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General Gaming  » Ncsoft : Massive layoffs and offices undergoing 'realignment'

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129 posts found
  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 414

12/05/12 10:47:49 AM#61
Originally posted by Dragim

I don't see how GW2 is underperforming.

Granted, I haven't been playing it lately because of planetside 2, but that aside, the events (holiday or no) generate so much cash.

In my guild, there were people dropping hundreds of dollars on the cash shop in order to try to get one of the rare "item graphics" for their weapons.  --I wouldn't do it, but to each their own.

They have had at least 2 events now with special skins and players have dropped enormous amounts of money attempting to get them.

Granted, these 6+ guildies could be the only ones doing so, but I have a sneaky suspicion that many others do as well.

I just don't see how GW2 is under-performing, but perhaps I am just missing something, which very well may be.

Lets see.

 

NCSoft has to pay monthly for staff (salaries, benefits, overhead for the equipment they use, office space, servers,  etc.)

GW2 = one time purchase.....no money coming in monthly

A poll on this site showed that 70% of the people didn't spend money in the cash shop) 

GW2 relies on NCSofts other games to make up the difference much like GW did.

Other games aren't doing so well.

Not to mention that GW only made up approx 3% of NCSofts revenue since 2009. Wouldn't be surprised if GW gets shut down.

I am guessing that since most of GW2 profit was realized the first week or so after launch that sales has dropped, and factor in the F2P crowd who say its the best game of the year but don't support it....they have to do something.

  Pyuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 660

12/05/12 10:49:11 AM#62
Originally posted by DMKano

The insider word on the street was that GW2 was underperforming, this pretty much confirms those rumors. 

I hope all those affected land on their feet - layoffs during holiday season is just heartless.

QFT on all fronts. Not a happy time at all.

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2555

12/05/12 10:53:07 AM#63
Originally posted by Pyuk
Originally posted by DMKano

The insider word on the street was that GW2 was underperforming, this pretty much confirms those rumors. 

I hope all those affected land on their feet - layoffs during holiday season is just heartless.

QFT on all fronts. Not a happy time at all.

As I said, data for proof otherwise it is just nonsense. I would say that for all the games. Just remember, GW2 was only released for Europe and NA markets - it isn't in Asia yet.

 

Based on NCSoft 3rd quarter report - GW2 (one month report) was doing as well as B&S (3 months out with sub fee) so I don't know where your 'insider friend' is getting his data.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2669

12/05/12 11:01:41 AM#64
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by thetimes
Originally posted by korvass

Isn't NCSoft 'simply' the publisher of GW2? As far as I've seen from videos and interviews, the game is developed entirely by ArenaNet in their own offices.

Given the evidence that I can see with my own eyes, there's nothing that says GW2 is underperforming.

NCsoft is the owner and publisher of GW2. NCsoft west is Areanet. NCwest is the office to be "realigned."

While NCSoft owns ArenaNet, NCWest is not ArenaNet, though ArenaNet may be a part of NCWest; I'm not sure about that.  ArenaNet's offices are located in Bellevue, NCWest is in Seattle.  Two totally different cities.

 

Since GW2 is one of NCSoft's biggest money makers, I doubt there will be much "realignment" when it comes to ArenaNet.  This is more likely trimming the fat after shutting down CoH and selling Aion.

NCSoft West isn't Arena.net.

In fact a few years back (2008) NCSoft moved some people from Anet to NCSoft West, most notably Jeff Strain and Patrick Wyatt.which both left in 2009.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2669

12/05/12 11:08:25 AM#65
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by DMKano

The insider word on the street was that GW2 was underperforming, this pretty much confirms those rumors. 

I hope all those affected land on their feet - layoffs during holiday season is just heartless.

GW2s goal was 3 million copies sold until 31st december (Source: NC soft prelaunch). We know that it sold out abou 2.2 million copies a few weeks after launch. It have sold some more copies since so it probably is somewhere near 2.3-2.6M copies right now.

That is less than target number but X-mas season is up soon so it might sell more or less.

But even if it "just" sold minimum copies there is no way that can be the real reason beyond massive layoffs, it still have minimum sold 75% of target numbers and unless someone in NC soft had the silly idea that everyone who bought the game would spend $100+ in the itemshop (which would be impressive even for a F2P game and totally unrealistic) there is no way that is a big enough disaster for NC soft to make massive layoffs.

So lets think a second, is there some other NC soft games out that have underperformed far under expactations the last few years?

Well, Aion comes to mind first but there are others as well. Korean (as well as Chinese) made games generally do bad in the west and other companies than NC soft have found out this the hard way as well. 

But feel free to blame GW2 if it makes you feel better, personally I have wondered why they didnt do this before. GW2 is probably NC softs only game that is popular in the West at the moment. Aion didnt go F2P becuase NC soft wanted to be kind, it couldnt support P2P any longer.

You are mistaken.

That wasn't NCSoft or Arenanet goal.

That was a market expert prediction.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  User Deleted
12/05/12 11:19:03 AM#66
Originally posted by superniceguy

GW1 will end up being in trouble before GW2.

There is no point getting into GW1 at all now, for fear of a shut down, and just focus on GW2, but with this news, it does not add confidence but if it is true that COH was shut down to focus on GW2, then GW2 should be quite safe, unless their finaces worsen further, and into bankruptcy

However, I am not touching a MMO or anything associated with NC Soft again, until they start to become more reasonable. They do business in an unreasonable manner, and it resulted in the closure of Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault, and now COH. They may have needed to close COH but they could have sold the IP to another company to take it over, and they did offer to sell it but it came with unreasonable demands.

They wont be shutting down GW1 until they shut down GW2, due to the fact that they have linked the two games and the GW2 rewards are cross-promotional for people to go play GW1 to unlock them.

  xmenty

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 692

12/05/12 11:22:16 AM#67

I am not sure what are you guys assuming about?

Ncsoft and Nexon are looking to buy over a big gaming company.

Read the news.

Ncsoft and Nexon are clearing all the unwanted baggage, 

before they go in cos they have to focus more on that new big company.

By the end 2013 they will definitely buy / takeover that company.

Maybe they will buy THQ.

Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 894

12/05/12 11:25:46 AM#68
Originally posted by itstheclimax
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by DMKano

The insider word on the street was that GW2 was underperforming, this pretty much confirms those rumors. 

I hope all those affected land on their feet - layoffs during holiday season is just heartless.

 People were saying that when Paragon was closed and City of Heroes closing was announced.  Do we have any real facts regarding GW2 underperforming?

none at all, but who needs it?

 

in fact in spite of all the hate and hopes for failure aimed at Anet, the real fact of this situaton is that they are likely merging NCSoft West INTO ArenaNet...lol. 

  Myria

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 549

12/05/12 11:31:20 AM#69
Originally posted by evilastro

They wont be shutting down GW1 until they shut down GW2, due to the fact that they have linked the two games and the GW2 rewards are cross-promotional for people to go play GW1 to unlock them.

I doubt they'd shut down either, to be honest. If there was a buyer for Fallen Earth there'd sure the hell be a buyer for GW1/2 -- for the right price -- and at this point NCSoft needs money too much to ignore that. Mind you, I doubt anyone here would like the end result, but that's life.

That having been said, watching the Anet Defense Force becoming more unhinged than usual (Who knew that was even possible?) is amusing, especially given that most of them had Bioware/EA going out of business and ToR shut down in shame over a hell of a lot less than this.

NCSoft is in trouble, serious trouble, and has been for a while. This should come as a shock to no one that is paying attention the MMO Landscape. Anyone not expecting potentially major shake-ups with their properties -- and, make no mistake, Anet is their property -- is a fool. Does that mean GW1/2 are going under, to be sold tomorrow, or suddenly going to get a monthly fee? Probably not, but, even more so than with Funcom -- much more so, even though Funcom is probably in even more finacial trouble overall -- I would be ready for -- nay, outright expecting -- just about anything from NCSoft.

They are not a company known for half measures or a fear of fan backlash.

  Terranah

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3618

12/05/12 11:32:35 AM#70

Well I hope nothing bad happens to GW2.  It's a fun game that I got a lot of enjoyment out of.  I'd be sad if it...died.

 

And yes I have very creative toe nails.  Hehe

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 894

12/05/12 11:41:26 AM#71
Originally posted by xmenty

I am not sure what are you guys assuming about?

Ncsoft and Nexon are looking to buy over a big gaming company.

Read the news.

Ncsoft and Nexon are clearing all the unwanted baggage, 

before they go in cos they have to focus more on that new big company.

By the end 2013 they will definitely buy / takeover that company.

Maybe they will buy THQ.

Could that company be XLGames?

Just playing conspiracy theory  =)

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/05/12 11:53:58 AM#72
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by clumsytoes44
Somehow this really does not surprise me.

^

QFT

GW2 is not performing too well with - well, zero monthly subs.

And the cost for ads must have been horrendous.

Where is the data that GW2 is not performing well or is it your own bias? So far, GW2 looks like it is doing fine. Also, A.Net is the devloper and NCSoft is the publisher - 2 different things. Aion is developed and published by NCSoft - there is your difference.

 

So you are saying that if they had a monthly sub for GW2, NCSoft would be doing well? A very niave and narrow opinion - GW1 is still going and it has no sub.

I'm not saying this. In fact I think GW2 would never work as a sub game.

Fact is they don't earn a lot of steady money each month because there is no sub fee and player numbers are rather dwindling.

The heavy cash shop focus might work for some, but I doubt the broad masses buy treasure chest keys and the other stuff they are selling.

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/05/12 11:57:46 AM#73
Originally posted by xmenty

I am not sure what are you guys assuming about?

Ncsoft and Nexon are looking to buy over a big gaming company.

Read the news.

Ncsoft and Nexon are clearing all the unwanted baggage, 

before they go in cos they have to focus more on that new big company.

By the end 2013 they will definitely buy / takeover that company.

Maybe they will buy THQ.

oh god I hope they buy some korean studio and not another US studio to further implement their businessmodels on the western market

 

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2555

12/05/12 12:11:05 PM#74
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by clumsytoes44
Somehow this really does not surprise me.

^

QFT

GW2 is not performing too well with - well, zero monthly subs.

And the cost for ads must have been horrendous.

Where is the data that GW2 is not performing well or is it your own bias? So far, GW2 looks like it is doing fine. Also, A.Net is the devloper and NCSoft is the publisher - 2 different things. Aion is developed and published by NCSoft - there is your difference.

 

So you are saying that if they had a monthly sub for GW2, NCSoft would be doing well? A very niave and narrow opinion - GW1 is still going and it has no sub.

I'm not saying this. In fact I think GW2 would never work as a sub game.

Fact is they don't earn a lot of steady money each month because there is no sub fee and player numbers are rather dwindling.

The heavy cash shop focus might work for some, but I doubt the broad masses buy treasure chest keys and the other stuff they are selling.

Again - where are the numbers dwindling? Who's data? Please elaborate.

 

Again CS is optional - please get that straight. A.net supported GW1, just by itself fine.

 

Steady money coming in doesn't mean it is a good or will survive - look at SWTOR as an example of that (not saying it won't survive - but going F2P on a simple level means they are having problems).

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  kitarad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1371

12/05/12 12:17:40 PM#75
Would GW 2 have made more money with a sub ?

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3581

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

12/05/12 12:18:34 PM#76

Typical of NCsoft, if you know their past history.  Its not nearly enough to make a profit. That profit has to match up with the bean counters projections.  Oddly enough, the cuts usually tend to be in western properties...

Thats why I really worry about WildStar. 

  DAVIDMINDY

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/05
Posts: 27

12/05/12 12:18:44 PM#77

 

I love how we Americans assume a foreign company is failing because some of us don’t like their product. But I do like facts.

1.       AION is wholly owned by NCSOFT

2.       COH was a profitable company when they closed it; it was not closed due to financial reasons. Primary reason for complaints.

3.       They are consolidating the company because they want to expand it. This has been in the financial news for a while.

4.       They are still profitable during a global recession even though they are down by half.

5.       55% of their total profits are in KOREA, you know because it is a Korean company.

6.       AION is 16% of their profits still

7.       Their biggest expense is labor, which is why u cut it first.

8.       GW2 is 27% of their profits

9.       GW2 is only release in US and 10 countries in Europe.

U can believe everything on the internet. (humor for the dense ones :) )

Link to their financials

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx 

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 414

12/05/12 12:44:38 PM#78
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by FromHell

I'm not saying this. In fact I think GW2 would never work as a sub game.

Fact is they don't earn a lot of steady money each month because there is no sub fee and player numbers are rather dwindling.

The heavy cash shop focus might work for some, but I doubt the broad masses buy treasure chest keys and the other stuff they are selling.

You keep throwing 'heavy cash shop focus' around in every single GW2 thread. I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

What exactly was so essential for you to buy?

Oh whats that?

Nothing?

Then stop being a fool and saying it has a 'heavy cash shop focus'.  The business model they have worked fine for GW1, and it will work fine for GW2. Just because you are used to years of being exploited by companies that charge you for effectively doing very little, doesnt mean that another company cant operate without doing the same.

 

I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

 

Maybe if you and all the others who haven't spent past the box price things wouldn't be looking alittle grim over at NCSoft.

If the game is so good, why not support it?

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3581

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

12/05/12 12:58:30 PM#79
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by FromHell

I'm not saying this. In fact I think GW2 would never work as a sub game.

Fact is they don't earn a lot of steady money each month because there is no sub fee and player numbers are rather dwindling.

The heavy cash shop focus might work for some, but I doubt the broad masses buy treasure chest keys and the other stuff they are selling.

You keep throwing 'heavy cash shop focus' around in every single GW2 thread. I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

What exactly was so essential for you to buy?

Oh whats that?

Nothing?

Then stop being a fool and saying it has a 'heavy cash shop focus'.  The business model they have worked fine for GW1, and it will work fine for GW2. Just because you are used to years of being exploited by companies that charge you for effectively doing very little, doesnt mean that another company cant operate without doing the same.

 

I haven't spent a cent on the cash shop in GW2 and have had no desire or need to.

 

Maybe if you and all the others who haven't spent past the box price things wouldn't be looking alittle grim over at NCSoft.

If the game is so good, why not support it?

Anet and NCsoft picked the business model.  One of the differences (between GW1 and GW2) is the economic times we live in.  Their cash shop is long on fluff, and short on anything really necessary. Which some people consider to be a plus. 

But that does tend to limit their potential profits. 

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1942

12/05/12 1:06:06 PM#80
Originally posted by Loke666

GW2s goal was 3 million copies sold until 31st december (Source: NC soft prelaunch). We know that it sold out abou 2.2 million copies a few weeks after launch. It have sold some more copies since so it probably is somewhere near 2.3-2.6M copies right now.

That is less than target number but X-mas season is up soon so it might sell more or less.

But even if it "just" sold minimum copies there is no way that can be the real reason beyond massive layoffs, it still have minimum sold 75% of target numbers and unless someone in NC soft had the silly idea that everyone who bought the game would spend $100+ in the itemshop (which would be impressive even for a F2P game and totally unrealistic) there is no way that is a big enough disaster for NC soft to make massive layoffs.

So lets think a second, is there some other NC soft games out that have underperformed far under expactations the last few years?

Well, Aion comes to mind first but there are others as well. Korean (as well as Chinese) made games generally do bad in the west and other companies than NC soft have found out this the hard way as well. 

But feel free to blame GW2 if it makes you feel better, personally I have wondered why they didnt do this before. GW2 is probably NC softs only game that is popular in the West at the moment. Aion didnt go F2P becuase NC soft wanted to be kind, it couldnt support P2P any longer.

 

Welcome to the world of the P2W business model.   They don't care about sale numbers.  It is all about item shop numbers.

 

- " Free " players converted to using the cash shop

and

- Amount that players spend

 

If neither of these two metrics are met, then the game is considered underperforming. 

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