Would all this be as opposed to all the MMOs that come out these days with some ridiculous amount of millions of dollars of investment, so many  devolopers that you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a good dozen of them? 

And with all those devs, and that huge workforce, we still get more tokens, more 6v6 pvp, more endless gear treadmill, more linear gameplay of the same ol same ol...

Imagine that, shallow gameplay.

As far as sizable PvP being a massive vaporlock, well, we all know a ton of money, and "some of the most experienced developers in the world" weren't able to curb that from happening, so i guess all hope is lost for any decent MMO ever being made?

I actually have more confidence in an "indie" developer pulling off a good MMO these days than the guys who consider themselves "AAA" developers. Those top notch guys seem to be stuck in some sort of "linear" developing cycle they can't break out of, its somewhat scary.

Not sure if these guys are the answer, but heres to hoping. 

Originally posted by Marcus-

Would all this be as opposed to all the MMOs that come out these days with some ridiculous amount of millions of dollars of investment, so many  devolopers that you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a good dozen of them? 

 

And with all those devs, and that huge workforce, we still get more tokens, more 6v6 pvp, more endless gear treadmill, more linear gameplay of the same ol same ol...

 

Imagine that, shallow gameplay.

 

As far as sizable PvP being a massive vaporlock, well, we all know a ton of money, and "some of the most experienced developers in the world" weren't able to curb that from happening, so i guess all hope is lost for any decent MMO ever being made?

 

I actually have more confidence in an "indie" developer pulling off a good MMO these days than the guys who consider themselves "AAA" developers. Those top notch guys seem to be stuck in some sort of "linear" developing cycle they can't break out of, its somewhat scary.

 

Not sure if these guys are the answer, but heres to hoping. 

That summed up a lot of what I've been thinking. Nice.

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

To the original poster:

I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

Its easy to say that a new mmo will be an epic fail, couse alomst all mmos after wow were fails. Espacially sandbox games with a small budged.

Well, I say that the chance for this game to last more then one year and make some profit is about 5%.

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

To the original poster:

I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

 

Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

It can be played on servers in Multi Player mode. That fits the Multi-player bit. The Massively element really depends on the tech of the server. Beefier servers can allow more players on at any one time. Though I'm not sure what the total cap is on the number of players allowable.

Minecraft is probably more like a Mini Multiplayer Online instead of a Massively Multiplayer Online.

From what I understand of the sandbox label it seems to fit pretty well.

Originally posted by Atrocitus

Originally posted by JC-Smith

Just need to correct a few things:

... On Size Of the Team, or Size of the Budget

While you can generally assume that more manpower = more production, that isn't always the case. In Repop, much of what we do is based on generated content. Once you have a good generation system in place, it allows you to be more efficient in your content creation. Rather than designing 7500 hand designed missions by hand, we focus on designing 500 templates. The templates specify the rules, item types, npc types, etc and each of those can be reused many times and each time the npcs, items, etc will be different. You can a lot things done with less people if you can automate or reuse a lot of it.

For things like artwork, you outsource to external artists or art houses, use licensed models, etc. Those types of things would all be mentions in the credits, but they don't count as team members.  Outsourcing is generally far more efficient from a price standpoint than if you do everything in-house.

... On Hero Engine

Your making a judgement on the engine based on how you saw TOR handle PvP or crowds of players. That is not a Hero Engine problem. It's a problem due to a lot of customization on the TOR models. It works fine for the situations the game was designed for most of the time (sparse player population, personal storyline, lot of soloing). It didn't work as well with a large number of players. But those are design decisions.  Had TOR had a primary focus on large scale PvP they probably would have gone in a different direction there, maybe sacrificing some customization to get it done.

As a renderer, Hero Engine isn't on par with the likes of Unreal Tech. But it's strength isn't in its renderer. It does a lot more than that.

... On AI

The last video footage was shot on the first day of ALPHA testing. You can't judge a game AI or any of its systems really based on a 2 second splice you saw in an alpha stage video. At that stage of development everything is still very much a work in progress.

Regarding  'size of the team/budget'....

 

So automating/reusage in quest content can allow for more content? Perhaps, but logic dictates repeating quest types will become boring after the first 30 runs.

Questing, generally speaking, is something that players are tired of, much less repeated quest type. And it can be argued that questing is a very shallow content base. In this day and age, games are moving away from this old method of keeping players busy.

You missed the highlighted red-part

The templates specify the rules, item types, npc types, etc and each of those can be reused many times and each time the npcs, items, etc will be different.

Again, in two weeks time, after players have done the requisite kill and collect quest or whatever, that type of 'content' will not add to this games allure. Same ol' same ol.....I can hear the players crying now..../shrug

So your argument about computer generated questing giving players something to do? Doesn't hold up......There has to be content, A LOT of it to keep players after the initial launch. There simply are not enough workers to contribute to the overall game.

Hmm seems you need to do alittle more researche, in a sandbox type of games it's mostly the players that provide the content, the crafting, the trading, exloring, harvesting. This seems to be a community type of game, not some hack and slash online combat game like many MMORPG are today.

How you deem 'artwork' as content is beyond me.

 Regarding Hero Engine.

Lack of customization is absolutely horrible. Players can't stand looking like the guy next to him. The only mmo that did this right was Aion. And lets face it, The Repop is no Aion when it comes to customization, or alot of other things for that matter.

Horrible graphics, zero customization and watching a pvp slideshow will do nothing to help this game.....

 Untill a game is at open beta status I see little to no use discussing alpha state of graphics apart from official tech support forums of such game. while I don't believe in great drastic changes in graphics/animations I am certain it can become slightly better.

 

Horrid AI? The oft repeated ITS IN ALPHA hurp/durp excuse isn't going to be enough when this game launches. You and I both know there won't be any massive upgrading in that dept before launch. Be honest.......

I still feel this is going to be a more of a community game then it will be a follow NPC missions > reward type of game. Most likely it's the players that make the game alive instead of depending on NPC's to do just that. Which is obviously different in ThemePark MMORPG where it's the NPC's that need to make the world alive due to the limited community interaction simply because for "most" things you don't need other people in theme-park games as they play as easy as singleplayer co-op games.

 

Customer service? You glossed over that point......Again, a small work force won't be able to handle the complaints and problems after launch.

Your lack of a larger dev team will be mired in bug squishing eternally. If you think your launching with a lack of content, wait until two months down the road when people are wondering where the content updates are, and your still dealing with alpha bugs......

 I actually feel the smaller the dev-team the more focus there is. a hugh dev. team bring so many people with experiance together that dev 1 has great idea while dev 2 till 100 also has some great idea's. I believe that the bigger the dev-team the harder it will be to achieve certain deadlines.

 

SImply put, this game has too many negatives going against it....../shrug

I think it's more like: It's not the type of game you will like. Just like me or anyone else you read into things of games and spot the things you like about your gaming habbit. The Repopulation doesn't seem the game for you, I read countless of game info and there is plenty around which I don't liike.

I am 100% sure it will FAIL.......in the eye's of those who seem to expect something different then what the game is able to offer.

And for those who feel atracted towards what the game actually is going to offer and already offers it's a wait and see what happens cause we can't predict the future, but we have to keep expectations releastic, especially when it comes from having expectations of a indie company. When it comes to player run economy it's something for the more patient type of gamer, those who expect 1 week after release to have a great player run economy experiance will most likely be the player that isn't playing the right game for him/her.

What I am also am certain about is that this game is targetted towards a certain niche, just like EVE, Eve isn't a mass-appeal product. It has a certain niche of gamers who enjoy the game greatly and it's considered very succesfull even though it doesn't match the might WoW subnumbers.

 

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

To the original poster:

I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

I keep looking for the word "MMO" in your OP, yet I can't find it.  Saying what you mean goes a long way to communicating your point which is empty by the way.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

To the original poster:

I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

I keep looking for the word "MMO" in your OP, yet I can't find it.  Saying what you mean goes a long way to communicating your point which is empty by the way.

The point was that a small team with little budget can make an awesome game. The "MMO" part (where was it mentioned?)  is not even relevant.

The Repopulation will not be a EPIC fail since EA has nothing to do with it

So we all now can go back to what we were playing and pretend this thread never existed, apparently the OP is talking out of arse like most negative players on any game. (However he managed to get me to post a reply )

Originally posted by JR4D

The Repopulation will not be a EPIC fail since EA has nothing to do with it

So we all now can go back to what we were playing and pretend this thread never existed, apparently the OP is talking out of arse like most negative players on any game. (However he managed to get me to post a reply )

I'm being lenient, but I'm betting the OP is another person who feels burned by a game that he/she was hoping would be better than it turned out to be.

That can sour a person on any new games and sometimes frustrations are taken out of context. 

Granted I'm giving a benefit of the doubt.

I am however glad to see that not as many people share the ideas held by the OP. That is something special. 

Originally posted by CreepProphet

A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

That's a silly myth from people who don't understand probability.  A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years would probably never produce a single correct, meaningful sentence longer than 30 characters.

Originally posted by CreepProphet

To me, listening to your customers is customer service. They are already setting precedence for having good customer service.

That's absurd.  Listening to your prospective future players is great, but isn't what you're looking for if the game has launched but you can't get it to run on your computer.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by CreepProphet

To me, listening to your customers is customer service. They are already setting precedence for having good customer service.

That's absurd.  Listening to your prospective future players is great, but isn't what you're looking for if the game has launched but you can't get it to run on your computer.

That may be the case, but no one has mentioned that anything does not run on a computer. 

Also, I would certainly hope that a game is listening to players when they state that something is not working. The next step would be to begin work to rectify the situation. 

As for the monkeys typing, it was meant to be a humorous statement to help diffuse a heated thread. Perhapse the humor is lost on some.

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

To the original poster:

I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

There is no better definition of sandbox than a set of building blocks, which is exactly what Minecraft is.

Originally posted by Atrocitus

First off, I am NOT, repeat, NOT in alpha/beta/whatever...Got it? In NO WAY HAVE I PLAYED THIS GAME YET......

 blah blah blah....

 Once again, I have NOT participated in the game...

Posting in covert 'Dear Devs, please allow me into Alpha' thread.

The more the OP posted the more that became apparent. 

I can't say I'm angry though. We've all felt upset by a game before at sometime or another. Some people just get it out in different ways than others.

Skymaster123 was in the same boat as the OP. Now Skymaster123 is waiting out The Repopulation and looking forward to it.

Similar situation but two totally different viewpoints.

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Indie game just get by  and this one will also just get by or shut down like other sandboxes. Time will tell.

Minecraft just gets by ... I guess.

To the original poster:

I may take your post serious when you stop trying to form arguments with "herp/derp", "EPIC Fail", and "Terribad".

Mine craft is a sandbox MMO now? since when?

I keep looking for the word "MMO" in your OP, yet I can't find it.  Saying what you mean goes a long way to communicating your point which is empty by the way.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Wouldn't CCP be considered both an Independant MMO developer and a Sandbox game? They seem to do pretty well. 

It's not everyone's cup of tea, but the game does have a very dedicated following. It has been on the market for several years and is currently in development of a console tie in. 

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some of the first and more successful MMO's developed by small groups of people and not backed by large corporations or funded by the same? Wasn't UO created by a small team?

Originally posted by CreepProphet

 

[mod edit]

Wouldn't CCP be considered both an Independant MMO developer and a Sandbox game? They seem to do pretty well. 

It's not everyone's cup of tea, but the game does have a very dedicated following. It has been on the market for several years and is currently in development of a console tie in. 

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some of the first and more successful MMO's developed by small groups of people and not backed by large corporations or funded by the same? Wasn't UO created by a small team?

 

So was saying that my post was devoid or empty of any meaning because i didn't specificaly mention that i am talking about sandbox MMOS on forums of Repopulation which is indeed a sandbox MMORPG on a  website called mmorpg.com. I am sorry but i have very low low tolerance levels for posters who try to get all cocky.

Anyways on topic...

In cases like this where you are trying to show success of particular genre it is best not to use an exception like EVE Online. It is one of its kind and not a 100% FFA PVP model either which gives a lot of breating room to different kind of players. So its appeal goes beyond the typical hardcore sandbox player.

How many other MMOS have seen success of EVE? EVE is backed up by a great company which has slowly build up EVE into what it is today.

Now if you can give me few more examples of similar success stories i would say iw as wrong that mostly indie sandbox MMOS do not just get by. I am not trying to put down devs of repopulation but lets look at the reality and long line of indie sandbox MMO releases. Picture is quite clear.

Moreover you are mis understanding my post because i never said indie small companies are not capable of making good games but times have changed now and players expect a lot of quality which sadly only comes with better funding. Days of UO's are gone, the same quality and production values do not work anymore. MMO corwd has become tougher and tougher to please over the years.

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Originally posted by Quizzical

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Originally posted by CreepProphet A million monkeys typing may end up writing Shakespeare, but do you know how much crap they'll produce before they get there?

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That's a silly myth from people who don't understand probability.  A million monkeys typing on a million typewriters for a million years would probably never produce a single correct, meaningful sentence longer than 30 characters.

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