5 things here

-WoW style questing (short quests with big ! or ? over quest giver)

- INSTANCES my biggest thing gripe of modern day MMOs MMORPG are spose to bring the comunity together while do we teasr it appart with instances that make the game feel like a lobby co up game. what makes thing worst is that u must do these to get the best gear.

- Getting new gear every 5 minutes to replace the piece you just got from the previous quest, gear is just to abundant in todays games you dont hold onto a piece for more then a day (or a single level) without it getting replaced espiecly when leveling

-Soulbound items.

-A lack of challenge

That making everything easy and without work makes a game fun. 

It doesn't, it means anything you 'earn' feels that much more lack luster and leaves you craving for more. I remember when it was so exciting to progress and beat a dungeon or raid you have been working on for some time. Now it doesn't feel like any big accomplishment, specially when it will be trivialized quickly and just skipped over in a few weeks. Leveling feels like a grind as hitting the max level just isn't very rewarding unless your doing it 'first'. It use to be just about reaching some goal, not having to be the first to make it feel rewarding.

Originally posted by dreamsofwar
Auction houses. I'd much rather see Western MMO's adopt a concept that many Asian MMO's have used, player stalls. It adds to the social aspect of the game, allows for bartering, and it just adds more life and atmosphere to cities, and other parts of the world. Imagine seeing a few player stalls outside of raid entrances, its little things like that I think would make games more immersive.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by loulaki

well to add which bothers me

 

1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by dreamsofwar
Auction houses. I'd much rather see Western MMO's adopt a concept that many Asian MMO's have used, player stalls. It adds to the social aspect of the game, allows for bartering, and it just adds more life and atmosphere to cities, and other parts of the world. Imagine seeing a few player stalls outside of raid entrances, its little things like that I think would make games more immersive.

 

Ermm we have had a western MMO with stalls, SOE was doing it 12 years ago with EQ with the Nexus, it was a bit laggy though . But yeah I agree with you, we seem to going backwards compared to games like Age of Wushu's.

I agree we are going backwards on the MMO's genre it seems Dev wanna be lazy and do the smallest amount of work that turns a profit without putting much effort or thought into the game there making heance all the WoW clones (Investors arnt helping either).

Originally posted by sanshi44

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by loulaki

well to add which bothers me

 

1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

They had no physics engines, they were isometric (no 3D graphics), they were limited in what you can do. If you want  a blank canvas - world exploration 3D graphics, etc., then you need more horsepower and this is what I was talking about. We don't want to back to UO type graphics - especailly from a bigger company.

I think it is very disingenuous to you to say that developers are slackers - they are not but the reality is they have to make decisions to get product out the door. Plain and simple. Your stating they do as little as possible points out you have no clue as to how much work goes into a game.

Originally posted by sanshi44

Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

You know, it would be easier to take you a little more seriously if you didn't fall back on the old "omg devs r la-zy!" we've been hearing ever day since 1979.

If you don't have any actual data, "I don't like instances" is sufficient to carry the op.  Inventing a lot of properties for employees of EvilCorp isn't really necessary.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by sanshi44

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by loulaki

well to add which bothers me

 

1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

They had no physics engines, they were isometric (no 3D graphics), they were limited in what you can do. If youo want  a blank canvas - world exploration 3D graphics, etc., then you need more horsepower and this is what I was talking about. We don't want to back to UO type graphics - especailly from a bigger company..

Ok then let me bring forth to you a game called darkfall its a large world with no instances, another one planet side 2 another large world with no instances (PS2 also has one of the best physic engine and lighting ive seen in a game) it may not have NPC in there but it does have a heck of alot more places on the screen than MMORPG nowadays and i experience no lag at all.

Originally posted by sanshi44

Ok then let me bring forth to you a game called darkfall its a large world with no instances..

...and one of the smallest player populations.

Model density has a great deal to do with rendering load.  Ask Blizzard (and Lagforge).

Originally posted by timtrack

Things i don't like about cars:

• Wheels
• Engine
• Doors
• Painting
• Windows
• Seats
• Air Conditioning
• Dashboard
• Gas-tank
• Exhaust pipe
• Seat-belts
• Ability do drive and turn

I love cars tho.

Sums up every game forum on the planet. 

And I agree :)

you could custom make a game for each individual poster according to what they say they like and dislike, and chances are many  would still say it sucks.

It's easy to be a game dev and make a MMORPG, isn't it?

Originally posted by sanshi44

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by sanshi44

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by loulaki

well to add which bothers me

 

1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

They had no physics engines, they were isometric (no 3D graphics), they were limited in what you can do. If youo want  a blank canvas - world exploration 3D graphics, etc., then you need more horsepower and this is what I was talking about. We don't want to back to UO type graphics - especailly from a bigger company..

Ok then let me bring forth to you a game called darkfall its a large world with no instances, another one planet side 2 another large world with no instances (PS2 also has one of the best physic engine and lighting ive seen in a game) it may not have NPC in there but it does have a heck of alot more places on the screen than MMORPG nowadays and i experience no lag at all.

I have played it - the graphics were PITA - the game was laggy as all get out - had more bugs than D3 when it came out - very small population. Not a game on my radar.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by sanshi44

Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

You know, it would be easier to take you a little more seriously if you didn't fall back on the old "omg devs r la-zy!" we've been hearing ever day since 1979.

If you don't have any actual data, "I don't like instances" is sufficient to carry the op.  Inventing a lot of properties for employees of EvilCorp isn't really necessary.

Zones/area's

Everquest zones on release around 90

Wow zones on release about 60

Rift zones on release like 16

zones were around the same sioze as each other in each game

Factions/Alignment

Everquest faction (alighnment system) was huge each city had atleast 5 different factions in (for example Qeynos had corrupted guard, non corrupted guards, all class factions, black burrow and more than i cant remember off the top of my head that u can increase or decrease inside North/.South qeynos just one if the 12 cities or so in that game. there was probaly atleast 200+ different factions you could be allied with or Kill on sight with on release

WoW had about about 20 or so on release

Rift had like 5

Number of starter Cities

Everquest around 12

WoW - 6

Rift - 2

Races

Everquest -12

WoW 8

Rift -6 (i beleive)

Classes

Everquest - 13

WoW - around 8ish

Rift - had 4 classes with like 8 rolls in each classes that u could use 3 of any of those rolls at a time to build a class. Rift did score higher on the number of classes cause they put alot of work in trying to make this what different them from the game they were cloning would of been nice if they put work on the other part of the game aswell.

This will do for now as you can see the been less effort put into games over the years, its late so im off to bed.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by sanshi44

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by sanshi44

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by loulaki

well to add which bothers me

 

1) lack of open worlds and in the same place i would add the dungeons, why they have to be closed and instanced ?

Big world need big servers and lots of memory. We can't even model a bacterial cell (it takes months on some of the new supoercomputer) and you want it all open? Realistically this will not happen for a long time. Instanced makes it easier to control and you have all the bosses and drops to your group. In an open world the boss might only appear once a day or so. 

Games before WoW ran fine without instances, Games like darkfall dont have instances at all i beleive vanguard is also like this. The reason why instances are so commonly found in games is because it is EASYIER for the devs. Devs nowadays do aslittle work as they can to try and make a profit which is why there somany copy pace WoW games on the market. WoW is probaly one of the easier MMO to make and run, so thats what the Devs have been doing from other companies and with it they try to cut the cost on certain things such as game size and so on so its cheaper to produce. A couple of developers acualy try and make somthing different and put the effort into a game and that i applaud them for.

They had no physics engines, they were isometric (no 3D graphics), they were limited in what you can do. If youo want  a blank canvas - world exploration 3D graphics, etc., then you need more horsepower and this is what I was talking about. We don't want to back to UO type graphics - especailly from a bigger company..

Ok then let me bring forth to you a game called darkfall its a large world with no instances, another one planet side 2 another large world with no instances (PS2 also has one of the best physic engine and lighting ive seen in a game) it may not have NPC in there but it does have a heck of alot more places on the screen than MMORPG nowadays and i experience no lag at all.

I have played it - the graphics were PITA - the game was laggy as all get out - had more bugs than D3 when it came out - very small population. Not a game on my radar.

Graphic would of been dulled down a little for PS2 since its and FPS and FPS counts alot compared to a MMORPG, and i have no lag at all playing it even in the 100v100v100 or so fights on max settings. guess it doesnt agree with somthing in your computer apparently Radeon grpahic card dont perform as good as Nviidea since the phyx system was disgigned my Nvidea that there using in the lightforge engine so that may be causing ur lag.

Originally posted by sanshi44

This will do for now as you can see the been less effort put into games over the years, its late so im off to bed.

But you failed to establish a correlational link between "number of instances" and "laziness". Without first establishing a link, number of instances is just a rote list...

- Themepark questing

- Lack of any death penalty at all

- Maybe the fact that most MMOs seldom keep a player's attention for more than 3 months :(