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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » This is what EVE should have been like

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76 posts found
  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1806

12/27/12 7:30:58 AM#41
Originally posted by Gdemami

Without a decent budget(30-80M), small team can only deliver sub-par product. MMOs are too expensive to make. Simple math.

I'm pretty certain EVE was created with far less budget than 30M USD.

 

  Garkan

Gurista

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 544

Thug, Thief, Killer, Pirate

12/27/12 7:34:33 AM#42
Originally posted by Gdemami

False appeal to authority.

Project matters, not the one who is pulling it off.

If I still had to base on authority, I would say it is those "old-school" devs that have the best chance to fail because how detached they are with current MMO market and it's customer base. Same as "hardcore" fans on these boards and games that are stuck in the past, unable to adapt and accept changes.

 

Rubbish, imagine yourself working in a HR department. You have two candidates, both have good CVs and both seem a good fit for the working enviroment. One of the however has a significant amount of refferances showing he has succsessfully completed several projects in the past. Which one would you employ?

Saying past experiance doesnt matter is absurd, no other word for it. Both of those designers defined the space genre in the 90s, with the current tech and resources available they should be able to come up with something amazing.

Currently playing:

EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

12/27/12 7:43:39 AM#43


Originally posted by tom_gore

I'm pretty certain EVE was created with far less budget than 30M USD.
 

Also a decade ago and exception.

See, the one that are stuck in the past I talked about :)


Originally posted by tom_gore

You have two candidates, both have good CVs and both seem a good fit for the working enviroment. One of the however has a significant amount of refferances showing he has succsessfully completed several projects in the past. Which one would you employ?

None. CV means next to nothing for management position. It is the mind that matters, not the experience.

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2076

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

12/27/12 7:45:29 AM#44

The "appeal to authority" logical fallacy is about something different.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-authority/

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

12/27/12 7:53:58 AM#45
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

time for EvE to bring in some avatar based gameplay, walking in stations,...

Otherwise SC and Elite will drain a good part of the playerbase

Will never happen now. The captain's quarters was the first step on a long road to a truly immersive experience; unfortunately the perpetually myopic playerbase (and CCP's misguided attempt at a cash shop) built a wall right across the planned construction site. They're happy with their 'click orbit and pew pew pew' spaceship game, CCP's vision and all others be damned.

Sadly, looks like Elite: Dangerous won't reach its funding goal. Ah well, at least there's Star Citizen to look forward to in a few years.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/27/12 7:55:06 AM#46
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

time for EvE to bring in some avatar based gameplay, walking in stations,...

Otherwise SC and Elite will drain a good part of the playerbase

This!!

10chars

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

12/27/12 8:14:53 AM#47
Originally posted by Lobotomist

People that allready like and play EVE dont think nothing should be added.

Granted , that is fine.

But what about many others that tried and found EVE missing the other part - AI computer controlled part ?

 

Granted EVE should not be like ELITE (Although for your information EVE was based on ELITE)

When infact EVE could be much more - It could have what EVE has and than also what ELITE has.

Yes , you could have that burger and fries too ... and milkshake.

But you guys are like : Let burger be burger , and let other resturant serve milkshakes.

 

I see it simple as this : Game better -> more players playing = everyone profits

No one said nothing should be added to EVE. You said EVE should have been like this particular game and they said, "No, EVE should be like EVE." Did you misunderstand or did you actually think this crowd would fall for that old trick?

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1806

12/27/12 8:18:23 AM#48
Originally posted by Rednecksith
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

time for EvE to bring in some avatar based gameplay, walking in stations,...

Otherwise SC and Elite will drain a good part of the playerbase

Will never happen now. The captain's quarters was the first step on a long road to a truly immersive experience; unfortunately the perpetually myopic playerbase (and CCP's misguided attempt at a cash shop) built a wall right across the planned construction site. They're happy with their 'click orbit and pew pew pew' spaceship game, CCP's vision and all others be damned.

Sadly, looks like Elite: Dangerous won't reach its funding goal. Ah well, at least there's Star Citizen to look forward to in a few years.

8 days to go, I'd say it will reach the goal for sure.

 

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1806

12/27/12 8:21:39 AM#49
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by tom_gore

I'm pretty certain EVE was created with far less budget than 30M USD.
 

 

Also a decade ago and exception.

See, the one that are stuck in the past I talked about :)

 

 

Exceptions happen every decade. Minecraft also started small and I don't know if it's developement budget still has surpassed 30M.

Roberts and Braben are no idiots. They know they cannot build a game with all the bells and whistles with the fundraising money. They either need to seek additional funding or start small. Personally, I would go for the latter as then they would be able to get direct player feedback early on the game and also immensely reduce the risk of building something big and having it fall flat on it's face at launch.

 

  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

12/27/12 8:32:57 AM#50
Originally posted by Rednecksith
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

time for EvE to bring in some avatar based gameplay, walking in stations,...

Otherwise SC and Elite will drain a good part of the playerbase

Will never happen now. The captain's quarters was the first step on a long road to a truly immersive experience; unfortunately the perpetually myopic playerbase (and CCP's misguided attempt at a cash shop) built a wall right across the planned construction site. They're happy with their 'click orbit and pew pew pew' spaceship game, CCP's vision and all others be damned.

Sadly, looks like Elite: Dangerous won't reach its funding goal. Ah well, at least there's Star Citizen to look forward to in a few years.

The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself, and that would inevitably drain resources away from the space side of the game, which is what people are concerned about. CCP simply doesn't have the resources right now to pull it off wihout harming their existing product, and they've been wise enough to realize this. I for one would enjoy some avatar based gameplay, but until they can make it happen in a way that doesn't hurt the existing game, I'd rather it stay shelved.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

12/27/12 8:38:59 AM#51


Originally posted by tom_gore

Personally, I would go for the latter
 

Starting small means releasing sub-par product, something utterly stupid on highly competitive and saturated market such as MMO market...

I guess you could release such game and get 1-2k subs(or equal revenue) but that won't get you far nor provide much opportunity to expand your business.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5514

12/27/12 8:41:01 AM#52
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Lobotomist

People that allready like and play EVE dont think nothing should be added.

Granted , that is fine.

But what about many others that tried and found EVE missing the other part - AI computer controlled part ?

 

Granted EVE should not be like ELITE (Although for your information EVE was based on ELITE)

When infact EVE could be much more - It could have what EVE has and than also what ELITE has.

Yes , you could have that burger and fries too ... and milkshake.

But you guys are like : Let burger be burger , and let other resturant serve milkshakes.

 

I see it simple as this : Game better -> more players playing = everyone profits

No one said nothing should be added to EVE. You said EVE should have been like this particular game and they said, "No, EVE should be like EVE." Did you misunderstand or did you actually think this crowd would fall for that old trick?

 

 

  i watched the video, and yeah, good luck with that kind of thing.. but.. Eve should have been like that, is avoiding the huge and incontrovertible fact that Eve is how the players have made it, if we'd wanted something more like elite dangerous then somehow i think it would have ended up developing along those lines as time progressed and the game evolved. It didnt so the OP's opening statement is clearly ignoring Eves own history. Eve is the game it is today because of the players.

  Garkan

Gurista

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 544

Thug, Thief, Killer, Pirate

12/27/12 8:42:53 AM#53
Originally posted by Gdemami
Originally posted by tom_gore

You have two candidates, both have good CVs and both seem a good fit for the working enviroment. One of the however has a significant amount of refferances showing he has succsessfully completed several projects in the past. Which one would you employ?


 

None. CV means next to nothing for management position. It is the mind that matters, not the experience.

 

-Picardfacepalm.jpg-

Exactly, the mind matters. Verifiable proof of experience shows the person has a mind suited for the project. Other than references and CVs how else are you supposed to know if a person is likely to be capable of completing a project? Personally I find telepathy and tarot cards to be fairly unreliable, you might have had better results though

Currently playing:

EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1806

12/27/12 9:00:23 AM#54
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by tom_gore

Personally, I would go for the latter
 

 

Starting small means releasing sub-par product, something utterly stupid on highly competitive and saturated market such as MMO market...

I guess you could release such game and get 1-2k subs(or equal revenue) but that won't get you far nor provide much opportunity to expand your business.

Are we still talking about Elite and SC? I thought we were, because that's what this topic is about.

SC has already almost 100k "subscribers" in the form of people who have pledged for the game. There is no information on the possible sub model anyway, so there might even not be one. Also, they will be releasing the single player game first, which, if anything like Wing Commander, will sell quite a bucketload of copies and bring in more developement money.

The MMO part, when released, will be golden if there will be even a fraction of the features planned. Can you name me the other space MMO games with space sim like combat? Yeah... highly competitive and saturated indeed. If EVE would be directly competing with all MMOs in the market it would have died years ago.

 

 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

12/27/12 9:12:10 AM#55


Originally posted by Garkan

Verifiable proof of experience shows the person has a mind suited for the project.

It doesn't... At best it provides information that past employer found abilities and experience of the employee sufficient enough to keep the person employed.

That does not tell you much, everyone has different standards and requirements and fancy phrases and labels might represent just anything.

ie. door-to-door salesperson is called Regional marketing and sales manager these days..


The mindset, personality, abilities and skills of applicant aren't represented in CV.

There are various methods to determine those - all sort of psychological profiling, assessments, questionnaires, and other crap is fashionable these days. I have even seen graphology being used in recruitment process.

What I personally believe in and I did myself when recruiting lower management staff is old fashioned interview that included homework and scenarios.

  mklinic

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/05
Posts: 1452

12/27/12 9:27:56 AM#56
Originally posted by sunshadow21

The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself...

Sort of like World of Darkness? :P

-mklinic

"There's a point I think we're missing.
It's in the air we raise our fists in."
-from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  User Deleted
12/27/12 9:38:28 AM#57

It really depends upon the industry and level of management/position being discussed.

 

For a general rule of thumb, for general lower level management positions, it's fairly safe to say that CV/track record gets people through an inital preliminary vetting process and not much more. i.e. it weeds out total no hopers.

 

The vast majority of the time, performance in multiple interviews/role play sessions and in various aptitude tests (as well as just "fitting in") is what gets someone the job.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

12/27/12 9:58:23 AM#58


Originally posted by tom_gore

Are we still talking about Elite and SC? 


Yes, the drawing board and water based promises but you do not seem to make a difference between those and actual released game...

  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

12/27/12 2:42:24 PM#59
Originally posted by mklinic
Originally posted by sunshadow21

The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself...

Sort of like World of Darkness? :P

Basically, yes. And since they are already working on World of Darkness, it makes no sense to try to have a duplicate team doing the same thing for EVE. Once World of Darkness has been released, then porting the code over to EVE, and coming up with the other necessary elements,  with the help of the people no longer needed to build World of Darkness becomes much, much easier and more viable. Until then, it makes no sense of CCP to put that much effort on an aspect of EVE that is not a core part of the game.

  mklinic

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/05
Posts: 1452

12/27/12 6:30:24 PM#60
Originally posted by sunshadow21
Originally posted by mklinic
Originally posted by sunshadow21

The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself...

Sort of like World of Darkness? :P

Basically, yes. And since they are already working on World of Darkness, it makes no sense to try to have a duplicate team doing the same thing for EVE. Once World of Darkness has been released, then porting the code over to EVE, and coming up with the other necessary elements,  with the help of the people no longer needed to build World of Darkness becomes much, much easier and more viable. Until then, it makes no sense of CCP to put that much effort on an aspect of EVE that is not a core part of the game.

I was just poking fun, and not to get too far on a tengent, but my initial understanding was that ambulation/wis/incarna/etc was using the WoD engine. So, if that is accurate, the investment required to port would be less then a full seperate team with resources being shareable between games/teams.

Regardless of the specifics though, yeah...I was excited for the whole walking-in-stations thing and felt pretty underwhelmed by the delivery. That's just my opinion though and mileage may vary. Despite my anticipation/excitement, post-delivery I'm perfectly ok with the feature being a low priority in their development plans.

To the original topic (sort of), I do like that EvE tries to add new aspects to the game be it walking in stations, the scanning revamp, incursions and various other features that have met with differing levels of success. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that. If features from other games make sense, then sure, but all means put them through some critical review and see if they fit the EvE universe. If not, discard and move on.

-mklinic

"There's a point I think we're missing.
It's in the air we raise our fists in."
-from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

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