Would love to read actually

  Destai

Elite Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 467

12/12/12 10:46:28 PM#88
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by paulytheb
Not getting my hopes up for this one. Seems like another clone. Not planning to purchase.

I agree.

Another expensive "one-month wonder".

Pass.

 

And I also think that the so called "gaming press" is trying awfully hard to get people (us) to keep buying these games, over and over.

 

Of course they are. It's in their self interest to do so. I think it will be worth it. I don't think it will be the most amazing experience ever, but it looks like a good game. I also think that with the gaming population aging, many of us could be finding it difficult to muster that wide-eyed wonder from years before. 

 

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  Luxumaru

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/09
Posts: 258

"If at first you don't succeed, give up, it ain't gonna happen."

12/13/12 5:11:06 AM#89
I didn't see any bows in that video. Not a single one! I call sorcery and shenanigans.

Total MMOs played: 174|Enjoyed: 7. >:|

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2621

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

12/13/12 5:19:11 AM#90
Originally posted by achesoma
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Yamota

"If ZOS' Elder Scrolls Online is going to serve players a traditional theme park endgame of dungeons, raids, and PVP I can live with that"

I cannot live with that or rather I wont buy the game if this is the case. How is it acceptable that their greatest game ever, Skyrim, is freeform sandboxy yet the mmo will be a ThemePark?

That is completely un-acceptable and anyone who is fan of Skyrim should boycott this game if it will be linear ThemePark nonsense.

And yet ESO is all about free form exploration set in the same locales.

 

You get to do "most" everything in the MMO as you did in the single player RPG.  On top of this they add alot of additional features and systems that make the modern MMO fun and more conducive to a multiplayer perspective.  You get the best of both worlds, whats not to love?

Actually, this is false.  There will NOT be free form exploration.  Players will be limited to their faction zones only and of course Cyrodiil.  Unless you have a different definition of what "free form exploration" is.

Ok I look at at it like this and you can shoose to disagree but you'd still be wrong.

 

In the single player games I get to explore 1 area AND 1 AREA ONLY, whether it be Skyrim, Morrowind, or Oblivian.  In ESO if I chose to play a part of the Ebonhart Pact I get to explore SKYRIM, MORRWOIND, BLACK MARSH and CYRODILL.  All in the contextual free form open exploration like the single player.  In ESO I can chose to go whereever within my faction territories I chose and the PvP area and skip the main questline if I so chose to.  I am not bound to follow a linear path predetermined by some developers.  I get to chose where I will kill and hunt and because ESO is based on the single player game, I can pick a P.O.I., whether it be a cave, village, mountain top and usually find something to do there!

 

This is what I mean by free form exploration and that is 100% truth.  If you dont like it thats fine but to say its not free form is to be disingenious!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2621

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

12/13/12 5:21:46 AM#91
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by rammur65
and yes its gonna have free form exploration they have already said it gonna be pretty much like oblivious and skyrim in those reguards they have a set map for pvp supposedly .

Except you are excluded from almost 2/3 of the map on any given toon.

Plus there are hard race/class restrictions.

I do not recall seeing any of that in Skyrim or Oblivion.

 

I dont ever recall ever being able to go to Morrowind or Cryodill (Oblivian) while i played Skyrim so why the bitching now?  You are getting 3 times the locales as compared to the single player version.  So what if the factions are race locked, pick the race you want to play or pick the locales you want to play, you still have greater choice then the single player game!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2621

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

12/13/12 5:24:35 AM#92
Originally posted by coretex666

Character progression definitely is a substance for longevity.

You say that you enjoy your character becoming stronger. However, if you basically learn other weapon / armor skills once you are capped, does it really make you stronger? Maybe more flexible if you can e.g. switch weps in the fight, but I still look at it more like having an alt, just in one char.

If I make a mage and then when I capped on it, I will exp heavy armor and 2h sword, I have not become stronger imo, I just have more variety to choose from.

While I agree with your premise that progression is one of the keys for longevity, I do not think that this is the one that would suit ME the most.

I do not say it is wrong that you like it. Just my subjective preference.

Firstly there is gear progression just liek any normal MMO, there will be raids, crafting and other vertical progression methods.  This was already stated.

 

Secondly there is skill progression and Bill forgets to mention that your skills and abilities will get better with use not to mention you have the ability to trait certain skills in much the same way Diablo 3 does.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2716

12/13/12 11:50:09 AM#93
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by rammur65
and yes its gonna have free form exploration they have already said it gonna be pretty much like oblivious and skyrim in those reguards they have a set map for pvp supposedly .

Except you are excluded from almost 2/3 of the map on any given toon.

Plus there are hard race/class restrictions.

I do not recall seeing any of that in Skyrim or Oblivion.

 

I dont ever recall ever being able to go to Morrowind or Cryodill (Oblivian) while i played Skyrim so why the bitching now?  You are getting 3 times the locales as compared to the single player version.  So what if the factions are race locked, pick the race you want to play or pick the locales you want to play, you still have greater choice then the single player game!

That assumes that those areas are the same size as the SPG games, which they may or may not be. And even if they are, so what?

Instead, with TESO, there is 2/3 of the game world you simply can not go to, EVER, with a given toon. (Yeah, because they'd have invisible spirit immigration agents at the borders of each province.)

I can't recall not being able to go anywhere in any ES SPG game.

And as for the race/faction locks, that is just plain lazy on the part of Zenimax. And dumb. And also against the spirit of the ES SPG games, which is all about choice.

It is clear that the overwhelming design principle of TESO is "That's too hard!"

So instead Zenimax is making the "MMO that couldn't".

 

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1061

12/13/12 12:06:49 PM#94
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by rammur65
and yes its gonna have free form exploration they have already said it gonna be pretty much like oblivious and skyrim in those reguards they have a set map for pvp supposedly .

Except you are excluded from almost 2/3 of the map on any given toon.

Plus there are hard race/class restrictions.

I do not recall seeing any of that in Skyrim or Oblivion.

 

I dont ever recall ever being able to go to Morrowind or Cryodill (Oblivian) while i played Skyrim so why the bitching now?  You are getting 3 times the locales as compared to the single player version.  So what if the factions are race locked, pick the race you want to play or pick the locales you want to play, you still have greater choice then the single player game!

Well those places didn't exist within those games. Those were single player games too.

Now with have TESO, an online MMO with ALL the regions from previous games that you can explore...ooops sorry....you can mostly...ooops sorry again....40% of the game world you can explore with any character you create.

The problem is, when you move from a SPG to an MMO you expect to get MORE options not LESS. You expect MORE freedom not LESS. You expect MORE choice not LESS.

Lets think of other games. Imagine they released GTA the MMO. Do you think people would be ok if you could only explore 40% of the map based on which gang you choose? Would they be happy knowing they couldn't move into an enemy gangs teritory simply because it belongs to anotehr faction? Would they be happy to chase another gang member up to the invisible gates of their faction lands and have to just accept there is nothing that can be done to get back at them?

I am kind of arguing the point here as I accept the game is not going to change from their design choice so I am not trying to change the game. But I will be happy to continue stating why I am unhappy with their design choice, my reasons, and why I see their choices as simply being lasy or trying to cash in on a franchise, be it TES or DAOC, rather then sitting down and thinking...."right, what does this game need to be a TES game in an online environment".

 

And as for your argument for not being able to go to Morrowind while playing Skyrim....I couldn't reach Morrowind while playing X-COM either. The difference with TESO is, Morrowind and Skyrim bot EXIST as part of the game, not part of Another game. If Skyrim exists in TESO and Morrowind and and all the other 10 regions I expect to be able to go there. I also expect there to be reasons I might not want to, I expect it to be a challenge to go to some of those places...but I don't want some invisible wall stopping me when it is part of the game.

 

 

  loulaki

Elite Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 772

12/20/12 9:18:27 AM#95

after i heard about the static gameplay everything else become boring for my ears : /

well the only way to keep the player progreesion alive is to make the game sandbox, so they are trying to fight an already lost battle,  but on the other hand i would like some visual rewards than statistic rewards if they want to add something ...

anyway i believe that. the feel of power should come from the time you need to master your skills as a player and not from the time you spend to gain a skill as a character ...

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