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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: About the Teardown Mentality

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77 posts found

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13630

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

12/07/12 3:49:17 PM#21
Originally posted by apocoluster
   I just assume anyone anyone who posts to online forums are pretty much admitting they are idiots.  Ill let the irony hang there for a second >>>>>

I resemble that remark!

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein

  User Deleted
12/07/12 3:54:18 PM#22

OP, I think you are trying to over rationalize forum behavior from a slimly sociological perspective to develop an excuse for why things are the way they are that fits your preconceived notions of why people post emotionally on various subjects. In truth, it could be as simple a fact as acknowledging that gaming (playing) is an inherently childish activity for emotional release or satisfaction prone to breed childish behavior in both its best and worse sense. As such a site for the discussion of game opinion can only follow suit.


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2034

12/07/12 3:57:06 PM#23

Let's face it, we're bored.  Gamers are bored, people are bored.  People/gamers go to work every day and most work crap ass boring damn stupid jobs that pay crap ass wages and you can bet your crap ass that our bosses don't ask for our opinions on anything, nor do they care.


We come home and we don't have the money to go do anything, but holy crap, here is an MMO for $60 and maybe $15 a month (and lately the $15 is optional).  So we play.  But guess what?  It gets boring.  Even MMOs like The Secret World that very much aspire to entertain the intelligent player has its boring side (killing mobs that take forever to die, for example) and even the most mentally stimulating game gets boring after awhile.


Then there are the forums.  Sometimes I think they attract me more to see if something I say will spark off an echo chamber than for any other reason.  They're a challenging form of PvP where we skate the edges of a perma-ban and at the same time rile up the masses.


Even though I mean what I say and pride myself on posting facts on boards (with a touch of wild speculation thrown in now and then just to keep it interesting) I'm still somewhat of a troll.  Everyone who posts on boards more than every rare now and then is a troll at heart, and we all know we are.  Yes, we want the game to get better, we want things to improve, and we want to express our dissatisfaction, but in the end, we also want to display our cleverness and wait with baited breath to see if people actually follow our lead.  It's scary how often people do.  It's bad when your forums become more interesting and challenging than your MMO, okay, devs?  Really, really bad.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2034

12/07/12 4:02:05 PM#24
Oh, and PS, Devil's Advocate guy:  I will never hate you because I enjoy your articles too much.  You are one of the most honest game journalists I have had the pleasure of reading (as evidenced by your frank discussion of perks such as free subscription time).  Keep up the good work!

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein


Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/22/12
Posts: 372

12/07/12 4:02:21 PM#25
As a kid I learned that certain people feel better when making others feel like shit. I always just thought it was an extension of that. Sort of spread the misery type deal. Not very complicated.

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/07/12 5:52:10 PM#26

I'm getting mad if a game has blatantly obvious game design flaws and smells lazy all over the place, combined with a plethora of bugs and an added bonus of broken promises.

At this point I don't give a **** if there are "some positive aspects".

SWTOR was such a game at least at the last version I played (1.3).

Still can't believe that SWG was sacrificed for... this.

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World

The Return of ELITE !


Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/05/09
Posts: 538

12/07/12 6:00:48 PM#27

Lol , it's not a question of if a game is to my liking or not.   It's the question of what this titles has to offer me over my current title?   Why would I leave my achievements from one MMORPG to restart from scratch on another MMORPG that looks pretty much like it but with a few differences in terms of graphics?      We gamers bash a MMO title not because we like to bash , but because we want to know exactly what the new title has to offer me that will make want to start from scratch and have a good time?   I mean GW2 , people are reaching level cap inside of 3 weeks without even trying , so why would I want to play GW2? PlanetSide2 are missing key components from PS1 , which is really stupid.   SWtor ... don't even get me started on TOR...


   So yeah , remove the hype meter off this site and I swear you'll have a lot less ragers posting.  When I see dark fall being extremely over hyped at 8.58 / 10 , don't ask yourselves why you see ragers.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3224

Veni, Vidi, Converti

12/07/12 6:08:37 PM#28
Originally posted by Azuri21
There can only be one....


Great article. I think Pirhanhas is another good analogy: Once one smells blood and does that "feeding frenzy" behavior it sets off the rest! :D


Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 7205

12/07/12 6:11:03 PM#29

Nothing to do with any of that.  As long as developers continue to put crap games out there they will get tons of criticism and deservedly so.  You should stop trying to psychoanalyze something with silly rejoinders and look at the obvious fact that none these games lately have been very good.

So it is rather hard to argue for any kind of tear down mentality when there is a lot to criticize about these games.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2269

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

12/07/12 8:17:52 PM#30
Originally posted by Ozmodan

Nothing to do with any of that.  As long as developers continue to put crap games out there they will get tons of criticism and deservedly so.  You should stop trying to psychoanalyze something with silly rejoinders and look at the obvious fact that none these games lately have been very good.

So it is rather hard to argue for any kind of tear down mentality when there is a lot to criticize about these games.

You did a great job exemplifying one of his points:


The Customer Satisfaction Premise

Here's something I picked up from Keen at Keen and Graev's Gaming Blog: the idea of dissatisfaction being caused by previous exposure. Basically, the idea as it relates to the tearing down premise is that we set ourselves up to hate things based on our expectations, as determined by past experiences. As Keen explains,

"If a developer aims for 100% enjoyment or innovation, then players will come to expect that level of enjoyment and innovation.  That means next time you’re going to have to meet that same level of enjoyment and innovation or else you will fail to meet expectations, and a high level of disconfirmation will result and players will be unhappy."



That's exactly what he was talking about.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

12/07/12 8:30:50 PM#31

Dear DAG (Devil's Advocate Guy),

I think you missed a very important point -- the notion of cognitive dissonance.  Basically, when people are holding conflicting ideas, beliefs, or emotions, one of the atural reactions is to try to reduce or eliminate that dissonance while maintaining their belief structure.  A typical example is buyer's remorse when purchasing a new car and seeking out reasons to justify why that purcharse was worthwhile.

In the context of this column, ripping another game or criticizing praise for another game can also be a defense mechanism to reinforce the belief that what you've chosen is much better and worthwhile.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2269

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

12/07/12 8:31:43 PM#32

So here's one I've noticed which can destroy a thread in a hurry.

Often you see, quick, short, unsubstantiated, biting remarks like often in response to long posts which you can tell someone took time on:

"Nah, it sux." 

"Are you delusional?"

"Fact: This game blows"

Or some such thing.

Some have taken the form of meme's like 'you mad bro' or 'tl;dr'.


Now, while it may seem I'm resoundingly against these responses as the problem, it is deeper than that imo.

Because if I share the opinion and the remark is well placed; it is funny. I laugh. It feels spot on. And there will be others who share the opinion, and they'll laugh and comment too, like with a +1 or a /thread or ^this. These are the people who get 'the joke'.

But here's the rub, and you all know it:

When you disagree with the snide remark, you get peeved. Feel dismissed. It is naturally frustrating when you have invested in some idea and it is blown off dismissively with a 'tl;dr'.

And there will be others that share this sentiment. Responding with 'you have no proof'; you don't understand fact from opinion. there is often identifying the person as a troll, hater, etc.

Anyway; I think it is one of the problems threads become destructive. One man's joke is another man's soul. Or something.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

12/07/12 8:41:11 PM#33
Originally posted by Azuri21
There can only be one....

Eloquently put, whether intended to or not.

There are some people out there that see the world as a zero-sum/binary situation -- you simply have to pick one and there's no conceivable way that two things can be good or good in their own ways. Let's take the superhero mmo genre - DC Universe Online, Champions Online and, until last week, City of Heroes.  There were some posters that swore up and down, pledging allegiance to one of them, crowning it the best.  The reality is, other than the superhero skin, they really do play quite differently with their own merits and, in my humble opinion, didn't necessarily compete directly against each other.  Even more important is that for many of us, we have enough disposable income to enjoy more than one of them.  Yet, some people simply can't tolerate that....


Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/12
Posts: 74

12/07/12 8:56:30 PM#34
Opinions on anything in forums are fine and criticisms if constructive and explained should be accepted. Differing opinions exist. The problem comes when someone feels they are not winning the discussion of opinion and begins replacing fact or on topic information with personal attacks or assumptions of who this person with the view contrary to theirs actually is. Then if that response goes unchecked the dog-pile begins thus fanbois pile on someone declaring him a subhuman hater and haters pile on someone making him out to be a butt smooching fanboi.  When the post gets personal even to the point of "you pulled your facts out of your hat' - the train has left the tracks and the teardown is on.

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 675

12/07/12 8:59:33 PM#35

There will never be a game that doesn't have haters.  I find it funny people say, make a good game and we won't troll them.  Trolls don't troll because a game is bad.

The question isn't why do some people point out the flaws of a game. Its why do people start threads bashing a game they don't even play. "Why this game sux so bad?".  Why make hate threads that have no meaningful content or are misleading.

As much as fanboys ignore what's bad about their love, haters are why same way (ignoring the good).  If someone is playing and enjoying a game why is it your mission to to tear it down?  If you are leaving a game why announce it?  Why be such a Mary Sue?

Its like going into a restaurant (using the above example) and ordering something from the menu, but the dish isn't for you. Maybe the picture or description appealed to you but the food failed to live up to expectations.

So you get up to go, maybe not leaving a tip, but as you reach the door you turn around and scream to the whole restaurant, "My meal sucked. This place is the worst." Then you go outside and make a sign and spend you off hours standing outside the door ranting and  shouting "The place is filled with rats."


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2704

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

12/07/12 9:04:04 PM#36
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

OP, I think you are trying to over rationalize forum behavior from a slimly sociological perspective to develop an excuse for why things are the way they are that fits your preconceived notions of why people post emotionally on various subjects. In truth, it could be as simple a fact as acknowledging that gaming (playing) is an inherently childish activity for emotional release or satisfaction prone to breed childish behavior in both its best and worse sense. As such a site for the discussion of game opinion can only follow suit.

You are way off base if you think that for a second. A while ago I was doing research while creating a website for my brother-in-law who is a dentist. I happened upon a forum for premed students while looking up terms and gathering information about them. One hot topic of dicussion was why some premed students feel it necessary to wear their lab coats or scrubs around campus to stroke their egos. The whole topic turned into a flame war about who's better than who and it was far from mature.


All I can say is you'd be surprise at the amount of "childish" behavior that goes on even if gaming isn't involved in forums. Maybe you should think about that next time you feel money, intelligence or power breeds mature rational thinking. We were all children at one point and none of us are perfect at keeping that child in us from resurfacing every now and then, myself included. You can be a gamer, doctor or judge it doesn't matter. No one is immune to doing and saying foolish things.

"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."


Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 20138

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

12/07/12 9:04:31 PM#37
If all of you would just agree that my opinions on gaming are the only true and correct ones to have then all the hate would stop. Till then....

In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
"I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3618

12/08/12 12:03:38 AM#38

There's two kinds of negativity around here.  One is negativity against games.  It may be constructive, it may be venting, it may be unflattering comparisions. 


The other kind of negativity is toward other gamers. 


At least the negativity towards games is more on point.  And what some people call negativity I call insight. 


Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1168

12/08/12 12:06:24 AM#39

I don't mind a negative review as long as there's an explanation behind it.  Just tell us why you dislike it and it's all good.  "This game sux" is just lame and lazy.


Good article, and thanks for looking at motivations, OP!


Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 568

Ahh devil ether.

12/08/12 12:20:07 AM#40
Originally posted by gaeanprayer

I never really saw this until I stepped away from this site for a while, been too busy enjoying GW2 and like, participating in life n' stuff. I popped in the other day and was almost knocked over by how polar opposite the people on this site are to every other site out there. It's pretty poisonous in here, probably about time to be even more heavy-handed on the penalties and bans.


In any case, I don't think this is about entitlement nor do I think this is about the games themselves. I think this boils down to psychology; human beings are by nature evil, vile, gross and without redemption. You like to think you are naturally good and occasionally do bad things, but it's the opposite. Then you get into an online environment where anonymity let's you be the thing you truly are behind closed doors, mob mentality kicks in, and you have what this article claims, the "teardown generation". In other words, people do it for no other reason than that they can, because people are no better than animals and more often than not, are far worse.


The end.

Wow.  Someone has lost their faith in humanity.  I'm curious if you think it applies to you?

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