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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » What are Darkfall's Sandbox Qualities?

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79 posts found
  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

12/10/12 11:54:07 AM#61
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

OP, perhaps you should tell us what you think makes for a sandbox mmorpg and then I'll let you know if Darkfall has/had those features.

 

Before you do I'll list a few myself...

 

The game world should be open, non instanced and non zoned (or at least as much as possible). Check.

Player progression should be open and skill based. Check.

The player should be able to follow a variety of playstyle types. Check.

There should be player created meta roles. Check.

The players should be able to impact upon the actual game world, long term. Check.

Emphasis on player politics and territory control. Check.

Non instanced player housing. Check.

Player villages. Check.

Most items in game craftable. Check.

More emphasis on player crafting over looting (outside of resources/mats). Check.

Non centralized AH. Check.

Regional player vendors. Check.

Resource control vital. Check.

Exploration. Check.

All playstyles types on the same game world map. Check.

As little as possible artificial restrictions placed upon player interactions. Check.

 

It's no EVE and it is highly pvp centric, but it's a sandbox mmo (going on Darkfall here given Unholy Wars is not out).

 

IB4 the same old haters.... oh too late.

 

Everything you describe is in Age Of Wushu but Age Of Wushu also has farming, a prison system, a kidnapping system and public execution in the former of beheading for serious law breaker's. You also stay on in the world after you log out as an npc manning you stall or doing chores for your faction.

Feel free to discuss AOW in the AOW forum s--->

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6829

12/10/12 12:32:31 PM#62


Originally posted by Uzik

PvE and crafting fuel PvP and territory control.
 


It does not.

Crafting in DF, as well as any other activity, is meaningless - there is no dependency, no market, no economy.


You can play the game and never interact with anyone ever. This is not possible in EVE, there, everything you do have consequence and dependency.


Darkfall is missing "bigger picture", underlying mechanics or idea that would make the game something bigger than just handful of isolated activities.


To illustrate my point from EVE example - only about 15% of EVE live in lawless space, space that would represent what DF is. So you can say DF is missing 85% of content to actually be considered a sandbox.

  User Deleted
12/10/12 12:58:26 PM#63
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Uzik

 


 


 

It does not.

Crafting in DF, as well as any other activity, is meaningless - there is no dependency, no market, no economy.


You can play the game and never interact with anyone ever. This is not possible in EVE, there, everything you do have consequence and dependency.


Darkfall is missing "bigger picture", underlying mechanics or idea that would make the game something bigger than just handful of isolated activities.


To illustrate my point from EVE example - only about 15% of EVE live in lawless space, space that would represent what DF is. So you can say DF is missing 85% of content to actually be considered a sandbox.

Crafting isn't "meaningless".

PVE does impact upon the game.

There is a market/economy.

The last point you make in regards to lawless space is just completely and utterly insane even by your standards. "EVE is only 15% lawless, DarKfall is all lawless so Darkfall is missing 85% content". Welp that's some A grade nonsense gibberish right there.

  Uzik

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 276

12/10/12 1:14:38 PM#64
Originally posted by Gdemami

It does not.

Crafting in DF, as well as any other activity, is meaningless - there is no dependency, no market, no economy.


You can play the game and never interact with anyone ever. This is not possible in EVE, there, everything you do have consequence and dependency.


Darkfall is missing "bigger picture", underlying mechanics or idea that would make the game something bigger than just handful of isolated activities.


To illustrate my point from EVE example - only about 15% of EVE live in lawless space, space that would represent what DF is. So you can say DF is missing 85% of content to actually be considered a sandbox.

 

[mod edit]

1) Most "space" in EVE is empty with the exception of some randomly generated asteroids and rats.  It is the SINGLE most boring "environment" of any MMO.

2) There is a HUGE interdependency, marketplace, AND economy.  You've probably never played DF so you never saw things like PS price fluctuate after the drop rate was changed, inflation after the XP increases, and the Bspike demand jump after VCPs were made better and Bspike hopping became popular.  Everything is connected in DF.

3) In EVE you interact more with spreadsheets and market UI's than other players.  In DF 1.0 crafters had close personal relationships with suppliers and the clans they sold to.  Furthermore, many enchanting mats were only available from a few locations so you pretty much needed to trade with the people who had easy access to them to get those mats.  Additionally, the capacity for trade ganking meant that reputation was extremely important.

[mod edit]

(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin

  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2376

12/10/12 1:15:26 PM#65
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Uzik

 


 


 

It does not.

Crafting in DF, as well as any other activity, is meaningless - there is no dependency, no market, no economy.


You can play the game and never interact with anyone ever. This is not possible in EVE, there, everything you do have consequence and dependency.


Darkfall is missing "bigger picture", underlying mechanics or idea that would make the game something bigger than just handful of isolated activities.


To illustrate my point from EVE example - only about 15% of EVE live in lawless space, space that would represent what DF is. So you can say DF is missing 85% of content to actually be considered a sandbox.

Crafting isn't "meaningless".

PVE does impact upon the game.

There is a market/economy.

The last point you make in regards to lawless space is just completely and utterly insane even by your standards. "EVE is only 15% lawless, DarKfall is all lawless so Darkfall is missing 85% content". Welp that's some A grade nonsense gibberish right there.

With restricted crafting, local banking and localized resources the benefits to the market/economy would be exponentially better than Darkfalls current implementation.  Most of Darkfalls current market is based on the selling and buying of mats only.  Not much of a market for the end product because everyone is self sufficient or supplied by guild crafters.

  User Deleted
12/10/12 1:21:21 PM#66
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Uzik

 


 


 

With restricted crafting, local banking and localized resources the benefits to the market/economy would be exponentially better than Darkfalls current implementation.  Most of Darkfalls current market is based on the selling and buying of mats only.  Not much of a market for the end product because everyone is self sufficient or supplied by guild crafters.

I agree completely. The economic system could be vastly improved upon and in it's current incarnation it is not a patch on the system seen in EVE.

 

That though is a long way from "hurr meaningless" which certain posters come out with. The trouble some have is that in the rush to bash a system/game, they spout such OTT bullshit that it completely and utterly destroys any credibility their premise potentially might have had.

  Zushakon

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 120

12/10/12 1:37:05 PM#67
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by Zushakon
Originally posted by Rimmersman

 

Everything you describe is in Age Of Wushu but Age Of Wushu also has farming, a prison system, a kidnapping system and public execution in the former of beheading for serious law breaker's. You also stay on in the world after you log out as an npc manning you stall or doing chores for your faction.

 

It also has tab-targeting and boring, non-immersive combat compared to DF. Combat in Darkfall is more reliant on the skill of the actual player than any other MMORPG, that is a huge plus.

 

I mean sure AoW sounds interesting enough, it's not your typical themepark, but it's no darkfall.

 

Nope the combat is not your typical mmo tab targetting combat, the combat is very immersive.

 

Why would you lie to me? :(  All I have to do is go on youtube and look at PvP vids, it is stale as fuck and tab-targeting.. even comparing it to DF-combat is a joke.

Darkfall Unholy Wars:
Zushakon Odi

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6829

12/10/12 6:34:07 PM#68


Originally posted by Uzik

2) There is a HUGE interdependency, marketplace, AND economy.  You've probably never played DF so you never saw things like PS price fluctuate after the drop rate was changed, inflation after the XP increases, and the Bspike demand jump after VCPs were made better and Bspike hopping became popular.  Everything is connected in DF.

Source? Back-up?

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

12/10/12 9:15:11 PM#69
Originally posted by Uzik

2) There is a HUGE interdependency, marketplace, AND economy.  You've probably never played DF so you never saw things like PS price fluctuate after the drop rate was changed, inflation after the XP increases, and the Bspike demand jump after VCPs were made better and Bspike hopping became popular.  Everything is connected in DF.

 

 These spikes and jumps are not indication of a good economy. That would be like saying that WoW has a good economy because prices jump after expansions on matts and new recipies or that proffesion X buys potion Y because of the PvP community.

 I will try DF UW, but even on the official dark fall forums there is some serious trepidation about the crafting system as currently detailed. The fact that anyone can master every crafting tier completely will probably mean that it will become highely matt driven and not crafter driven. Yes at the start most people are going to focus on more usefull abilities but eventually people will get bored and level up the crafting to the point where the amount of maxxed out crafters will exceed demand.

 If you look at DF:UW as what it is, a fantasy pvp game with some sandbox elements thrown in...that is not such a bad thing. If you are trying to sell it as a complex sandbox game with multiple ways to approach the game (crafting,trading,pve,pvp) well yea it is probably not that. It has a lot of new PvP features over the older DF...the new village resource system all the new mechanics but I have yet to see anything really improved on the non PvP side of things...which is fine because its a PvP centered game.

  User Deleted
12/11/12 3:09:32 AM#70
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Uzik

2) There is a HUGE interdependency, marketplace, AND economy.  You've probably never played DF so you never saw things like PS price fluctuate after the drop rate was changed, inflation after the XP increases, and the Bspike demand jump after VCPs were made better and Bspike hopping became popular.  Everything is connected in DF.


 

Source? Back-up?

Before demanding them from others, perhaps you should provide some of your own first.

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

12/11/12 3:32:27 AM#71

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

This is a real sandbox. A similar chart of Darkfall would have approximately 10 boxes and even that would be stretcthing it.

 

  User Deleted
12/11/12 4:14:22 AM#72
Originally posted by tom_gore

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

This is a real sandbox. A similar chart of Darkfall would have approximately 10 boxes and even that would be stretcthing it.

 

There is not doubt EVE is a great deal more complex. and has more depth. In fact it is simply a "better" sandbox. I think regardless of personal preference that should be clear to anyone with any knowledge of the games.

 

But when you get boxes for "trolling", "chatting" and different boxes for "solo pvp" and "group pvp", then it is fair to say that you could make a similar style chart for Darkfall with a hell of a lot more than 10 boxes on it.

 

Moreover if you look at the "Player Driven" drop down (something cited as vital for a sandbox mmo), well pretty much all (if not all) of that can be done in Darkfall.

  DarthRaiden

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4540

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

12/11/12 5:18:52 AM#73

Read this up :              - and die a litle inside to how AV ruined the vision-

Thats supposed to be Darkfall and not the travesty of today

 

Darkfall Key Features
  • The biggest online game world ever created, with four huge continents to explore, and hundreds of small islands to build your secret clan headquarters on. All filled with dangerous monsters to fight, and huge exciting dungeons
  • The best quest engine ever seen in a game, with literally millions of interesting and rewarding auto-generated quests to solve
  • The most realistic online game world ever created, with trees and grass swaying in the wind and dynamical clouds, generated based on the weather in the area, real world physics, deformable terrain, dynamic lighting and shadows, and smooth night/day cycles
  • Advance your player character any way you want, with more than 1000 skills and spells to learn and master
  • Superb 3D graphics, detailed models, smooth life-like animations and amazingly sharp textures
  • The first online roleplaying game to support actual ownership of resources and areas, making conquest and warfare an integrated part of the game
  • Exciting action-packed combat situations, with actual player skill influencing the outcome of the combat
  • The most advanced Clan administration and communications tools ever seen in an online game
  • Endless career opportunities. Be a humble fisherman, a legendary smith, a friendly baker, a trusted hunter, a superb tailor, a mercenary hiring your sword arm to the highest bidder, a magician teaching other players powerful spells of magic, an explorer telling tales of dungeons explored and exotic islands visited, or a fearless clanleader, leading your clan to countless victories over your enemies
 

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

12/11/12 5:28:53 AM#74
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by tom_gore

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

This is a real sandbox. A similar chart of Darkfall would have approximately 10 boxes and even that would be stretcthing it.

 

There is not doubt EVE is a great deal more complex. and has more depth. In fact it is simply a "better" sandbox. I think regardless of personal preference that should be clear to anyone with any knowledge of the games.

 

But when you get boxes for "trolling", "chatting" and different boxes for "solo pvp" and "group pvp", then it is fair to say that you could make a similar style chart for Darkfall with a hell of a lot more than 10 boxes on it.

 

Moreover if you look at the "Player Driven" drop down (something cited as vital for a sandbox mmo), well pretty much all (if not all) of that can be done in Darkfall.

Agreed. If you look at just null sector activities in EVE (which, admittedly, a lot of EVE players consider to be the only part of EVE) then yes, Darkfall is covering a lot of similar stuff.

Still, EVE's success is largerly due to the large amount of non-PvP content in it, which can be done (mostly) safe from griefers and gankers. As long as Darkfall does not have "safe" zones and practically forces PvP down everyone's throat, it will always remain a niche game for a small crowd.

I don't expect their philosophy to change and I'll probably check out UW when the dust settles and if it seems to work. I just don't expect I can find enough casual stuff to do in the game, like I do in EVE.

 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6829

12/11/12 5:32:26 AM#75


Originally posted by DarthRaiden
Read this up :              - and die a litle inside to how AV ruined the vision-

Thats supposed to be Darkfall and not the travesty of today   Darkfall Key Features

  • The biggest online game world ever created, with four huge continents to explore, and hundreds of small islands to build your secret clan headquarters on. All filled with dangerous monsters to fight, and huge exciting dungeons
  • The best quest engine ever seen in a game, with literally millions of interesting and rewarding auto-generated quests to solve
  • The most realistic online game world ever created, with trees and grass swaying in the wind and dynamical clouds, generated based on the weather in the area, real world physics, deformable terrain, dynamic lighting and shadows, and smooth night/day cycles
  • Advance your player character any way you want, with more than 1000 skills and spells to learn and master
  • Superb 3D graphics, detailed models, smooth life-like animations and amazingly sharp textures The first online roleplaying game to support actual ownership of resources and areas, making conquest and warfare an integrated part of the game Exciting action-packed combat situations, with actual player skill influencing the outcome of the combat The most advanced Clan administration and communications tools ever seen in an online game Endless career opportunities. Be a humble fisherman, a legendary smith, a friendly baker, a trusted hunter, a superb tailor, a mercenary hiring your sword arm to the highest bidder, a magician teaching other players powerful spells of magic, an explorer telling tales of dungeons explored and exotic islands visited, or a fearless clanleader, leading your clan to countless victories over your enemies
 

"smooth life-like animations" and "most advanced clan administration and communication tools" needs underlining too :)


Really nice find :)

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

12/11/12 5:41:54 AM#76
Originally posted by Zushakon
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by Zushakon
Originally posted by Rimmersman

 

Everything you describe is in Age Of Wushu but Age Of Wushu also has farming, a prison system, a kidnapping system and public execution in the former of beheading for serious law breaker's. You also stay on in the world after you log out as an npc manning you stall or doing chores for your faction.

 

It also has tab-targeting and boring, non-immersive combat compared to DF. Combat in Darkfall is more reliant on the skill of the actual player than any other MMORPG, that is a huge plus.

 

I mean sure AoW sounds interesting enough, it's not your typical themepark, but it's no darkfall.

 

Nope the combat is not your typical mmo tab targetting combat, the combat is very immersive.

 

Why would you lie to me? :(  All I have to do is go on youtube and look at PvP vids, it is stale as fuck and tab-targeting.. even comparing it to DF-combat is a joke.

 

Read what i said, it's not you typical tab targetting set up, I didn't say it wasn't tab targettin . You have active blocking and parrying and on the fly weapons swap. Now, I dont need to go to YouTube because I have played the game in beta. And on top of that tab targetting or not does not determine whether a game is sandbox, Age Of Wushuis as much sandbox as Darkfall is, if anything some of its features would work well in Darkfall.

  DarthRaiden

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4540

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

12/11/12 6:16:09 AM#77
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by DarthRaiden
Read this up :              - and die a litle inside to how AV ruined the vision-

 

Thats supposed to be Darkfall and not the travesty of today   Darkfall Key Features

  • The biggest online game world ever created, with four huge continents to explore, and hundreds of small islands to build your secret clan headquarters on. All filled with dangerous monsters to fight, and huge exciting dungeons
  • The best quest engine ever seen in a game, with literally millions of interesting and rewarding auto-generated quests to solve
  • The most realistic online game world ever created, with trees and grass swaying in the wind and dynamical clouds, generated based on the weather in the area, real world physics, deformable terrain, dynamic lighting and shadows, and smooth night/day cycles
  • Advance your player character any way you want, with more than 1000 skills and spells to learn and master
  • Superb 3D graphics, detailed models, smooth life-like animations and amazingly sharp textures The first online roleplaying game to support actual ownership of resources and areas, making conquest and warfare an integrated part of the game Exciting action-packed combat situations, with actual player skill influencing the outcome of the combat The most advanced Clan administration and communications tools ever seen in an online game Endless career opportunities. Be a humble fisherman, a legendary smith, a friendly baker, a trusted hunter, a superb tailor, a mercenary hiring your sword arm to the highest bidder, a magician teaching other players powerful spells of magic, an explorer telling tales of dungeons explored and exotic islands visited, or a fearless clanleader, leading your clan to countless victories over your enemies
 

 

"smooth life-like animations" and "most advanced clan administration and communication tools" needs underlining too :)


Really nice find :)

Wanted to put the emphasis on the sandbox aspect  and to counter all the FPS kidies who deny the fact that DF was supposed to be a real sandbox game and not a big combat arena and PvP was just a part of it, not the main activity.

 

ah and also to proove that i am not that one doing the flip flop as i stay true to the goals of  DF , others are those who betrayed and abandoned the vision and the goals.

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  Uzik

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 276

12/11/12 9:06:22 AM#78
Someone needs to add a box to that EVE chart that says "Take a nap while you autopilot through PvP and PvE", and "Stare at a spreadsheet for an hour".

(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin

  Crucial

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 27

12/11/12 9:16:13 AM#79
Darkfall isn't a sandbox, Darkfall isn't theme-park, Darkfall isn't a RTS, Darkfall isn't a FPS, Darkfall is Darkfall, love or leave, haters gonna hate.
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