Since you can buy game time with ingame currency, I've heard that its pretty straightforward to farm enough PLEX to pay for your sub fee in EVE - so much so that people can maintain multiple alts to make the game easier and a lot of people bot. What proportion of players do you estimate actually pay a sub fee, or is EVE more F2P than P2P?

I've always wondered about this. I've been reading some EVE blogs to see whether I want to get into the game and they talk a lot about PLEX, making billions in ISK each month, the economy, botting (and CCP cracking down on bots), running a lot of alts and mining and hauling. Is the point of the game to grind PLEX to pay for your sub so that you can grind more PLEX ad inifnitum?

Originally posted by banzai014

Since you can buy game time with ingame currency, I've heard that its pretty straightforward to farm enough PLEX to pay for your sub fee in EVE - so much so that people can maintain multiple alts to make the game easier and a lot of people bot. What proportion of players do you estimate actually pay a sub fee, or is EVE more F2P than P2P?

I've always wondered about this. I've been reading some EVE blogs to see whether I want to get into the game and they talk a lot about PLEX, making billions in ISK each month, the economy, botting (and CCP cracking down on bots), running a lot of alts and mining and hauling. Is the point of the game to grind PLEX to pay for your sub so that you can grind more PLEX ad inifnitum?

Eve is NOT f2p. Not by any interpretation. Each second of game time have been paid for. Sure there is an exchange system where this PAYED gametime can be traded, but that is not equal to free to play.

For 50% to "play for free" the other 50% whould have to buy gametime for them to aquire ingame. In the end its all the same for CCP as they earn money on each single player.

I forsee " High Winds and Heavy Seas " coming for this thread. F2P or PVE servers will upset the " Hive "

My last forray into EvE i payed my subs with plex for about 6 months but it does mean you have to be able to farm the cash necessary to buy the plex and then make your way to pick it up without getting caught in one of the MANY PLEX traps or "cons".

PLEX availability was always down to the state of the game at the time, often the prices rocketed because corps were stockpiling and price fixing, other times it was so scarce you'd be competing with other players to get hold of one.

PLEX is player bought with real $ and player sold for ISK.

Its not really hard to grasp.

You earn ISK (ingame currency) while playing, scamming, stealing peoples pos stuff lol's :P , or by anyother means to get the ISK.. Once amounted enough, you can then BUY a PLEX card through the game via the market ( like Auction house in other games, not a 'market' per se as people these days tend to think ok )

That then can be redeemed for 30 days game time via a simple right click on the plex card and option choice to do so.

You can also buy Plex direct from ccp with real money and convert it back to isk by selling it on the 'AH'/Market

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Originally posted by banzai014

Oh from what I read I thought PLEX was like gems in GW2 - I didn't know somebody actually had to have spent cash to get it to market.

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Don't GW2 gems come from real currency purchase only?

Originally posted by banzai014
Oh from what I read I thought PLEX was like gems in GW2 - I didn't know somebody actually had to have spent cash to get it to market.

Where do you think gems come from? ;)

The point of the game is to have fun.

PLEX allows you to exchange in game currency, ISK, for the gametime item (PLEX) that someone else purchased with real money.  The price of a PLEX item is determined by players.

You can pay for your gametime using ISK to gain PLEX from players who bought them with real money, or just subscribe with a credit card etc.

On a side note, I think EVE actually being free to play would be a F'ing horrible idea.  Then anyone can have skills training all the time with no money commitment.  Alts abound, spying is easier, scouting markets in different regions is trivial... it would be awful.

Originally posted by banzai014
Oh from what I read I thought PLEX was like gems in GW2 - I didn't know somebody actually had to have spent cash to get it to market. I'm not sure then why gaming media keep reporting ISK losses as real-life PLEX $ losses.

Because there is a very clear exchange factor for PLEX, currently I believe they are trading in the neighborhood of 600M ISK for 1 PLEX. 

A PLEX sells for roughly 19.95 US on the EVE site, (discounts for buying in quantity) so its easy to make a quick conversion and translate someone's 10B ISK loss in to an equivalent value in US Dollars.  (16.67 PLEX or roughly 332.00 US)

If I made any math errors I'm sure someone else can correct me, busy at work atm

Originally posted by banzai014
Oh from what I read I thought PLEX was like gems in GW2 - I didn't know somebody actually had to have spent cash to get it to market. I'm not sure then why gaming media keep reporting ISK losses as real-life PLEX $ losses.

Don't feel bad - plenty of EVE players make this mistake as well.

Originally posted by hfztt

 

Eve is NOT f2p. Not by any interpretation. Each second of game time have been paid for. Sure there is an exchange system where this PAYED gametime can be traded, but that is not equal to free to play.

For 50% to "play for free" the other 50% whould have to buy gametime for them to aquire ingame. In the end its all the same for CCP as they earn money on each single player.

You're right....I paid fora few years after release, got my hand on some t2 bpos and a few titan bpos....

That earns me my plexes + extra.

wait a minute......I play for free.

Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by hfztt

 

Eve is NOT f2p. Not by any interpretation. Each second of game time have been paid for. Sure there is an exchange system where this PAYED gametime can be traded, but that is not equal to free to play.

For 50% to "play for free" the other 50% whould have to buy gametime for them to aquire ingame. In the end its all the same for CCP as they earn money on each single player.

You're right....I paid fora few years after release, got my hand on some t2 bpos and a few titan bpos....

 

That earns me my plexes + extra.

 

wait a minute......I play for free.

 

Following that logic any game your mom pays for is also F2P. Your not F2P, its just that someone else paid for you.

     I wish there was a F2P option for people like me..  I'm just about to finish up my 14 trial time and the game played ok, BUT, I just don't see myself spending that much casual time in it to justify the monthly sub..  I might actually stay around and tinker on the game if I could just buy and "unlock" from time to time.. Oh well.. 

     In any case, the game was fun as I said for what limited access I had..  I personally like B2P methods if done right..

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Originally posted by banzai014
Since you can buy game time with ingame currency, I've heard that its pretty straightforward to farm enough PLEX to pay for your sub fee in EVE - so much so that people can maintain multiple alts to make the game easier and a lot of people bot. What proportion of players do you estimate actually pay a sub fee, or is EVE more F2P than P2P?

I've always wondered about this. I've been reading some EVE blogs to see whether I want to get into the game and they talk a lot about PLEX, making billions in ISK each month, the economy, botting (and CCP cracking down on bots), running a lot of alts and mining and hauling. Is the point of the game to grind PLEX to pay for your sub so that you can grind more PLEX ad inifnitum?

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Gametime has to be payed for by some one.

keep in mind that Plex does 2 things: it lest mostly vets play for free, while letting rich kids buy Isk.

for those that have been in the game for years and dont know what to do with all the Isk they have they get to play for free. for those that would rather spend some rl $ for Isk instead of farming all day can also do so.

2 birds with one stone.

It will take you a good year or more to have enough skills to make enough Isk to pay for your sub especially if you stay in the safety of high sec (the big money is in low sec).

to give you an idea after about 4 months of sub time the best money i could make solo was mining in .05 sec with a Retriver. i calculated that if i mined 12 hours a day i would pay my subscription in 24 days of mining....that is IF i never got ganked and had never had to replace my mining ship (unlikely), AND if mining prices wouldn't fluctuate much, AND if Plex prices didn't fluctuate. if i mined 10 hours a day that would take me 29 days, exactly one month of continuous mining. Keep in mind that this is ONLY to pay for my sub, so no losing ships of buying skill books, or anything else.

now you understand why people love alts in Eve. have your miner mining while you gank with your fighter.

of course as you gain more skills this gets a little easier but in the end to make the big money you have to go into low sec, but then you also start incurring heavy losses.

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Originally posted by Jakdstripper
It will take you a good year or more to have enough skills to make enough Isk to pay for your sub especially if you stay in the safety of high sec (the big money is in low sec).

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After 4 month you'll have the skills to do LvL 4 missions with a Drake or Raven in semi-AFK-mode.
With that skillset you can make some 10-20 million ISK per hour, depending on the missions you get. So to afford a 60 day GTC (currently selling for 1.2 billion ISK) you need to grind missions for some +/-80 hours. To break it down even more, you only need to fly two LvL 4 missions per day to pay for your GTC with ISK.

But on the topic.

A PLEX is nothing else then a GTC converted into an ingame item. So even if you might see yourself playing for "free" by spending ISK for your PLEX, this PLEX had to be bought by another player with real money after conversion.

CCP isn't giving any playtime away for free, so EvE is not a F2P-title at all. The only thing they do is to not have every single player pay for their playtime on their own, but the community as a whole.

It's a brilliant model actually and I would wish that other developers would go for such a model aswell.

Originally posted by Yalexy

With that skillset you can make some 10-20 million ISK per hour, depending on the missions you get. So to afford a 60 day GTC (currently selling for 1.2 billion ISK)

holly crap! they were just arround 550 mil like at the beginning of this year.....

Originally posted by Boardwalker
I hope EVE never goes F2P. Having a sub is a great way to keep the freeloaders out, while ensuring consistent updates and free expansions from CCP.

      How is F2P freeloading?   I'm curious how and why you see it that way..  Have you heard of the saying "something is better then nothing"?  There is alot of truth in that..  There are many players such as myself that only play casually on weekends.. Paying for a sub is just careless and crazy..  I'm an advid golfer when weather permits.. Sure I would LOVE a subscription based golf course that allows me to golf all I want, whenever I want.. But should everyone, even the guy that golfs once a month pay the same monthly golf sub.?  Oh hell no..

     When a game has ONLY a subscrption option, if forces people to go  "ALL IN" or fold.. Just like poker..  If a B2P cash shop is set up properly, then both subs and pay as you go customers can co-exist..  As I said in my post, I would have no problem buying unlockables as I play..  Getting $50 out of me per year is better then nothing, which is what they are getting now from me with a manditory sub..