Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by Hancakes

 great about it? Having the players pay to get some contract artist to throw a few models together. Shouldn't such things be included in the monthly subscriptions?  Setting a bad precedent, so what will we have to pay for next?

WHAHAHAHAHA you know there is this hot thing called kickstarter? It's kinda to late to set a bad precedent ;)

Yep, with all of the games getting cash shops.

At least with donations everyone gets the content, even the people who don't donate.

I feel bad for the people(if any) who may have bought the emperor package.

They must have serious mental health issues.

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by deathshroud

http://www.mortalonline.com/donations/greyhalls this link is what the donators have to go on to determine if they should donate. Not very much at all.

I think it's great they are doing this. It allows the game to grow faster; no one is forced to donate and everyone will benefit.

 

What's great about it? Having the players pay to get some contract artist to throw a few models together. Shouldn't such things be included in the monthly subscriptions?  Setting a bad precedent, so what will we have to pay for next?

 

No, you don't understand.

 

Players are asking for features in all of the AAA mmorpgs. They will never get them. With MO it's possible.

 

Of course in a perfect world the devs would make everything with the subscriptions. But this dream world of yours doesn't exist. Even the well funded AAA companies with dozens if not hundreds of millions can't make it (look at SWTOR for 1 example).

 

You don't have to pay for anything if you don't want.

 

It only allows the players who like the game to make a donation to get some proposed or asked for features faster into the game. SV did this because many players asked for it on the forums. So, as you can see, they are responding to what many of the players asked for.

 

Without the donations we would not get these features. So for me, getting features ingame is better than not getting them. Period.

 

For you, as you don't agree with donating, it will only make the game better than if donations didn't exist. This is a win-win situation for everyone.

 

So in essence MO now has the ultimate Cash Shop, except in this one they are offering the players a Developer to do your bidding, so long as the price is met, and so long as it's what the Devs themselves tell you they are going to make, thats not a player choice now is it, your still having to swallow what the devs push out there, it will just be a coincidence that what they produce will be what some of the players actually wanted.

Originally posted by Pivotelite

I feel bad for the people(if any) who may have bought the emperor package.

 

They must have serious mental health issues.

So do the people who buy expensive cars, homes, vacations.... ? Guess what? Some people are even going to casinos and they love it.

Not everyone loves good wine and is ready to pay for it. In the same way, the people who pay so much for MO obviously love this game and what the developers are doing with their limited resources.

But I guess people who don't love the things you do have serious mental health issues?

Originally posted by AwDiddums

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by deathshroud

http://www.mortalonline.com/donations/greyhalls this link is what the donators have to go on to determine if they should donate. Not very much at all.

I think it's great they are doing this. It allows the game to grow faster; no one is forced to donate and everyone will benefit.

 

What's great about it? Having the players pay to get some contract artist to throw a few models together. Shouldn't such things be included in the monthly subscriptions?  Setting a bad precedent, so what will we have to pay for next?

 

No, you don't understand.

 

Players are asking for features in all of the AAA mmorpgs. They will never get them. With MO it's possible.

 

Of course in a perfect world the devs would make everything with the subscriptions. But this dream world of yours doesn't exist. Even the well funded AAA companies with dozens if not hundreds of millions can't make it (look at SWTOR for 1 example).

 

You don't have to pay for anything if you don't want.

 

It only allows the players who like the game to make a donation to get some proposed or asked for features faster into the game. SV did this because many players asked for it on the forums. So, as you can see, they are responding to what many of the players asked for.

 

Without the donations we would not get these features. So for me, getting features ingame is better than not getting them. Period.

 

For you, as you don't agree with donating, it will only make the game better than if donations didn't exist. This is a win-win situation for everyone.

 

So in essence MO now has the ultimate Cash Shop, except in this one they are offering the players a Developer to do your bidding, so long as the price is met, and so long as it's what the Devs themselves tell you they are going to make, thats not a player choice now is it, your still having to swallow what the devs push out there, it will just be a coincidence that what they produce will be what some of the players actually wanted.

No, you don't have to swallow anything if you don't want to (but you stll get the donation content for free).

And yes, it's a players choice to donate or not. And again the players asked for it.

And again, it's the first donation. More options will come if players want it; they've been talking of making polls. What would you prefer? Having us wait 6 months before donations start so that their small team first gets the time to analyse all the possibilities and make up grand plans for donation content? And meanwhile they wouldn't be working on the schedduled content because they are in meetings designing grand donation plans?

People, think! Even the huge teams with hundreds of developers are slow in pushing new content out (and most fail in making something great). What do you expect of a small team like SV?

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hancakes

The player base had been getting his services for free.

 

Yes, but now they had to cut staff as they don't have the funds anymore. You can as much as you want, when there's no money ...there's no money.

Anyway, they said what he's doing for the donation is extra work outside of normal planned development scheddule. So even if they had cash to pay him he would be working on something else planned in the development scheddule.

Again, I prefer to get something I am ready to pay for than getting nothing. And even getting something I don't want to pay for, but if it interests other people I'd be getting it for free interests me as well.

You are too funny...

If these "additions" are so important to the MO player base, why can't Henrik take a week and have SV do it?  Really... whats another week delay in MOs "development", many of us have already waited 2.5 years.

People can do whatever thay want with their money, but trying to spin this as a good thing is laughable. Henrik owes the players who stuck with MO over the years. not the other way around.  You even stated the game wasn't worth playing to this point, yet many people kept the faith with multiple accounts. $$$  Here we are with Henrik putting his hand out once again.

Originally posted by BigMango
 No, you don't have to swallow anything if you don't want to (but you stll get the donation content for free).

And yes, it's a players choice to donate or not. And again the players asked for it.

And again, it's the first donation. More options will come if players want it; they've been talking of making polls. What would you prefer? Having us wait 6 months before donations start so that their small team first gets the time to analyse all the possibilities and make up grand plans for donation content? And meanwhile they wouldn't be working on the schedduled content because they are in meetings designing grand donation plans?

People, think! Even the huge teams with hundreds of developers are slow in pushing new content out (and most fail in making something great). What do you expect of a small team like SV?

 

Oh yes, the good ol' small team defense. I don't know how many times it has been said, as long as they ask for an AAA-price subfee, it doesn't mean anything. If you act like a bigtime developer, you better deliver on that.

SV has what, 3 developers and one of them doesn't even get money (paratus?). This company is by far the worst one in the business. I've never seen so amateurish "company" to live so long. It's alive only, because it's a hobby of a rich man's son.

I know they're F2P now (P2W really), but they should've adopted that model at least 2 years ago. Obviously they have their hardcore following of around 50-100 subs (wonder how many of those are people with 2-3 subs). These people are so devoted and oblivious, that they'd even buy a piece of doodoo if SV had produced it.

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hancakes

What's great about it? Having the players pay to get some contract artist to throw a few models together. Shouldn't such things be included in the monthly subscriptions?  Setting a bad precedent, so what will we have to pay for next?

 

No, you don't understand.

 

Players are asking for features in all of the AAA mmorpgs. They will never get them. With MO it's possible.

 

Of course in a perfect world the devs would make everything with the subscriptions. But this dream world of yours doesn't exist. Even the well funded AAA companies with dozens if not hundreds of millions can't make it (look at SWTOR for 1 example).

 

Swtor did deliver, they are just not delivering what the customer wanted (ie. Illum fix, proper space game). There is a difference.

What you've said are all nonsense. What you are saying is similar to saying that what you pay a water company is to get clean water is not enough to get clean water, so they'll have to ask for donations to hire someone to clean that water for you - while it is their own job to clean the water in the first place. Do you even realise how asinine and illogical that sounds? lol

If one can't even provide the basic service that they were paid to provide, they shouldn't even be running that business in the first place.

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hancakes

The player base had been getting his services for free.

 

Yes, but now they had to cut staff as they don't have the funds anymore. You can as much as you want, when there's no money ...there's no money.

Anyway, they said what he's doing for the donation is extra work outside of normal planned development scheddule. So even if they had cash to pay him he would be working on something else planned in the development scheddule.

Again, I prefer to get something I am ready to pay for than getting nothing. And even getting something I don't want to pay for, but if it interests other people I'd be getting it for free interests me as well.

You are too funny...

If these "additions" are so important to the MO player base, why can't Henrik take a week and have SV do it?  Really... whats another week delay in MOs "development", many of us have already waited 2.5 years.

People can do whatever thay want with their money, but trying to spin this as a good thing is laughable. Henrik owes the players who stuck with MO over the years. not the other way around.  You even stated the game wasn't worth playing to this point, yet many people kept the faith with multiple accounts. $$$  Here we are with Henrik putting his hand out once again.

Again, you seem totaly lost with this. You don't understand the concept of donation, do you?

No, they are not so important to the player base. This is precisely why they are not part of the normal development scheddule and given for donations.

The team already has too much on its plate to handle, and you would want them to delay bug fixing and shedduled game features?

This company has no funds to do better than what they are doing now. Are you too young to understand basic economics?

Originally posted by Rawiz

Originally posted by BigMango
 No, you don't have to swallow anything if you don't want to (but you stll get the donation content for free).

And yes, it's a players choice to donate or not. And again the players asked for it.

And again, it's the first donation. More options will come if players want it; they've been talking of making polls. What would you prefer? Having us wait 6 months before donations start so that their small team first gets the time to analyse all the possibilities and make up grand plans for donation content? And meanwhile they wouldn't be working on the schedduled content because they are in meetings designing grand donation plans?

People, think! Even the huge teams with hundreds of developers are slow in pushing new content out (and most fail in making something great). What do you expect of a small team like SV?

 

Oh yes, the good ol' small team defense. I don't know how many times it has been said, as long as they ask for an AAA-price subfee, it doesn't mean anything. If you act like a bigtime developer, you better deliver on that.

SV has what, 3 developers and one of them doesn't even get money (paratus?). This company is by far the worst one in the business. I've never seen so amateurish "company" to live so long. It's alive only, because it's a hobby of a rich man's son.

I know they're F2P now (P2W really), but they should've adopted that model at least 2 years ago. Obviously they have their hardcore following of around 50-100 subs (wonder how many of those are people with 2-3 subs). These people are so devoted and oblivious, that they'd even buy a piece of doodoo if SV had produced it.

It's the only company that has managed to bring us a fantasy mmoprg sanbox.

It's easy to talk as you do, behind your screen and keyboard, but he had a dream as a player and he went out and THEY DID IT. It's not perfect yet, but still Kudos to them.

Apart from CPP with EVE and  AV with the non-sanbox but pvp game Darkfall (DF has no place here as it isn't on the same level at all), all of the others so called big AAA development houses with hundreds of developers and millions have been spoonfeading us the same old WOW game with the exact same mechanics and the same "go fetch me this same thing quests over and over again".

No other company with their millions has been able to deliver what SV did with this small team and limited funds. And today it's still far from perfect, but I finaly see an awesome game that works. There's still a lot to do, but nevertheless : many thanks and my gratitude goes out to Henrik and his team. 

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hancakes

The player base had been getting his services for free.

 

Yes, but now they had to cut staff as they don't have the funds anymore. You can as much as you want, when there's no money ...there's no money.

Anyway, they said what he's doing for the donation is extra work outside of normal planned development scheddule. So even if they had cash to pay him he would be working on something else planned in the development scheddule.

Again, I prefer to get something I am ready to pay for than getting nothing. And even getting something I don't want to pay for, but if it interests other people I'd be getting it for free interests me as well.

You are too funny...

If these "additions" are so important to the MO player base, why can't Henrik take a week and have SV do it?  Really... whats another week delay in MOs "development", many of us have already waited 2.5 years.

People can do whatever thay want with their money, but trying to spin this as a good thing is laughable. Henrik owes the players who stuck with MO over the years. not the other way around.  You even stated the game wasn't worth playing to this point, yet many people kept the faith with multiple accounts. $$$  Here we are with Henrik putting his hand out once again.

 

Again, you seem totaly lost with this. You don't understand the concept of donation, do you?

No, they are not so important to the player base. This is precisely why they are not part of the normal development scheddule and given for donations.

The team already has too much on its plate to handle, and you would want them to delay bug fixing and shedduled game features?

This company has no funds to do better than what they are doing now. Are you too young to understand basic economics?

I understand you are new to the game, but SV has had no funds for over a year.  Feel free to check out their finacial reports. http://www.aktietorget.se/QuotesInstrument.aspx?Language=2&InstrumentID=SE0002149369

Too much on their plate, you just said how great the game was???  The point you are failing to grasp is nothing has changed at SV other than you are now "paying" for content that was previously free.  Unless you are privy  to a new reduction in develpoment staff

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Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

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Originally posted by BigMango

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Originally posted by Hancakes What's great about it? Having the players pay to get some contract artist to throw a few models together. Shouldn't such things be included in the monthly subscriptions?  Setting a bad precedent, so what will we have to pay for next?

---

  No, you don't understand.   Players are asking for features in all of the AAA mmorpgs. They will never get them. With MO it's possible.   Of course in a perfect world the devs would make everything with the subscriptions. But this dream world of yours doesn't exist. Even the well funded AAA companies with dozens if not hundreds of millions can't make it (look at SWTOR for 1 example).  

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Swtor did deliver, they are just not delivering what the customer wanted (ie. Illum fix, proper space game). There is a difference. What you've said are all nonsense. What you are saying is similar to saying that what you pay a water company is to get clean water is not enough to get clean water, so they'll have to ask for donations to hire someone to clean that water for you - while it is their own job to clean the water in the first place. Do you even realise how asinine and illogical that sounds? lol

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Er, no. Not at all.

This is absolutely not what they are doing and not what they intend to do with the donations.

Go read the links above to get yourself informed.

In this example:

1. The water company brings you the water every day for free (f2p).

2. If you want hier skill levels (100 instead of 60) and 4 water pipes instead of 3 or 1 (4 character slots) you pay a monthly sub.

3. You can donate if you want, and you'll get a glass of wine on top of the water. And even if you don't donate you still get the glass of wine for free thanks to the players who donate.

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If one can't even provide the basic service that they were paid to provide, they shouldn't even be running that business in the first place.  

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Basic service seems provided since last week. (I haven't really been playing the game before because this service was not provided before).

And they are the only company who has been providing this service since UO, so they are very much wanted here. No one forces you to pay them anything if you don't want; neither do they, they are even letting you play for free.

Originally posted by BigMango

 

It's the only company that has managed to bring us a fantasy mmoprg sanbox.

 

 

i think you need to go have another look.   Usually when an MO fan makes that remark it is after numerous qualifiers such as "Fantasy, FFA, Full-Loot, Open World, First Person, Unreal Engine, Sandbox MMORPG". 

But anyhow... as far as donations go.. people can do whatever they want with their money.  I would MUCH rather SV honestly ask for donations than what they did at the start of the game when they immediately charged everyone full price for a game, delayed it for a year, tried to refuse refunds (still keeping everyones cash) and then ninja subscribed everyone that ever ordered the game.  Asking for donations is one of the more open and honest things they have done, as long as they actually deliver what they are promising... which is something they STILL haven't done for those who orginally ordered that game in 2009.

Is there some sort of tracker that shows donations and progress to their goal?

Originally posted by BigMango

It's the only company that has managed to bring us a fantasy mmoprg sanbox.

It's easy to talk as you do, behind your screen and keyboard, but he had a dream as a player and he went out and THEY DID IT. It's not perfect yet, but still Kudos to them.

Apart from CPP with EVE and  AV with the non-sanbox but pvp game Darkfall (DF has no place here as it isn't on the same level at all), all of the others so called big AAA development houses with hundreds of developers and millions have been spoonfeading us the same old WOW game with the exact same mechanics and the same "go fetch me this same thing quests over and over again".

No other company with their millions has been able to deliver what SV did with this small team and limited funds. And today it's still far from perfect, but I finaly see an awesome game that works. There's still a lot to do, but nevertheless : many thanks and my gratitude goes out to Henrik and his team. 

 

Hey, 2010 called - it wants its fanboys back.

Who cares about the dream? Who cares about team size? It's the result that matters. We all want a fantasy sandbox, but that doesn't mean we should support any crappy product just because it labels itself as such.

SV has had years to prove themselves and they failed, again and again. This new "ftp" deal is just another attempt to squeeze a few miserable bucks from the remaining fans, and it's so muddled up with shady donations offers and ptw logic that it's embarrasing.

Originally posted by BigMango

 Er, no. Not at all.

This is absolutely not what they are doing and not what they intend to do with the donations.

Go read the links above to get yourself informed.

In this example:

1. The water company brings you the water every day for free (f2p).

2. If you want hier skill levels (100 instead of 60) and 4 water pipes instead of 3 or 1 (4 character slots) you pay a monthly sub.

3. You can donate if you want, and you'll get a glass of wine on top of the water. And even if you don't donate you still get the glass of wine for free thanks to the players who donate.

 

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If one can't even provide the basic service that they were paid to provide, they shouldn't even be running that business in the first place.  

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Basic service seems provided since last week. (I haven't really been playing the game before because this service was not provided before).

And they are the only company who has been providing this service since UO, so they are very much wanted here. No one forces you to pay them anything if you don't want; neither do they, they are even letting you play for free.

Firstly, f2p is not free - the subscribers ARE playing for the game, the free players are no different than trial. The subbers AT LEAST paid for contents that wasn't delivered or delivered properly, for a long tiem now.

Secondly, water is NOT free, as it is a national resource. your counter example is just bad.

Thirdly, wine and water is NOT even the same produce, of course THAT you ahve to pay separately. It is like saying you pay to play MO and expect to be able to play Darkfall for no added cost. You are not respondign to the arguement, you are just making up some crazy, totally unrelated deflections.

Fourthly, I don't know why you keep talking about wine.

Finally, I don't know what you consider basic service. The job of MO provider is NOT to just run the server, but to run an entertainment service that works. The server might be running, but the entertainment service is not working as expected. That's only half the service provide.

I don't know what your response to these points are, but I got a feeling you probably going to just deflect some more with some totally unrelated and crazy answers and start delving into wine and cheese more again.

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Originally posted by Hancakes I understand you are new to the game, but SV has had no funds for over a year.  Feel free to check out their finacial reports. http://www.aktietorget.se/QuotesInstrument.aspx?Language=2&InstrumentID=SE0002149369

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Yes I've seen this.

Doesn't change these facts for me:

1. There is no other fantasy mmorpg. AV is the only company since UO to have done this. I would like to try out another game, but there's nothing else.

There's only : EVE (space), Darkfal (pvp with limited crafting) and WOW (and its dozen copies.... AoC, Rift, GW2, SWTOR, etc..).

2. The game still needs fixing, but it now works. I am already impressed with the depth of the game mechanics, but long term players are telling me that I have only scratched the surface and that there's so much more to see.

3. Back to 1: there's no other fantasy sandbox mmorpg.

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Too much on their plate, you just said how great the game was???  The point you are failing to grasp is nothing has changed at SV other than you are now "paying" for content that was previously free.  Unless you are privy  to a new reduction in develpoment staff

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I have tried the game out several times before, but it was broken. What has changed for me now is that the game is finaly playable since last week. This is why I'm here and I am enjoying myself a lot.

If there was another game I would be trying it out, but there's no other fantasy sandbox mmorpg. Of course I'll be subbing to Darkfall 2 to try it out, but I already know it's only a pvp contest game.

Really, I can't stand the WOW copies anymore. It's always the same game (SWTOR, GW2, Rift,...). Always the exact same thing, over and over again.

Fortunately, AV is still here and I am thankfull for the efforts they are putting into this, it mustn't be easy with the difficulties theay are facing. Of course it would be much easier to bankrupt the company to file for unemployment allowances and come spend their free time here to complain and bash games with your lot. Thanks to them for sticking it out.

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Originally posted by Biskop

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Originally posted by BigMango It's the only company that has managed to bring us a fantasy mmoprg sanbox. It's easy to talk as you do, behind your screen and keyboard, but he had a dream as a player and he went out and THEY DID IT. It's not perfect yet, but still Kudos to them. Apart from CPP with EVE and  AV with the non-sanbox but pvp game Darkfall (DF has no place here as it isn't on the same level at all), all of the others so called big AAA development houses with hundreds of developers and millions have been spoonfeading us the same old WOW game with the exact same mechanics and the same "go fetch me this same thing quests over and over again". No other company with their millions has been able to deliver what SV did with this small team and limited funds. And today it's still far from perfect, but I finaly see an awesome game that works. There's still a lot to do, but nevertheless : many thanks and my gratitude goes out to Henrik and his team.   

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Hey, 2010 called - it wants its fanboys back. Who cares about the dream? Who cares about team size? It's the result that matters. We all want a fantasy sandbox, but that doesn't mean we should support any crappy product just because it labels itself as such.

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For me it's now good enough to be played, so I am playing it (didn't before because it was broken).

For you it isn't good enough, so you aren't playing it.

Sounds like business as usuall, the same we can read in every other game section on these forums.

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SV has had years to prove themselves and they failed, again and again. This new "ftp" deal is just another attempt to squeeze a few miserable bucks from the remaining fans, and it's so muddled up with shady donations offers and ptw logic that it's embarrasing.

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I refused to play the game before because it was broken. So to me they finaly proved themselves.

Thanks to the f2p I tried this game again. Without it I would never have tried it again. And I see new players all over the world.

Imho, doing the donations is better than doing nothing. At least we get some added content instead of nothing. Players asked for the donation possibility repeatedly on the forums. This is why they did it; there's nothing shady in this. But I guess you prefer the cash shops the other games are doing. At least with the donations everyone gets the content, even those who don't pay.

mango likes the game, if you like the concept then great. Nobody can tell you you shouldnt play it based on their own taste.

if you're interested in MO then theres a F2P way of giving it a try, im willing to let those interested make up their own minds by actually playing it.