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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » How the Developers are out of touch.....

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124 posts found
  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1008

12/06/12 7:02:07 PM#21

Yeah I agree with several others here. I get a GW2 vibe from a lot of what they say. I really do not get a Elder Scrolls vibe from anything beyond the setting of the game.

Most of the things that draw me to Elder Scrolls games and suck up hundreds of my hours.. Do not appear to exist in this title. 

When you start mashing in things like class based gameplay, group oriented dungeons, pvp areas... None of that is ES at all and all of it has already been done many times. 

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

12/07/12 11:58:32 PM#22
Originally posted by Landon68

You are arguing out of an PVP point of view, and probaly you are right in this regard.

 

I'm not so sure if this is also true for ppl who can't care for PVP.

 

Additional if the server transfers would be free of charge, or a service which is covered with the subscription fee you could w/o problem move the server to your friends.

I think similry like you, small servers where you know most of the ppl and where your reputation is based on other ppl is a good thing. thats why so many assholes are around when you have cross servers. In the beginning of wow you couldn't move away and no x-server was available, so ppl who acted like assholes branded them selves. I think that was a good feature what is missing now.

Whether people understand it or not, open seamless worlds create a better gaming experience, some understand why and like it, where some dont understand why but like it.  Lobby gamers and instance gamers dont think it matters because they dont understand why they may have stuck with some games longer than others, they just drift off, but if you ask them about a seamless world verses an instanced one they would tell you they dont care.  But thats the beauty of a well designed addictive game world, most people dont know why they stick around they just like it and do. 

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

12/08/12 6:29:00 AM#23
Originally posted by Jyiiga

Yeah I agree with several others here. I get a GW2 vibe from a lot of what they say. I really do not get a Elder Scrolls vibe from anything beyond the setting of the game.

Most of the things that draw me to Elder Scrolls games and suck up hundreds of my hours.. Do not appear to exist in this title. 

When you start mashing in things like class based gameplay, group oriented dungeons, pvp areas... None of that is ES at all and all of it has already been done many times. 

So an elder scrolls mmo should have no pvp or group content then? Wouldnt that just be TES:VI then tho?

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

12/08/12 6:44:44 AM#24
Originally posted by ZigZags

These are just a few examples of how I believe the Developers are out of touch with what the MMO/TES fans and players are thirsting for in this title. As in all previous TES, we want a non linear OPEN WORLD where we can do what we want when we want. Factions are OK if you allow cross factions to explore the opposing faction's areas. By zone locking us out and funneling us into Cyrodil you are no different than what SWTOR tried to do, what GW2 is doing and failing at and what DAOC did but was never as big as it wanted to be. Zenimax should take lessons from the failures of the past and not make the same mistakes. Take EQ as an example. As a Halfing I could venture to Dark Elf territory and sweat bullets that I wouldn't be detected and KOS. THAT's the kind of feel we want. Not some carebear safety zones with a race to 50 so we can pvp in Cyrodil and definitely not the computer auto scaling my level and gear so I can fight in Cyrodil at lvl 10. That is so carebear and NOT what TES fans are going to pay for long term.

My only issue with your post is that you assume your experiences with games are the same as everyone elses. Just like the devs that you quote make broad assumptions, so do you.

My experience is the opposite of yours. My roleplaying-game friends couldn't give 2 shakes about MMOs. Thus, 2 different sets of gamers to win.

 

In the end, you may be right, but one must be careful when painting with a broad brush.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

12/08/12 6:49:54 AM#25
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Jyiiga

Yeah I agree with several others here. I get a GW2 vibe from a lot of what they say. I really do not get a Elder Scrolls vibe from anything beyond the setting of the game.

Most of the things that draw me to Elder Scrolls games and suck up hundreds of my hours.. Do not appear to exist in this title. 

When you start mashing in things like class based gameplay, group oriented dungeons, pvp areas... None of that is ES at all and all of it has already been done many times. 

So an elder scrolls mmo should have no pvp or group content then? Wouldnt that just be TES:VI then tho?

 

IMO going PvP with this game was a huge mistake and will alienate a lot of the traditional TES audience, who obviously have a lot of love for PvE because thats what has sold the series, and has just been used as a cheap content generator. This game is setting itself up for a classic identity crisis as it is obviously going to struggle to be all things to all men.

They would have been better throwing the PvP dev resource into long term player retention mechanics like housing and player created content I think.

I know the sentiment won't be a popular one amongst the hardcore 'it 'aint a game without PvP' crowd here, but making a PvP game out of a PvE renowned title will bite then in the arse somewhere down the line.

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

12/08/12 6:55:42 AM#26
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Jyiiga

Yeah I agree with several others here. I get a GW2 vibe from a lot of what they say. I really do not get a Elder Scrolls vibe from anything beyond the setting of the game.

Most of the things that draw me to Elder Scrolls games and suck up hundreds of my hours.. Do not appear to exist in this title. 

When you start mashing in things like class based gameplay, group oriented dungeons, pvp areas... None of that is ES at all and all of it has already been done many times. 

So an elder scrolls mmo should have no pvp or group content then? Wouldnt that just be TES:VI then tho?

 

IMO going PvP with this game was a huge mistake and will alienate a lot of the traditional TES audience, who obviously have a lot of love for PvE because thats what has sold the series, and has just been used as a cheap content generator. This game is setting itself up for a classic identity crisis as it is obviously going to struggle to be all things to all men.

They would have been better throwing the PvP dev resource into long term player retention mechanics like housing and player created content I think. The PvP market is oversatured to say the least, while the co-op PvE one remains under served.

I know the sentiment won't be a popular one, but making a PvP game out of a PvE title will bite then in the arse somewhere down the line.

I dont think that will be an issue as they arent making a "pvp game" only cyrodiil will have pvp the rest of the game is pure pve

 

Plus your assuming that most tes players havent played mmo's, online fps', moba's etc, but from my experience most have, so having optional but meaningfull pvp should be a good thing not a bad thing

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

12/08/12 6:55:42 AM#27
Double post
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6822

12/08/12 6:57:51 AM#28


Originally posted by ZigZags

Of the 27 friends on my Steam list that play TES series, all of them play MMO games as well.


They need more than just 27+1 subscriber though...

  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1008

12/08/12 9:30:53 AM#29
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Jyiiga

Yeah I agree with several others here. I get a GW2 vibe from a lot of what they say. I really do not get a Elder Scrolls vibe from anything beyond the setting of the game.

Most of the things that draw me to Elder Scrolls games and suck up hundreds of my hours.. Do not appear to exist in this title. 

When you start mashing in things like class based gameplay, group oriented dungeons, pvp areas... None of that is ES at all and all of it has already been done many times. 

So an elder scrolls mmo should have no pvp or group content then? Wouldnt that just be TES:VI then tho?

After watching that 10 minute trailer that put out for the game I was literally laughing in my chair. Watching scenes where it was taking 5+ people to take down things like a Flame Atronach was just plain silly to me. Dungeons from all the other ES titles were a very special experience.. Creeping through them slowly, watching for traps, stealth takedowns, epic battles against superior odds. Then you watch that video and see people bunny hopping about.. Nothing during those 10 minutes of footage made it look different over anything else we have. It looked just like a WOW/SWTOR dungeon zerg. 

 

If what they have shown us so far.... Is what the game is going to be like.. Its going to be another 2-3 month speed bump title for the majority of the people that play it. 

 

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2151

12/08/12 10:15:34 AM#30
Originally posted by ZigZags 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Fr6VF_1LA at 8:04 This is what GW2 did and is totally stupid and is what happens when you force and funnel people to a PVP area. Rather than giving us an open world we can PVP in at any level which is what we haven't seen in a while and is something I think most of s hunger for. Zenimax is failing hard here.

 

These are just a few examples of how I believe the Developers are out of touch with what the MMO/TES fans and players are thirsting for in this title. As in all previous TES, we want a non linear OPEN WORLD where we can do what we want when we want. Factions are OK if you allow cross factions to explore the opposing faction's areas. By zone locking us out and funneling us into Cyrodil you are no different than what SWTOR tried to do, what GW2 is doing and failing at and what DAOC did but was never as big as it wanted to be. Zenimax should take lessons from the failures of the past and not make the same mistakes. Take EQ as an example. As a Halfing I could venture to Dark Elf territory and sweat bullets that I wouldn't be detected and KOS. THAT's the kind of feel we want. Not some carebear safety zones with a race to 50 so we can pvp in Cyrodil and definitely not the computer auto scaling my level and gear so I can fight in Cyrodil at lvl 10. That is so carebear and NOT what TES fans are going to pay for long term.

once again an FFA PvP fan fails basic comprehension when he decides what the entire mmo community must be salivating for what he has always wanted. which is of course absolutely false.

while i certainly agree with him about the locked out zones, that's where the similarity ends. i dont mind being KOS when i meander into an opposing faction's zone. i do mind being KOS to every 12 year old (and yes there are plenty of 40yr olds who are 12yr olds at heart) with nothing better to do than harass me while i am trying to enjoy a game.

at what point did TES fans all become FFA PVP fans? or hell, even factional pvp fans? the OP might be surprised to learn that socially backwards interpersonal interactions might be the very thing that keeps folks playing TES games and not say ... oh i don't know the few pvp oriented games that have been released in the last decade all of which have failed.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

12/08/12 10:25:43 AM#31
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Jyiiga

Yeah I agree with several others here. I get a GW2 vibe from a lot of what they say. I really do not get a Elder Scrolls vibe from anything beyond the setting of the game.

Most of the things that draw me to Elder Scrolls games and suck up hundreds of my hours.. Do not appear to exist in this title. 

When you start mashing in things like class based gameplay, group oriented dungeons, pvp areas... None of that is ES at all and all of it has already been done many times. 

So an elder scrolls mmo should have no pvp or group content then? Wouldnt that just be TES:VI then tho?

 

IMO going PvP with this game was a huge mistake and will alienate a lot of the traditional TES audience, who obviously have a lot of love for PvE because thats what has sold the series, and has just been used as a cheap content generator. This game is setting itself up for a classic identity crisis as it is obviously going to struggle to be all things to all men.

They would have been better throwing the PvP dev resource into long term player retention mechanics like housing and player created content I think. The PvP market is oversatured to say the least, while the co-op PvE one remains under served.

I know the sentiment won't be a popular one, but making a PvP game out of a PvE title will bite then in the arse somewhere down the line.

I dont think that will be an issue as they arent making a "pvp game" only cyrodiil will have pvp the rest of the game is pure pve

 

Plus your assuming that most tes players havent played mmo's, online fps', moba's etc, but from my experience most have, so having optional but meaningfull pvp should be a good thing not a bad thing

 

The fact is though that PvP will be a massive part of the game, just as it is with something like GW2.

I am not actually assuming what you assume I am assuming (lol)...

I am making the point that a lot of people go to different games for different things, and that many will simply not want PvP in their TES... especially considering that there are a ton of games that already offer that (that a lot of TES players obviously are choosing not to play from looking at it's sales figures vs general PvP focused MMO player figures).

A lot of folks go to TES games, a lot of the time, for something different. I feel that this will lead to an identity crisis for the game as it struggles to keep both camps happy.

We shall see.

  User Deleted
12/10/12 5:40:24 AM#32

The issue with TESO is as with the last three "Big" titles, everything is so "massiv" - and we all know how "massiv" the tiny hub zones of GW2 worked out - "massiv" world what a joke, or how the "massiv" World of SWTOR turned out.

I'm not going to regret writing how "massiv" TESO will turn out. Tiny Themepark like.
Because like the other "out of touch" Developers, these hype diaries love to talk about how massive the geographic "highlights" they covered in a 10 feet square rather than landscapes to play in.


Scaling is the issue, nowdays developers take an imaginary 1000 km landscape, press the two border mountain ranges in it, all in 2 km square and call it "all of Cyrodil".

Everyone here thinking he actually get's landscape worth the size of even just one TES game, oh boy.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/10/12 6:12:17 AM#33
Veasavias is right

TESO will be a more pvp orientated game than say wow. There's a lot of focus on the alliance war. The 2 lead developers come from more pvp orientated games (daoc & uo), as do many of the devs.

I don't think TESO will be your typical raid or die game.
  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6646

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

12/11/12 7:48:07 AM#34
They don't need to bring in the casual mmo player, they already have millions of Elder Scrolls diehards. That is where they will have a problem. Not specifically catering to the Elder scrolls fanbase is a big concern.
  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

12/11/12 7:58:51 AM#35
Originally posted by Normandy7
They don't need to bring in the casual mmo player, they already have millions of Elder Scrolls diehards. That is where they will have a problem. Not specifically catering to the Elder scrolls fanbase is a big concern.

 

You have it the wrong way round imo. There are millions of MMO player's who could not give a feck about lore or if the game is like WOW. Here on mmorpg.com we are not the majority of MMO player's, we do not speak for the masses. Most sensible mmo player's no to stay away from mmorpg.cm and it's one sided promoting of certain games and its jaded mmo gamers. TESO will have no problem surviving even if the majority of their fan base don't play the game.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7009

12/11/12 8:01:11 AM#36
Originally posted by ZigZags

It depends. When more information is out I will make the decision then. But as of today based on what I know, it doesn't look good and I don't want to support the business model of: "Lets make a mediocre game, hype it up and make our profit in the first 3 months so who cares about the quality long term." But I do realize most in the MMO community will continue to support this business model.

You have enough information to say the developers are out of touch, but you don't have enough to decide if you going to play.

 

I think you should cool out a bit, until closer to launch, until someone has played it.

  karmath

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/05
Posts: 841

12/11/12 8:10:31 AM#37
Originally posted by Normandy7
They don't need to bring in the casual mmo player, they already have millions of Elder Scrolls diehards. That is where they will have a problem. Not specifically catering to the Elder scrolls fanbase is a big concern.

This.

They alienated their core fanbase, for the sake of casuals and or people who couldnt care less about the IP and what it stands for.

The whole point of an online TES game is totally missed as to why people actually care about the IP, as the openended gameplay is what the IP is renowned for, take that away and its just yet another fantasy IP.

  DollMighty8313

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 182

".........Me love you long time?"

12/17/12 11:09:52 PM#38
I always have a hard time reading threads like this when players claim to have an answer why they know developers are out of touch.  OP did bring up some legitimate reasons, but they are revolve around the fact that he has had some pretty crappy expereiences in the past.  I haven't had those issues at all.
  DollMighty8313

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 182

".........Me love you long time?"

12/17/12 11:10:48 PM#39
Originally posted by karmath
Originally posted by Normandy7
They don't need to bring in the casual mmo player, they already have millions of Elder Scrolls diehards. That is where they will have a problem. Not specifically catering to the Elder scrolls fanbase is a big concern.

This.

They alienated their core fanbase, for the sake of casuals and or people who couldnt care less about the IP and what it stands for.

The whole point of an online TES game is totally missed as to why people actually care about the IP, as the openended gameplay is what the IP is renowned for, take that away and its just yet another fantasy IP.

There is just certain stuff that one cannot do with an MMO that can be done with a single player game like Oblivion or Skyrim though.  You have to remember that.  

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7009

12/17/12 11:20:31 PM#40
Originally posted by ZigZags

This is what GW2 did and is totally stupid and is what happens when you force and funnel people to a PVP area. Rather than giving us an open world we can PVP in at any level which is what we haven't seen in a while and is something I think most of s hunger for. 

TSW aswell. Heck you might aswell count swtor too. 

 

I found myself in Age of Wushu. That game made me wonder wth are these western companies doing. These guys are spot on when it comes to scratching my mmorpg pvp itch.

 

Wide open, anything goes, but you have to be willing to do the time, if you do the crime. Literally. 

 

Right now TESO saving grace, for me, is the combat system. It looks to have a analog type feel, down to waring any type of armor. 

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