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World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » Every time I come back, I find it more difficult to even play.

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21 posts found
  adam_nox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2052

 
OP  12/04/12 11:52:16 AM#1

It's strange really.  They dumbed down the talent system so there's very little thinking or customization involved until you are very high level, and even then only a few choices for things that would impact you on a passive and tactical level (IE this takes brains and planning not button mashing skills)

 

And then, they just pile on a lot of new active abilities, that you don't even have room for on your third or fourth skillbar, let alone figuring out how to hotkey it, or if you dare try mouseclicking, which both retards your reaction time and causes your eyes to stare at skill icons rather than the action on the screen.

 

To me that's backwards.  At least for what I've always found fun, and that was something closer to Diablo 2, where you have a handful of active skills, and about fifteen different ways to build your character through point allocation.  Save the debates about diablo 2 and cookie cutters and all that.  It's old and no one cares, least of all me.

 

As a rogue, I feel I'm supposed to be juggling rupture, slice and dice, envenom, and the HoT for finishers without letting any of them run out, all while trying to ensure I make proper use of mutilate or dispatch, throwing gouge in to get energy back.   My eyes dart to my health, my enemies health, to their combo points, back down to my skills to see if kidney punch or gouge is off cooldown, back up again.  

 

Do people really still enjoy this?  All while my character outside of flailing arms, is motionless, because almost all 1v1 PvE is stand-and-bang rockem sockem simon-sez fests.

 

Bliz, go the other way.  Instead of having people resort to bizarre macro configurations and addons to do their work for them, make all those fancy abilities you love so much be contextual.  Combine them so there's maybe 4 regular use attacks/abilities, and 6 situationals.  For example, the rogue needs only one or two finishers.  One of which would do any of the offensive finishers based on the rogue's spec, and do the finishing rotation for them.  Regular attacks like mutilate would turn into a dispatch when it was up, etc. 

 

It doesn't matter if it's only 90% as optimal as deciding 'hey I should refresh that now instead of switching to slice and dice', it would make the game fun again without making people feel weak for not using every skill perfectly on bars taking up half the screen space.

 

Then go ahead and keep your strange talent system, but bring back talent trees IN ADDITION to them.

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2194

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

12/04/12 7:02:42 PM#2
But something keeps bringing you back.......
  Rayshe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

12/04/12 7:05:38 PM#3

Its the reason i stopped after cata, When cata was released they made content difficult until the crying began.  then they returned to making things way to simple.

 

This lands WoW under my "fool me once" catagory. Its never being put back on my computer.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  cunro

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/05
Posts: 22

12/05/12 7:15:12 AM#4
So you're basically suggesting to dumb down the skills as well? Go play GW2 or something? The game is already being dumbed down and casualized in every aspect (talents the most obvious this expansion) so no ty.
  Kanester

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/08/10
Posts: 348

12/05/12 7:23:05 AM#5
Been in and out of wow for years. Raiding was what made me play so much, i loved it wiping all night and not even killing a boss then getting closer and closer then getting him down. The joy, loved it.

Looking for raid has completely ruined the game for me, it means i can do raids just like 5 man instances. People get carried along without doing any research on bosses then get tier items. Running through a raid for 30mins downing everthing is not raiding, doing normal after you have seen all the content already on easy mode just kills it for me.

  outfctrl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/03
Posts: 3630

American by Birth
Biker by choice
Patriot forever

12/05/12 7:28:15 AM#6
I am enjoying it.  Then again, I only play a few hours a day.  Level 86.75 on my Orc Hunter. The revamp of the talent tree made the game easier to play for a casual gamer.

  sr7olsniper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/09
Posts: 216

12/05/12 7:35:43 AM#7
Originally posted by Kanester
Been in and out of wow for years. Raiding was what made me play so much, i loved it wiping all night and not even killing a boss then getting closer and closer then getting him down. The joy, loved it.

Looking for raid has completely ruined the game for me, it means i can do raids just like 5 man instances. People get carried along without doing any research on bosses then get tier items. Running through a raid for 30mins downing everthing is not raiding, doing normal after you have seen all the content already on easy mode just kills it for me.

 

LFR is not for you, it is designed for people that don't or can't commit to a raiding team. If what you said about raiding and your enjoyment of it is true, then I have no idea what you are doing in LFR.

At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  Cod_Eye

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1008

12/05/12 7:37:16 AM#8
WoW will never be the same game you player those years ago.  If you quit back then because you didnt like the road it was going down <insert other reason here>, then you are very unlikely to have that passion back once you return.  Just uninstall the thing and delete from hard drive, your soul will be saved.
  Kanester

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/08/10
Posts: 348

12/05/12 2:00:06 PM#9
Originally posted by sr7olsniper
Originally posted by Kanester
Been in and out of wow for years. Raiding was what made me play so much, i loved it wiping all night and not even killing a boss then getting closer and closer then getting him down. The joy, loved it.

Looking for raid has completely ruined the game for me, it means i can do raids just like 5 man instances. People get carried along without doing any research on bosses then get tier items. Running through a raid for 30mins downing everthing is not raiding, doing normal after you have seen all the content already on easy mode just kills it for me.

 

LFR is not for you, it is designed for people that don't or can't commit to a raiding team. If what you said about raiding and your enjoyment of it is true, then I have no idea what you are doing in LFR.

 

Blizzard said we didn't have to do LFR to progress, They are right we don't have to but you will be way behind everyone else if you don't do LFR. Tier gear is handed out to anyone who can click a button and join a que, It's just wrong.

  dimnikar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 277

12/06/12 3:24:36 AM#10

I love it for exactly these reasons.

 

You seem to be confused, however; on one hand, you claim it got too simple (talents), but too complex (number of skills). I know what you tried to say, but this doesn't add up any way you look at it.

 

I hate the talent system. It's crap. But that only matters the 1 time you spec your char.

 

The rest of the time, the sheer number of skills, knowing which ones to bind to the most useful keys, when to use them, etc is what makes this game light years beyond it's modern contemporaries.

It's just fun for me.

P.S.: rogue? Rogue was much harder to play in terms of keeping track of dots, hots and selfbuffs in PVE in previous expansions. It's nothing now. Or druid, feral dps druid was a NIGHTMARE to stay on top of everything. Now it's perhaps too simple...

http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615

  dimnikar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 277

12/06/12 3:27:25 AM#11

luckily (for blizzard), wow is so mainstream now, hardcore player opinions really don't matter for shit anymore.

 

 

http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615

  Goll25

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/19/10
Posts: 187

12/08/12 10:56:53 PM#12

I play a rogue, I too have this juggle. Thats where the complexity of WoW is. You need to know when to use what, and how to manage the abudance of skills. You can also pick and choose how you use them or if you use them! Spec assassination, it's easy! In PvP litteraly open up with an ambush/cheapshot build full combos and rupture, then a 5 point slice and dice, and envenom till you need to rupture again! From there use your cc's when needed and your defensive abilities.

Blizz already dumbed down the talent system and have gotten backlash, no need to dumb down abilities. Which haven't grown that much in span at all, just more utilities which are situation/optional. Also I'd rather have more abilities then point allocation. I have played both types of games, and the abundance of abilities makes the combat way more fun then adding points too your say 4 skills.

  slickbizzle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/11
Posts: 450

12/09/12 1:47:16 PM#13
I just finished the 10 day trial.  It felt like the same old-same old routine to me and I couldn't get into it.  Could be because I'm enjoying GW2 and only did the trial because my brother kept hyping up MoP. Or, I could still be burnt out on Warcraft.  
  MurlockDance

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1195

12/10/12 12:23:52 PM#14
Originally posted by dimnikar

I love it for exactly these reasons.

 

You seem to be confused, however; on one hand, you claim it got too simple (talents), but too complex (number of skills). I know what you tried to say, but this doesn't add up any way you look at it.

 

I hate the talent system. It's crap. But that only matters the 1 time you spec your char.

 

The rest of the time, the sheer number of skills, knowing which ones to bind to the most useful keys, when to use them, etc is what makes this game light years beyond it's modern contemporaries.

It's just fun for me.

P.S.: rogue? Rogue was much harder to play in terms of keeping track of dots, hots and selfbuffs in PVE in previous expansions. It's nothing now. Or druid, feral dps druid was a NIGHTMARE to stay on top of everything. Now it's perhaps too simple...

Yeah, agreed. That is what the OP seems to be saying: too easy yet too complex; not enough talents, too many skills. So which is it? It is odd to complain that the talents don't give you skills and yet the skills are too numerous.

I am finding with my dps monk that there are a few primary skills I use almost all of the time, but in certain situations other skills are better. I actually love the reactional nature of the class: it reminds me a lot of warriors too and was something I have always like about them.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  darkhalf357x

Elite Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1089

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

12/16/12 8:41:22 PM#15
Im new to WoW.  I happen to like this 'complexity' with 'simplicity'.  Its easy to understand how to play the game, but requires a (serious) investment to master it.  Plus all the achievements makes it a fun time sink.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3714

RIP City of Heroes!

12/16/12 8:45:35 PM#16
Originally posted by MurlockDance
Originally posted by dimnikar

I love it for exactly these reasons.

 

You seem to be confused, however; on one hand, you claim it got too simple (talents), but too complex (number of skills). I know what you tried to say, but this doesn't add up any way you look at it.

 

I hate the talent system. It's crap. But that only matters the 1 time you spec your char.

 

The rest of the time, the sheer number of skills, knowing which ones to bind to the most useful keys, when to use them, etc is what makes this game light years beyond it's modern contemporaries.

It's just fun for me.

P.S.: rogue? Rogue was much harder to play in terms of keeping track of dots, hots and selfbuffs in PVE in previous expansions. It's nothing now. Or druid, feral dps druid was a NIGHTMARE to stay on top of everything. Now it's perhaps too simple...

Yeah, agreed. That is what the OP seems to be saying: too easy yet too complex; not enough talents, too many skills. So which is it? It is odd to complain that the talents don't give you skills and yet the skills are too numerous.

I am finding with my dps monk that there are a few primary skills I use almost all of the time, but in certain situations other skills are better. I actually love the reactional nature of the class: it reminds me a lot of warriors too and was something I have always like about them.

 It seems clear to me what he wrote.

  Imperator101

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/12
Posts: 134

12/16/12 8:50:51 PM#17
Can't you change difficulty for raids to make it harder?

  Goll25

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/19/10
Posts: 187

12/16/12 8:58:47 PM#18
Originally posted by Imperator101
Can't you change difficulty for raids to make it harder?

There is a bunch of difficulties/sizes for the raids. 25 man Looking for Raid (complete water downed to tank and spank, to keep casual pve players happy, It's a dungeon finder system for raids) 10 man, 10 man heroic, 25 man, 25 man heroic. All have there own mechanics and other things that help difficulty. In total there is 5 difficulties.

  Volkmar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2507

12/17/12 5:55:55 AM#19

I applaud the OP for being one of the first to deem WoW too complex.

This specifically goes completely against the popular opinion on this site that WoW is for kiddies, easy mode etc.

I believe there are 2 ways we have seen so far in MMOs about complexity, some of the "too easy" threads might come to a misunderstanding of these 2 ways.

 

The 2 way are the Build Way and the 40-skills way. The Build Way is what we see in games like The Secret World, Guild Wars 2 or even Diablo 3. Your character can use only a limited amount of skills at once, but you make your "build" out of many more possibilities.

This lead to chars relatively easy to play, but the complexity lies in finding a good synergy between the various possibilities and understanding how to use such skills well. As each skill constitute a big % of your total skills, it must be used well or your gameplay will suffer. Basically, your work in making and understanding a build is more important than the actual gameplay, albeit that also play a part so that 2 players with same build might differ in how good they play, but much less than if 2 players have different build, one bad and one good.

The second way is the 40-skill way which WoW, EQ, DaoC, WAR and many other games like those have used for many years now. In this way, the idea is that while you have some customization options, they are limited when compared to the build way. Instead, the complexity is in understanding how each skill is used and in the actual gameplay. Basically, your ability to play the class is more important than your customization choices as each of these choice have been somewhat balanced to be competitive or finding a working template is quite easy.

Both systems have room for player improvement. in the Build Way, you get better mainly by learning the various build and researching them online. In the 40-skills way you get better mainly with practice.

WoW is and will prolly remain a 40-skills way kind of game. Easy to understand what your role is supposed to be and to pick a theme, but hard to master each class complexity.

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

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  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16476

12/17/12 6:06:43 AM#20
Originally posted by cunro
So you're basically suggesting to dumb down the skills as well? Go play GW2 or something? The game is already being dumbed down and casualized in every aspect (talents the most obvious this expansion) so no ty.

Fewer skills does not make a game "dumber". I played MMOs with loads of skills you rotate without much thinking, not more fun at all.

I have to agree with OP, they should have made the skills fewer and instead made the talent system a lot more advanced instead.

Skill wise is still Guildwars (1 in this case) my favorite, you dont have many skills at the same time but you handpick each of them so you can make your own build and you have to make sure each skill counts.

Make timing more important so exactly when you click your skill matters to get rid of the old boring skill rotation that have plauged most MMOs since M59.

I like character customization so my character isnt exactly the same as everyone else from the same class.

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