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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » The depth of combat in GW2.

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185 posts found
  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2300

12/04/12 4:40:53 PM#41
Originally posted by BadSpock

The combat in GW2 is a lot less faceroll and requires you to pay attention or suffer the consequences - but I wouldn't call that "depth."

There may be more to it on the surface, but I wouldn't call it depth...

Breadth?

I would define "depth" when it refers to combat in a MMO as: complex interactions that happen at multiple layers.

None of the interactions in GW2 are all that complex - most of the time they are fairly obvious, and in terms of layers it's really quite shallow.

Once you go outside the realm of solo play and get into group play is where GW2 - IMO - really falls apart.

 

I agree with this.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

12/04/12 4:42:54 PM#42
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by BadSpock

The combat in GW2 is a lot less faceroll and requires you to pay attention or suffer the consequences - but I wouldn't call that "depth."

There may be more to it on the surface, but I wouldn't call it depth...

Breadth?

I would define "depth" when it refers to combat in a MMO as: complex interactions that happen at multiple layers.

None of the interactions in GW2 are all that complex - most of the time they are fairly obvious, and in terms of layers it's really quite shallow.

Once you go outside the realm of solo play and get into group play is where GW2 - IMO - really falls apart.

 

I agree with this.

I suggest you guys try some tourny pre-made spvp.


  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7260

12/04/12 4:44:57 PM#43
Originally posted by Calerxes

After reading Elikal's thread about combat it got me thinking about the combat system. I've only just started playing GW2 as I've been in a few launches and they are just not fun so I held off for a few months. Now I've played a Mesmer to lvl 7 and my main is a lvl 19 Warrior so I am by no means an expert on this and thats really the point of the thread.

No, yes you are an expert. Beyond level 17 you will only be adding 3-4 situational spells. This is the biigest issue with comabt. Plus you will find that the classes are all basically set up the same.

 

Your only level 17 though. Have fun. Things should be great for another 30-40 levels. After it felt like this. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/04/12 4:46:58 PM#44
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Calerxes

After reading Elikal's thread about combat it got me thinking about the combat system. I've only just started playing GW2 as I've been in a few launches and they are just not fun so I held off for a few months. Now I've played a Mesmer to lvl 7 and my main is a lvl 19 Warrior so I am by no means an expert on this and thats really the point of the thread.

No, yes you are an expert. Beyond level 17 you will only be adding 3-4 situational spells. This is the biigest issue with comabt. Plus you will find that the classes are all basically set up the same.

 

Your only level 17 though. Have fun. Things should be great for another 30-40 levels. After it felt like this. 

 Really? It took me a lot longer than that before I could enhance dodging to be a weapon as well.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7260

12/04/12 4:48:11 PM#45
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Calerxes

After reading Elikal's thread about combat it got me thinking about the combat system. I've only just started playing GW2 as I've been in a few launches and they are just not fun so I held off for a few months. Now I've played a Mesmer to lvl 7 and my main is a lvl 19 Warrior so I am by no means an expert on this and thats really the point of the thread.

No, yes you are an expert. Beyond level 17 you will only be adding 3-4 situational spells. This is the biigest issue with comabt. Plus you will find that the classes are all basically set up the same.

 

Your only level 17 though. Have fun. Things should be great for another 30-40 levels. After it felt like this. 

 Really? It took me a lot longer than that before I could enhance dodging to be a weapon as well.

You talking about passives? You'll get plenty of those along the way. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/04/12 4:50:16 PM#46
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Calerxes

After reading Elikal's thread about combat it got me thinking about the combat system. I've only just started playing GW2 as I've been in a few launches and they are just not fun so I held off for a few months. Now I've played a Mesmer to lvl 7 and my main is a lvl 19 Warrior so I am by no means an expert on this and thats really the point of the thread.

No, yes you are an expert. Beyond level 17 you will only be adding 3-4 situational spells. This is the biigest issue with comabt. Plus you will find that the classes are all basically set up the same.

 

Your only level 17 though. Have fun. Things should be great for another 30-40 levels. After it felt like this. 

 Really? It took me a lot longer than that before I could enhance dodging to be a weapon as well.

You talking about passives? You'll get plenty of those along the way. 

 

Passives? Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? 

 

 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

12/04/12 4:51:02 PM#47
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Calerxes

After reading Elikal's thread about combat it got me thinking about the combat system. I've only just started playing GW2 as I've been in a few launches and they are just not fun so I held off for a few months. Now I've played a Mesmer to lvl 7 and my main is a lvl 19 Warrior so I am by no means an expert on this and thats really the point of the thread.

No, yes you are an expert. Beyond level 17 you will only be adding 3-4 situational spells. This is the biigest issue with comabt. Plus you will find that the classes are all basically set up the same.

 

Your only level 17 though. Have fun. Things should be great for another 30-40 levels. After it felt like this. 

 Really? It took me a lot longer than that before I could enhance dodging to be a weapon as well.

You talking about passives? You'll get plenty of those along the way. 

 

Passives? Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? 

 

 

He might actually be thinking about something else.


  sadWinds

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/10
Posts: 96

12/04/12 4:57:06 PM#48

i loved the combat system of gw2, my dual dagger elementalist somehow feels a little like my feral druid due to attunement switching lol. I mean compared to my feral druid who starts off with like feral charge, rake, mangle to 5cp, wait till energy bar(can shift into bear form for the extra dps altho dmg is nt that good) is full and then rip or maim and mangle(add shred in between for the extra lol) again, with my ele i cud ride the lightning, then whip, put a shocking aura in between, could choose ice attunement for slow then shocking aura/earth for knockdown and use signet to immoblise while doing a hard hitting spell.

One thing is that i love playing with different skills and i hate standing on mobs pressing 1,2,3 lol. Used to die alot in the beginning and i tink well ele sucks.. but since i tried dual dagger and do a couple of spvp... i love the combat a lot.. and in pvp i being able to choose between survival and dmg. But theres one thing i hate... ele cant weapon swap, if they can it wud be great lol(altho it wil make pvp too op).

I loved my ret pally and feral dudu in wow but so far gw2 combat keeps me entertained..

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/04/12 4:57:30 PM#49
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Calerxes

After reading Elikal's thread about combat it got me thinking about the combat system. I've only just started playing GW2 as I've been in a few launches and they are just not fun so I held off for a few months. Now I've played a Mesmer to lvl 7 and my main is a lvl 19 Warrior so I am by no means an expert on this and thats really the point of the thread.

No, yes you are an expert. Beyond level 17 you will only be adding 3-4 situational spells. This is the biigest issue with comabt. Plus you will find that the classes are all basically set up the same.

 

Your only level 17 though. Have fun. Things should be great for another 30-40 levels. After it felt like this. 

 Really? It took me a lot longer than that before I could enhance dodging to be a weapon as well.

You talking about passives? You'll get plenty of those along the way. 

 

Passives? Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? 

 

 

He might actually be thinking about something else.

 

Based on the pause, and the fact that he doesn't actually play GW2, I think he's deperately surfing the net trying to figure out what I mean. When he does, perhaps he'll realize at least one example of the depth of the combat... where a seemingly "passive" change can completely alter your combat style in a most active manner.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7260

12/04/12 5:03:24 PM#50
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Calerxes

After reading Elikal's thread about combat it got me thinking about the combat system. I've only just started playing GW2 as I've been in a few launches and they are just not fun so I held off for a few months. Now I've played a Mesmer to lvl 7 and my main is a lvl 19 Warrior so I am by no means an expert on this and thats really the point of the thread.

No, yes you are an expert. Beyond level 17 you will only be adding 3-4 situational spells. This is the biigest issue with comabt. Plus you will find that the classes are all basically set up the same.

 

Your only level 17 though. Have fun. Things should be great for another 30-40 levels. After it felt like this. 

 Really? It took me a lot longer than that before I could enhance dodging to be a weapon as well.

You talking about passives? You'll get plenty of those along the way. 

 

Passives? Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? 

 

 

He might actually be thinking about something else.

 

Based on the pause, and the fact that he doesn't actually play GW2, I think he's deperately surfing the net trying to figure out what I mean. When he does, perhaps he'll realize at least one example of the depth of the combat... where a seemingly "passive" change can completely alter your combat style in a most active manner.

[mod edit]

 

Hey man, you see thing differently. That's ok. I'm happy you find the system deep and the passives game changing. I didn't. It was so simplistic that when I logged back into WoW (1 1/2 years later) I realized how much these new releases were trying to out streamline WoW... 

 

Statements made by GW2 devs like "We don't want people to be overwhelmed (reference to skill and trait changes)" were a red light to how they want things to be. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  EvilGeek

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 1241

My freedom relies on yours

12/04/12 5:11:04 PM#51


Originally posted by BadSpock

Once you go outside the realm of solo play and get into group play is where GW2 - IMO - really falls apart.

 



What group play are you talking about? My guild haven't been zooming through content and it's only the past few weeks that we've focused on organised group content. For us it's been a great (and sometimes frustrating) experience, get a tight knit group who know their classes, know when to support and are situationally aware and group content is a real blast, I say in that situation it really comes together.


  fiontar

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3711

12/04/12 5:16:53 PM#52

There is great depth to combat and profession builds in this game. I have logged over 570 hours and I'm still finding ways to up my game. I think some people see that most one on one, non-vet mobs can be handles with a simple skill rotation and they never look for the depth beyond that point.

My level 80 Thief has been my main for the past month or two, with over 175 hours logged and I'm still finding ways to tweak or mix up my skill use and playstyle. For most MMOs, with no movement, no dodge and 20-40 skills, (most of which are almost never used), once you learn the most efficient rotation, that's it. There isn't much more to do.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 908

12/04/12 5:18:57 PM#53

Guildwars 1 had 10 professions and you could switch your second to any. The ten professions warrior, ranger, monk, necromancer, mesmer, elementalist, assassin, ritualist, paragon and dervish.

Look at the Skill Quantity table.

In contrast from Guildwars 1 to 2 we have...

No Trinity. Healer, Tank, and DPS are not set class roles and anyone can rez. Weapons have set skills and you can tell what you are fighting by what weapon they are using. Weapons have either 5, 3 or 2 skills depending on two handed, main hand or off hand. Plus combo fields and dodge.

A joke about the underwater combat and depth has got to be coming...

How to post links. Check it Archeage
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  User Deleted
12/04/12 5:42:50 PM#54
I really don't get what all the fuss is about. The combat in GW2 is no more complex than that of most standard themepark MMOs. People said this about TSW as well, and it's also a bunch of BS. Building your character in GW2 or TSW is more complex than the standard themepark, but playing the game isn't much more complex than anything else out there. In TSW, the devs meant for you to circle strafe and generally be more mobile when fighting mobs, but the reality of it is that you can just as easily stand there and facetank the vast majority of mobs. It's really not that much different in GW2 IMO. PVP is, of course, a totally different story, but there again, GW2 doesn't make me feel like I'm playing some deep complex game.
  fiontar

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3711

12/04/12 5:46:30 PM#55
Originally posted by EvilGeek

 


Originally posted by BadSpock

 

Once you go outside the realm of solo play and get into group play is where GW2 - IMO - really falls apart.

 


 


What group play are you talking about? My guild haven't been zooming through content and it's only the past few weeks that we've focused on organised group content. For us it's been a great (and sometimes frustrating) experience, get a tight knit group who know their classes, know when to support and are situationally aware and group content is a real blast, I say in that situation it really comes together.

I agree. The most fun I've had playing the game has been when playing with an organized group of guildmates. The game has great versatility with profession mixes. I most often run with a group that's all Warriors and Thieves. The versatility and adaptability of each profession should not be mistaken for a weakness visa vis organized group play. Finding a way to make any given mix of characters work most efficiently is part of the fun! How are games with cookie cutter class and group builds more supportive of organized group play?

In GW2, a group of five thinking players, regardless of prefession mix, can do just about anything. I prefer that to most other games where a cookie cutter group can faceroll content, just because they've combined the proper mix of some re-determined recipe. GW2 group play feels less "scripted" and more dynamic/involving.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2611

12/04/12 5:48:46 PM#56
Originally posted by nilden

Guildwars 1 had 10 professions and you could switch your second to any. The ten professions warrior, ranger, monk, necromancer, mesmer, elementalist, assassin, ritualist, paragon and dervish.

Look at the Skill Quantity table.

In contrast from Guildwars 1 to 2 we have...

No Trinity. Healer, Tank, and DPS are not set class roles and anyone can rez. Weapons have set skills and you can tell what you are fighting by what weapon they are using. Weapons have either 5, 3 or 2 skills depending on two handed, main hand or off hand. Plus combo fields and dodge.

A joke about the underwater combat and depth has got to be coming...

And still paragons had 1 build, elementalists were healers, monks were nukers, rangers had no competitive build, dervishes required an overhaul since assassins and warriors were better with scythes, necromancers were better at other casters jobs in PvE for ages, etc, etc,

Quantity alone doesn't mean much.

On the other hand people that say GW2 combat is shallow are the same that say dungeons are a rez zerg fest - clearly they mastered team combat.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3418

12/04/12 5:56:46 PM#57


Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn
Sounds exactly like Enchants in WoW and many other games that add a chance based proc on hit.
well.. i've never played wow.. and do other games allow you to add a chance to bleed on wpns that wouldn't originally have any chance at all? were u referring to specifically chances to crit or bleed or where u referring to actuall abilities being added to wpns?

Even EQ1 had the ability to proc abilities that your class didn't have natively.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 436

12/04/12 6:01:40 PM#58
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn
Sounds exactly like Enchants in WoW and many other games that add a chance based proc on hit.
well.. i've never played wow.. and do other games allow you to add a chance to bleed on wpns that wouldn't originally have any chance at all? were u referring to specifically chances to crit or bleed or where u referring to actuall abilities being added to wpns?

 

Even EQ1 had the ability to proc abilities that your class didn't have natively.

Thats nice to know... i guess I can understand why a lot off ppl are saying mmo's are going down the toilet....

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

12/04/12 6:28:09 PM#59

Seems i came into this conversation far to late.

 

The way i will compare depth will be based off builds themselves. of course TSW will win because of customizeablility but its not my main focus.

 

The reason i prefer TSW is because set up correctly its almost like a chain of abilities going off.

My original Build was simply timing my blows correctly so that my biggest attacks were always going to autocrit. Worked quite well for me in fact until i got to the later nightmares. there is a passive that every 6th hit autocrits, I would mix that with something that boosts my crit chance upon crit, once i got my first crit off it would continue boosting it until its maxed. because of that i didnt put any points to Crit Chance only crit damage. Even if i wasnt critting regularly my auto crits still made my big hits spike my DPS meter. Then with Penetration since it happened more often i threw a little bit extra points into Pen chance and allowed it to build naturally with another passive.

Everything else just straight out boosted damage.

 

Can combat look like this in GW2?

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 436

12/04/12 6:31:45 PM#60
Originally posted by Rayshe

Seems i came into this conversation far to late.

 

The way i will compare depth will be based off builds themselves. of course TSW will win because of customizeablility but its not my main focus.

 

The reason i prefer TSW is because set up correctly its almost like a chain of abilities going off.

My original Build was simply timing my blows correctly so that my biggest attacks were always going to autocrit. Worked quite well for me in fact until i got to the later nightmares. there is a passive that every 6th hit autocrits, I would mix that with something that boosts my crit chance upon crit, once i got my first crit off it would continue boosting it until its maxed. because of that i didnt put any points to Crit Chance only crit damage. Even if i wasnt critting regularly my auto crits still made my big hits spike my DPS meter. Then with Penetration since it happened more often i threw a little bit extra points into Pen chance and allowed it to build naturally with another passive.

Everything else just straight out boosted damage.

 

Can combat look like this in GW2?

Im not sure what you are talking about? but from what you and others say.. its really difficult to compare the two... gw2 is less about  obtaining skills than it is about player skills.. whereas tsw is mostly about the skills you can acquire..

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