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General Discussion  » GW2 will be the big e-sport of 2013

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211 posts found
  xposeidon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 393

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

12/06/12 7:07:03 AM#41
I'd take anything the devs say nowadays with a grain of salt, it's obvious they are willing to change the direction of the game anyday they please, we can learn this from the nov 15 patch.

Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5020

12/06/12 7:16:30 AM#42
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by Greyhooff

GW2 is set for huge e-sport success.

lol 

No.

Agreed, GW2 becoming an esport is something of a joke, it just doesnt have the right recipe of ingredients to support that kind of 'gameplay', where Arenanet gets the idea that it does, i really don't know.

  Freezzo

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/12
Posts: 232

12/06/12 7:26:05 AM#43
Originally posted by dreamsofwar
I can't see GW2 being bigger than League of Legends or Starcraft.

That's more because of the genre. I can see GW2 becoming the biggest MMO e-sport though, but compared to true strategy games it's actually lacking.

To all those denying GW2 the ability to become a good e-sport, there's a few points you should check for with games that are or have the potential to become e-sports.

  1. Following and a dedicated playerbase. Both the SC2 and LoL communities are there, they're big and there are tons of people who play those games, be it at a lower level. This has to be proven for GW2 though.
  2. Understandability of the game. This is where a lot of MMOs fail. It's great to play PvP yourself and have 50 skills and multitasking like an octopus with fingers, but for people watching it's impossible to track what players are doing. LoL/any MOBA kinda has a flaw there unless you start getting into the game a bit more, whereas in SC2 it becomes clear fast enough what things do (coloccus: Bigass laser beams. Siege tank: sieging up and shooting, Marine: shooting, etc...). This is actually not too hard to do with GW2, because when you see a warrior with an axe charing in you know he'll start hacking and slashing, as with any MMO, but people don't get scared away by seeing 10000 abilities on 6+ bars. In fact you just see 10 abilities.
  3. Enjoyable to watch: Again with MOBAs this is kinda flawed as they operate with lanes, split battles, quick battles and no way to recap, so I'll take SC2 as an explanation factor here again. Say in SC2 there's a drop going on (for those who don't know: placing limited amounts of units anywhere on the map by air transport) and there's a huge battle going on. Whilst you are watching the battle it might be that you completely miss the effects of the drop, but after the fight you can check and see there's dead units/buildings or if the drop was cleared up. With this GW2/MMOs are more like MOBAs, they are fast paced in combat and  if there are mulitple things happening at once there's no recap to see what happened other than some player has died or took massive damage.
  4. Good spectator options. Mainly for casters/observers. Doesn't need much further explanation.
  5. A good metagame. There have to be possibilities of new and exciting builds or strategies able to counter opponents or do something so radically different and work that there's constant discussions on topics like that. You need depth for those playing at the top level and those interested in it. I can't really comment on GW2 in this regard (as I haven't gotten into spvp yet), but as far as I've seen the setup of the skills/traits works great for this and I do enjoy reading about it already.
I think that about sums up the requirements for e-sports aside from developers commitment, balancing, stuff that are basically needed for any game wanting to become an e-sport. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on something though ^^
 

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

12/06/12 7:30:38 AM#44
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

[mod edit] I was logged in this morning and 1/2 of the American servers at 5:00 AM EST were FULL the rest were very high. It doesn't seem to be having issues. Looking at the EU servers all but 5 were full and they were very high. Your wanting something to happen doesn't make it so.

 

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

 
OP  12/06/12 7:34:48 AM#45
Originally posted by Freezzo
Originally posted by dreamsofwar
I can't see GW2 being bigger than League of Legends or Starcraft.

That's more because of the genre. I can see GW2 becoming the biggest MMO e-sport though, but compared to true strategy games it's actually lacking.

To all those denying GW2 the ability to become a good e-sport, there's a few points you should check for with games that are or have the potential to become e-sports.

  1. Following and a dedicated playerbase. Both the SC2 and LoL communities are there, they're big and there are tons of people who play those games, be it at a lower level. This has to be proven for GW2 though.
  2. Understandability of the game. This is where a lot of MMOs fail. It's great to play PvP yourself and have 50 skills and multitasking like an octopus with fingers, but for people watching it's impossible to track what players are doing. LoL/any MOBA kinda has a flaw there unless you start getting into the game a bit more, whereas in SC2 it becomes clear fast enough what things do (coloccus: Bigass laser beams. Siege tank: sieging up and shooting, Marine: shooting, etc...). This is actually not too hard to do with GW2, because when you see a warrior with an axe charing in you know he'll start hacking and slashing, as with any MMO, but people don't get scared away by seeing 10000 abilities on 6+ bars. In fact you just see 10 abilities.
  3. Enjoyable to watch: Again with MOBAs this is kinda flawed as they operate with lanes, split battles, quick battles and no way to recap, so I'll take SC2 as an explanation factor here again. Say in SC2 there's a drop going on (for those who don't know: placing limited amounts of units anywhere on the map by air transport) and there's a huge battle going on. Whilst you are watching the battle it might be that you completely miss the effects of the drop, but after the fight you can check and see there's dead units/buildings or if the drop was cleared up. With this GW2/MMOs are more like MOBAs, they are fast paced in combat and  if there are mulitple things happening at once there's no recap to see what happened other than some player has died or took massive damage.
  4. Good spectator options. Mainly for casters/observers. Doesn't need much further explanation.
  5. A good metagame. There have to be possibilities of new and exciting builds or strategies able to counter opponents or do something so radically different and work that there's constant discussions on topics like that. You need depth for those playing at the top level and those interested in it. I can't really comment on GW2 in this regard (as I haven't gotten into spvp yet), but as far as I've seen the setup of the skills/traits works great for this and I do enjoy reading about it already.
I think that about sums up the requirements for e-sports aside from developers commitment, balancing, stuff that are basically needed for any game wanting to become an e-sport. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on something though ^^
 

 

Here's someone who knows what esports is all about.

GW2's strengths lie in its metagame, and that it has huge depth but also immediacy and visual simplicity.

The trait/weapon/item/class system overlaid on the combo system is what makes it unique.

The combos are very visual so when it comes to spectating it's very clear what combos are being set up from classes/traits/items in the team comp. All the combos are counterable, with the current exception of dark field blast finishers.

It has all the hallmarks of a great esports meta for competitive PVP teamplay, just like League.

No other MMO has even the slightest chance at e-sport viability, GW2 does because of the specific meta on which it works.

  Freezzo

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/12
Posts: 232

12/06/12 7:45:45 AM#46
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Freezzo
 

Here's someone who knows what esports is all about.

GW2's strengths lie in its metagame, and that it has huge depth but also immediacy and visual simplicity.

The trait/weapon/item/class system overlaid on the combo system is what makes it unique.

The combos are very visual so when it comes to spectating it's very clear what combos are being set up from classes/traits/items in the team comp. All the combos are counterable, with the current exception of dark field blast finishers.

It has all the hallmarks of a great esports meta for competitive PVP teamplay, just like League.

No other MMO has even the slightest chance at e-sport viability, GW2 does because of the specific meta on which it works.

Don't forget reviving, which has to be timed right and downed state use can turn around fights :)

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4511

12/06/12 7:46:33 AM#47

GW2 big e sport - highly doubtful, the game doesn't have a HUGE round the world playerbase (like Starcraft or WoW) it doesn't have a f2p model, so it's not accessible as LoL for example.

GW2 shines as a game for casual players, that's what the devs should stick too - focus on your core competence, don't try to make your game into something that it was not designed to be.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6956

12/06/12 7:48:24 AM#48
Originally posted by Freezzo
Originally posted by dreamsofwar
I can't see GW2 being bigger than League of Legends or Starcraft.

snip..

  1. A good metagame. There have to be possibilities of new and exciting builds or strategies able to counter opponents or do something so radically different and work that there's constant discussions on topics like that. You need depth for those playing at the top level and those interested in it. I can't really comment on GW2 in this regard (as I haven't gotten into spvp yet), but as far as I've seen the setup of the skills/traits works great for this and I do enjoy reading about it already.
 
 

This is the one that is and will be the problem. There are no Magic Boxes, 4 gate DT rushes,  6 pool rushes or the equivalents in GW2.  It's pretty much what you see is what you get. There may be different ways to split up and occupy nodes, but that's about the breath of it atm.

 

If GW2 had the TSW ability wheel (I would still be pvp'n in GW2), now we'd be talking, or even if there were slotable options for you main abilities. As things stand right now, this is the catagory that's most wanting atm.

 

One more thing. There is something about the deathmatch style that WoW arena gives that GW2's dominations just can't offer. I think it's the pressure and thrill of doing everything right, and the fear of making mistakes that will kill you team and rating.

Elder Scrolls Online vs Wildstar Mass PvP you decide.

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1353

12/06/12 7:52:41 AM#49
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Toxia
Originally posted by Syferus
Every dev talks the talk, hoping they can increase their numbers and keep up the visage of a bright future.  GW2 is no exception.  It is highly unlikely that GW2 will be the next big esport. By design the game was intended as a PvE experience first.  No matter the balancing changes or future plans for PvP, GW2 won't be able to compete with PvP based games like LoL or Dota2.  Their playerbases are focused on competition, while there is a large number of GW2 players that play GW2 solely for its PvE content.  If GW2 expands its playerbase so far that it's select PvP player base rivals WoW or LoL's then they might have a chance.  As of right now, it doesn't look like that will happen.

I wish they would stick to this, and stop changing everything for the sake of their PvP. They certainly seem more interested in PVP balance than PVE balance, which never go hand in hand. If 80% of your players came for the pve, yet only see constant nerfs and changing to their classes for the sake of pvp, it wont bode well. imo.

By desing this game was not intended to be as a pve game first, like almost all other mmo's. They based a lot of their design decisions around pvp, specifically spvp.

 

It's pretty clear they designed the game for PvP first. All those incredibly powerful 2 second fears and cc abilities how fun for PvE...Not to mention every class does everything (snares, dots etc etc). One day a dev will separate PvP and pve effects and everyone will be happy...some day.
  timeraider

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/11
Posts: 539

12/06/12 8:32:47 AM#50

I wish it would grow bigger as spvp... at start it took me 10 seconds to get into an free spvp tournament. Atm it costs 20-30 minutes.. if your lucky.

 

Thats... sad

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  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

12/06/12 8:37:35 AM#51
Originally posted by Purutzil
Originally posted by botrytis
[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

[mod edit]

 I was logged in this morning and 1/2 of the American servers at 5:00 AM EST were FULL the rest were very high. It doesn't seem to be having issues. Looking at the EU servers all but 5 were full and they were very high. Your wanting something to happen doesn't make it so.

[mod edit]

I was just using the same type of argument he was. Trying to show how FUTILE the whole 'It's dying, it's not' argument is. Sorry I didn't make it plain that way.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  IPolygon

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 699

12/06/12 8:43:49 AM#52
Actions first, talk later. GW1 started with more pvp features (ladder, matchmaking) than GW2 and was developed by a much smaller team. Needless to say, strategy is strong in the prequel, in the sequel not so much. That many classes are bugged and outclassed by others tells a lot about how important spvp actually is. In addtion to that, pvp being improved 5 months after release is bad considering their "when it's done" excuse. The game is far from done.
  Trystic

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 7

12/06/12 8:53:11 AM#53

Only way an mmorpg like GW2 will beat WoW in e-sports is if they can manage an impossible 1v1 balance between all the classes. Which no mmorpg has ever done and is seen as the impossible.

The reason WoW will always lead the e-sports scene is because Blizzard also has Starcraft2, and that game along with league of legends are the mainstream competition in e-sports. And aslong as Blizzard hosts Starcraft2 championships the WoW ones will be right there with it.

GW2 does not have any solid ground in e-sports, GW was balanced but it was not prevalent in the scene like other competitive games.

If any mmorpg can manage to have a variety of classes and balance them in 1v1 PvP, as well as team PvP, then that mmorpg can make it easy into e-sports, but like I said, 1v1 PvP is almost impossible to balance if you want class variety. I'm honestly surprised League of Legends has made it into E-sports, which probably isn't due to it's balance, but  more due to its immense popularity and growth, just like WoW. Anyone who has played either of these games knows first hand that all the classes/champions are not balanced perfectly. So balance isn't the ONLY factor in e-sports.

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1798

12/06/12 8:59:19 AM#54
I hope they develop it enough to actually be e-sport viable. They have a long way to go IMO.
  elitero

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 293

12/06/12 9:18:04 AM#55


Originally posted by Trystic
Only way an mmorpg like GW2 will beat WoW in e-sports is if they can manage an impossible 1v1 balance between all the classes. Which no mmorpg has ever done and is seen as the impossible.

The reason WoW will always lead the e-sports scene is because Blizzard also has Starcraft2, and that game along with league of legends are the mainstream competition in e-sports. And aslong as Blizzard hosts Starcraft2 championships the WoW ones will be right there with it.

GW2 does not have any solid ground in e-sports, GW was balanced but it was not prevalent in the scene like other competitive games.

If any mmorpg can manage to have a variety of classes and balance them in 1v1 PvP, as well as team PvP, then that mmorpg can make it easy into e-sports, but like I said, 1v1 PvP is almost impossible to balance if you want class variety. I'm honestly surprised League of Legends has made it into E-sports, which probably isn't due to it's balance, but  more due to its immense popularity and growth, just like WoW. Anyone who has played either of these games knows first hand that all the classes/champions are not balanced perfectly. So balance isn't the ONLY factor in e-sports.



WoW was kicked out of e-sport a long time ago buddy =P

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

 
OP  12/06/12 9:19:59 AM#56
Originally posted by Trystic

Only way an mmorpg like GW2 will beat WoW in e-sports is if they can manage an impossible 1v1 balance between all the classes. Which no mmorpg has ever done and is seen as the impossible.

The reason WoW will always lead the e-sports scene is because Blizzard also has Starcraft2, and that game along with league of legends are the mainstream competition in e-sports. And aslong as Blizzard hosts Starcraft2 championships the WoW ones will be right there with it.

GW2 does not have any solid ground in e-sports, GW was balanced but it was not prevalent in the scene like other competitive games.

If any mmorpg can manage to have a variety of classes and balance them in 1v1 PvP, as well as team PvP, then that mmorpg can make it easy into e-sports, but like I said, 1v1 PvP is almost impossible to balance if you want class variety. I'm honestly surprised League of Legends has made it into E-sports, which probably isn't due to it's balance, but  more due to its immense popularity and growth, just like WoW. Anyone who has played either of these games knows first hand that all the classes/champions are not balanced perfectly. So balance isn't the ONLY factor in e-sports.

 

WoW is not an esport and never will be, people in the e-sports community laugh at wow players. Even Blizzard has given up on trying to make it an esport.

WoW's top players are still scrounging for $1 donations on twitch and the only people who care are other wow players, there are no professional arena PVPers.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/06/12 9:21:12 AM#57
[mod edit]

 

Never will buy anthing again before they dare to release a trial, lesson learned

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/06/12 9:25:59 AM#58
Originally posted by Toxia

I wish they would stick to this, and stop changing everything for the sake of their PvP. They certainly seem more interested in PVP balance than PVE balance, which never go hand in hand.

Which, given the history of their company, is not terribly surprising.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

 
OP  12/06/12 9:26:01 AM#59
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by Enerzeal
What a joke, Guild Wars 2 is dying out, it will not sustain its player base, it will not survive, it is not the second coming.

^

sadly this.

Never will buy anthing again before they dare to release a trial, lesson learned

 

Except for this of course, taken last night

 

Some people are starting to sound like EQ players when WoW came out.

Time to face it, GW2 is doing very well.

  Indrome

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 294

This is like trying to drive straight through Schroedinger's minefield!

12/06/12 9:29:08 AM#60

Loved how in the first few minutes they didn't really have anything to talk about. Judging by that it seems a lot of the game is fine the way it currently is.

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