Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn

can say that you are "hating" now?  because like me,  you also now say it lacks depth.

it wasn't ur statement itself.. that would be called hating.... i was refering to the way you went about it...  no discussion at all.. ppl say the forums are for discussion and everyone has a right to their opinion... i'm all for that.. but when you say.. this sucks.. or no depth and leave.. ur not really discussing the game or its mechanics... its more like criticism for criticism's sake.

well you didn't read my initial post and are now putting words in my mouth.  i never said "this sucks".  i stated how it's a percieved depth.  and how it was just traditional combat aside from combo fields and movement.  that was all i had to say about it.  as it was pretty self explanitory i didn't feel the need to write more about it.

lol... i didn't mean "you" personally.. i meant ppl in general doing those things.

edit: only the first two lines were about you specifically... the point was how things are done on this forum.. and not you.

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn

Sounds exactly like Enchants in WoW and many other games that add a chance based proc on hit.

Interesting. I thought the complete opposite; combat was very shallow beyond the flare of dodge and weapon switching. 

to each their own

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn

Sounds exactly like Enchants in WoW and many other games that add a chance based proc on hit.

well.. i've never played wow.. and do other games allow you to add a chance to bleed on wpns that wouldn't originally have any chance at all? were u referring to specifically chances to crit or bleed or where u referring to actuall abilities being added to wpns?

Originally posted by Zuvielify

Interesting. I thought the complete opposite; combat was very shallow beyond the flare of dodge and weapon switching. 

 

to each their own

what games have more depth and how?

Originally posted by BadSpock

The combat in GW2 is a lot less faceroll and requires you to pay attention or suffer the consequences - but I wouldn't call that "depth."

There may be more to it on the surface, but I wouldn't call it depth...

Breadth?

I would define "depth" when it refers to combat in a MMO as: complex interactions that happen at multiple layers.

None of the interactions in GW2 are all that complex - most of the time they are fairly obvious, and in terms of layers it's really quite shallow.

Once you go outside the realm of solo play and get into group play is where GW2 - IMO - really falls apart.

 

So what layers can you add to combat in an MMO?

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn

Sounds exactly like Enchants in WoW and many other games that add a chance based proc on hit.

well.. i've never played wow.. and do other games allow you to add a chance to bleed on wpns that wouldn't originally have any chance at all? were u referring to specifically chances to crit or bleed or where u referring to actuall abilities being added to wpns?

TSW allows you to build your abilities as you wish and save up to 10 versions there of. The only limit is your creativity.

Originally posted by TalulaRose

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn

Sounds exactly like Enchants in WoW and many other games that add a chance based proc on hit.

well.. i've never played wow.. and do other games allow you to add a chance to bleed on wpns that wouldn't originally have any chance at all? were u referring to specifically chances to crit or bleed or where u referring to actuall abilities being added to wpns?

TSW allows you to build your abilities as you wish and save up to 10 versions there of. The only limit is your creativity.

what do you mean build?

Originally posted by muffins89
it's percieved depth.  gw2 combat is pretty shallow.  aside from combo's with other players it's standard themepark combat.  with movement.  oh,  and dodge. 

Gimme a break..."percieved depth"?really?? What will they come up with next...

Originally posted by Mardukk

I really like GW2's combat and it is definitely the highlight of the game.  I figured that things would get even more difficult as I leveled up but I'm finding it actually getting easier (max toon is 65 at this time).  I'm at the point now that I don't even have to dodge much anymore if it's only one or two mobs.  Hell, I can watch TV and click skills if I'm feeling lazy.  This is all PvE talk of course.

Maybe if your max toon is 65 and playing in a lvl 40 zone or something. This is also dependent on class of course and all sorts of other factors. Definitely won't be feeling this way in Orr or the newer Karka zone :P On the other hand, one or two mobs has never been a challenge, 2 vets or 1 vet 4 mobs or 5-6 mobs is the challenge.

Originally posted by BadSpock

The combat in GW2 is a lot less faceroll and requires you to pay attention or suffer the consequences - but I wouldn't call that "depth."

There may be more to it on the surface, but I wouldn't call it depth...

Breadth?

I would define "depth" when it refers to combat in a MMO as: complex interactions that happen at multiple layers.

None of the interactions in GW2 are all that complex - most of the time they are fairly obvious, and in terms of layers it's really quite shallow.

Once you go outside the realm of solo play and get into group play is where GW2 - IMO - really falls apart.

Rather obvious - the term obvious depending greatly on the user, but all sorts of folks continue to evade combo fields :) and half as many still stand in one place and attack. Fight a champ giant, and for some reason multiple people will not get the dodge down, others go in and rez those folks and then they go down etc. And classes like Necro, that can transfer allies conditions to enemies are something folks who don't play that class seem to not know.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by muffins89
it's percieved depth.  gw2 combat is pretty shallow.  aside from combo's with other players it's standard themepark combat.  with movement.  oh,  and dodge. 

Gimme a break..."percieved depth"?really?? What will they come up with next...

see Muffins89... I'm not the only one who took your statement the wrong way... when I first read it.. it seemed like an attack.. but after your follow up posts.. i realized it wasn't.

Originally posted by Eluldor

Originally posted by Mardukk

I really like GW2's combat and it is definitely the highlight of the game.  I figured that things would get even more difficult as I leveled up but I'm finding it actually getting easier (max toon is 65 at this time).  I'm at the point now that I don't even have to dodge much anymore if it's only one or two mobs.  Hell, I can watch TV and click skills if I'm feeling lazy.  This is all PvE talk of course.

Maybe if your max toon is 65 and playing in a lvl 40 zone or something. This is also dependent on class of course and all sorts of other factors. Definitely won't be feeling this way in Orr or the newer Karka zone :P On the other hand, one or two mobs has never been a challenge, 2 vets or 1 vet 4 mobs or 5-6 mobs is the challenge.

Originally posted by BadSpock

The combat in GW2 is a lot less faceroll and requires you to pay attention or suffer the consequences - but I wouldn't call that "depth."

There may be more to it on the surface, but I wouldn't call it depth...

Breadth?

I would define "depth" when it refers to combat in a MMO as: complex interactions that happen at multiple layers.

None of the interactions in GW2 are all that complex - most of the time they are fairly obvious, and in terms of layers it's really quite shallow.

Once you go outside the realm of solo play and get into group play is where GW2 - IMO - really falls apart.

Rather obvious - the term obvious depending greatly on the user, but all sorts of folks continue to evade combo fields :) and half as many still stand in one place and attack. Fight a champ giant, and for some reason multiple people will not get the dodge down, others go in and rez those folks and then they go down etc. And classes like Necro, that can transfer allies conditions to enemies are something folks who don't play that class seem to not know.

 

when compared to consoles... mmo's will always fall short in the combat department....but I feel like gw2 has come a long way in making combat more interactive and not point and click... some don't like it... but as a guy who wants to play mmo's when he retires for social interaction and mental stimulation... i find this to be overall better than the point and click method.. as someone said in another post.. after playing gw2 it makes it difficult to go back to the other types of mmo combat.

Depth can come in different forms.  Maybe it's how you gain abilities or how you configure your skills and attributes in a game.  Maybe it's the actions you take in combat and the need to counter certain enemy skills.

I know one thing, after playing games with active dodging, games without it feel very simplistic and static by comparison no matter what other depth they have to their combat mechanics.

I'm also still waiting to hear from spock and others that are inferring that GW2 combat is somehow lacks depth by comparison to other mmos, what depth of combat is and some examples.  I really don't see it yet.

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by muffins89
it's percieved depth.  gw2 combat is pretty shallow.  aside from combo's with other players it's standard themepark combat.  with movement.  oh,  and dodge. 

Gimme a break..."percieved depth"?really?? What will they come up with next...

see Muffins89... I'm not the only one who took your statement the wrong way... when I first read it.. it seemed like an attack.. but after your follow up posts.. i realized it wasn't.

It's not wether or not it's an "attack" but that it's unfounded and I disagree. GW2 combat is now shallow...in what way exactly?

Originally posted by hikaru77
AoC Combat was depth, and hard. GW2 is just casual and more like a console game than a MMO. 

How was AoC combat deep and hard?  Was it hard because you had to do stupid finger juggles over the keyboard?  That's not deep and poor user input controls aren't a good reason to call combat hard.

AoC combat always felt sluggish to me.  The fatalities, while looking cool, again made the combat feel unresponsive.  I guess it maybe depends on what class you played.  I played a Conqy.

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by TalulaRose

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn

Sounds exactly like Enchants in WoW and many other games that add a chance based proc on hit.

well.. i've never played wow.. and do other games allow you to add a chance to bleed on wpns that wouldn't originally have any chance at all? were u referring to specifically chances to crit or bleed or where u referring to actuall abilities being added to wpns?

TSW allows you to build your abilities as you wish and save up to 10 versions there of. The only limit is your creativity.

what do you mean build?

9 weapons

Each weapon has 56 abilities (combo of active and passive abilities) 

3 miscellaneous groups each with 7 abilities.

Your character gets 7 active and 7 passive ability slots.

Any of the above mentioned abilities can be slotted into your avtive/passive ability bar.

Your character profile has a section called gear management that saves what you are wearing and what abilities you have chosen at the time. There are as of right now 20 gear management slots.

Ergo....you can have 20 different variations or what I refer to as builds.

Then there are 2 auxillery weapones that have 7 abilities each and can be accessed by 1 active/passive ability slot.

Then there are signets that have many many different abilites that can be slotted into your weapons and gear that also allow you to tweak the build even more.

Originally posted by Mad+Dog
[mod edit]

Biggest boost wins?? I'm lost...

Originally posted by TalulaRose

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by TalulaRose

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
I can agree with that... its not deep at all.. it is fairly shallow. but that is what the combat is meant to be like. when the focus is your ability to react and pay attention.. its not surpising that the combat doesn't have much tactics... its not meant to. the tactics in gw2 is about how u build ur char to meet ur playstyle and not about the combat itself... like i said before.. if i'm using a shield and axe warrior with very little condition dmg.. i add either a bleed rune or a skill rune for fire aoe on crit to add condition.. that is tactics and depth.. i've never seen a game other than gw2 where u can add a skill by adding a rune to a wpn

Sounds exactly like Enchants in WoW and many other games that add a chance based proc on hit.

well.. i've never played wow.. and do other games allow you to add a chance to bleed on wpns that wouldn't originally have any chance at all? were u referring to specifically chances to crit or bleed or where u referring to actuall abilities being added to wpns?

TSW allows you to build your abilities as you wish and save up to 10 versions there of. The only limit is your creativity.

what do you mean build?

9 weapons

Each weapon has 56 abilities (combo of active and passive abilities) 

3 miscellaneous groups each with 7 abilities.

 

Your character gets 7 active and 7 passive ability slots.

Any of the above mentioned abilities can be slotted into your avtive/passive ability bar.

 

Your character profile has a section called gear management that saves what you are wearing and what abilities you have chosen at the time. There are as of right now 20 gear management slots.

 

Ergo....you can have 20 different variations or what I refer to as builds.

 

Then there are 2 auxillery weapones that have 7 abilities each and can be access by 1 active/passive ability slot.

 

Then there are signets that have many many different abilites that can be slotted into your weapons and gear that also allow you to tweak the build even more.

 

I actually like TSW's skill setup, it's like GW1 on steroids. The combat itself I don't like to much and unfortunately that system is pretty bad to balance in pvp so I'm ultimately happy they didn't do it in GW2.