Originally posted by dannicus

Originally posted by Maelwydd

What form of physical or mental torture have they used to make you spend more money then the subscription fee?

Nipple clamps?

Playing Rick Astley songs 24/7?

Forcing you to PvP in MO as F2P?

 

Or are you incapable of moderating yourself?

no but I see this as a bad direction for MMO's in general. It's like Cable TV at one time had no commercials, it was sold as commercial-free tv for a fee but now it's loaded wth commercials and you still pay a fee.

Well just like TV, some channels have adverts some don't. Watch the ones that don't if it bothers you. But don't accuse a company of some sort of ethical money grabbing crime when they are OPTIONAL.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by dannicus

Originally posted by Maelwydd

What form of physical or mental torture have they used to make you spend more money then the subscription fee?

Nipple clamps?

Playing Rick Astley songs 24/7?

Forcing you to PvP in MO as F2P?

 

Or are you incapable of moderating yourself?

no but I see this as a bad direction for MMO's in general. It's like Cable TV at one time had no commercials, it was sold as commercial-free tv for a fee but now it's loaded wth commercials and you still pay a fee.

Well just like TV, some channels have adverts some don't. Watch the ones that don't if it bothers you. But don't accuse a company of some sort of ethical money grabbing crime when they are OPTIONAL.

What are you talking about? I didn't accuse them of a crime or being ethical. I do think it's an unethical business practice by Funcom. 

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

I believe TSW has the best combat system. All the critique about the combat in TSW comes from early beta players. The combat is extremely fast if your build is fast, or extremely slow, if your build is about survivabiltiy, or anything in between those two extremes. That's the beauty of it.

 

 It is not really for me or many i play with that the speed is the issue, but the fact of how generic the combatabilties feel at large. Thoughh in truth tsw was not really made a a combat focused game, but more of a story game, and lore exploration game with combat being more secondary. The idea, and concept are great, but i think many of the aspect implimented were not as fleshed out, and many of the abilties lacked a uniqueness that would have made the combat much better an less bland.

I respect your opinion, but I totally disagree with it. I think the abilities are well designed, there are a lot of unique abilities and picking up the right synergies between them is like a deck-building game. For instance, there are three types of healers, fist healers, which rely on critical hits of their dots multiplying by passive abilities, leech-healers that heal others by hitting enemies + giving life-leech buffs on others that can then acts as healer by themselves for a short time, or blood-healers that heal by adding barriers and prevention-bubbles.

Plus don't forget, you can use 2 weapons simultaneously, so as a healer you can mix those healing-specs any way you want, or even add some DPS specs (Assault Rifles + Shotguns) or buffing specs (Fists+Pistols) or even being a tank-healer (Sword/Hammer + Blood) or whatever you like. 

Yes but you  are talking about the function of the ability, which alot of speccs have an interesting way of working, but also many times within the same school of abilties (blood, chaos, what have you.) they do not diviate vary much. Also the look of the abiltiy can be quite bland looking and sometimes even very minor diferences in appeanrce to other abilties in the game wheel.  They kinda took the idea of focusing the areas of the wheel on one or maybe two facts too far, as if they had two or more ways of healing that were unique per school, such as a blood mage that could shield, or could redirect the damage being taken by the group around diffently or even funnel it to a certain person it would have gave more veriety to the wheel as well. Also the limited bar space lead to alot of feeling the abilties were confining as well as copied, i mean you do nnot need 20 active abilties, but having 10 to 15 would not have been bad an added more to the veiriety of the combat too.

I loved the idea of abilties having differing effects based on the status of the target when they are used, yet they kept the number of statuses rather limited as well, which seemed odd to me as you could have six types of statuses that would have lead to mroe abilties having alt effects based on the status of the target being target or casting it.  One of the killers for me was the lack of a true pet-based or partical pet-based school, as really in myths an legends summoner style character that use minions or such are quite common, an for me one of those styles of combat i like for the micro-management side of the aspect.

Originally posted by dannicus

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by dannicus

Originally posted by Maelwydd

What form of physical or mental torture have they used to make you spend more money then the subscription fee?

Nipple clamps?

Playing Rick Astley songs 24/7?

Forcing you to PvP in MO as F2P?

 

Or are you incapable of moderating yourself?

no but I see this as a bad direction for MMO's in general. It's like Cable TV at one time had no commercials, it was sold as commercial-free tv for a fee but now it's loaded wth commercials and you still pay a fee.

Well just like TV, some channels have adverts some don't. Watch the ones that don't if it bothers you. But don't accuse a company of some sort of ethical money grabbing crime when they are OPTIONAL.

What are you talking about? I didn't accuse them of a crime or being ethical. I do think it's an unethical business practice by Funcom. 

but tis ok for wow to have a sub and cash shop?

Originally posted by dannicus

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by dannicus

Originally posted by Maelwydd

What form of physical or mental torture have they used to make you spend more money then the subscription fee?

Nipple clamps?

Playing Rick Astley songs 24/7?

Forcing you to PvP in MO as F2P?

 

Or are you incapable of moderating yourself?

no but I see this as a bad direction for MMO's in general. It's like Cable TV at one time had no commercials, it was sold as commercial-free tv for a fee but now it's loaded wth commercials and you still pay a fee.

Well just like TV, some channels have adverts some don't. Watch the ones that don't if it bothers you. But don't accuse a company of some sort of ethical money grabbing crime when they are OPTIONAL.

What are you talking about? I didn't accuse them of a crime or being ethical. I do think it's an unethical business practice by Funcom. 

 Why? Is it needed/required for you to play to buy from the shop? Does it give the players that pay an un-fair advantage against you? Are they swindling you out of your money unfairly or cheating you out of your money? Because in truth the fact is no one at funcom is telling you that you have to buy the item in the shop to  play, or that you do not have other options to gain vanity items, but that you can buy items from the shop for a fee.  Also it is within standard practices to charge a customer for extra for items or services that are outside of the original purchase. Such as charging you extra for cheese on a sandwitch that does not come with  it, or extra letuce, or even for added features on a car that are not stadard issue.

It has become commonplace to have a cash shop of some kind associated with mmos. The biggest arguments have to do with P2W items in the cash shop, and most folks don't seem to mind at all when the items are merely cosmetic or vanity items. This is the TSW model.

Welcome to 2012.

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

I believe TSW has the best combat system. All the critique about the combat in TSW comes from early beta players. The combat is extremely fast if your build is fast, or extremely slow, if your build is about survivabiltiy, or anything in between those two extremes. That's the beauty of it.

 

 It is not really for me or many i play with that the speed is the issue, but the fact of how generic the combatabilties feel at large. Thoughh in truth tsw was not really made a a combat focused game, but more of a story game, and lore exploration game with combat being more secondary. The idea, and concept are great, but i think many of the aspect implimented were not as fleshed out, and many of the abilties lacked a uniqueness that would have made the combat much better an less bland.

I respect your opinion, but I totally disagree with it. I think the abilities are well designed, there are a lot of unique abilities and picking up the right synergies between them is like a deck-building game. For instance, there are three types of healers, fist healers, which rely on critical hits of their dots multiplying by passive abilities, leech-healers that heal others by hitting enemies + giving life-leech buffs on others that can then acts as healer by themselves for a short time, or blood-healers that heal by adding barriers and prevention-bubbles.

Plus don't forget, you can use 2 weapons simultaneously, so as a healer you can mix those healing-specs any way you want, or even add some DPS specs (Assault Rifles + Shotguns) or buffing specs (Fists+Pistols) or even being a tank-healer (Sword/Hammer + Blood) or whatever you like. 

Yes but you  are talking about the function of the ability, which alot of speccs have an interesting way of working, but also many times within the same school of abilties (blood, chaos, what have you.) they do not diviate vary much. Also the look of the abiltiy can be quite bland looking and sometimes even very minor diferences in appeanrce to other abilties in the game wheel.  They kinda took the idea of focusing the areas of the wheel on one or maybe two facts too far, as if they had two or more ways of healing that were unique per school, such as a blood mage that could shield, or could redirect the damage being taken by the group around diffently or even funnel it to a certain person it would have gave more veriety to the wheel as well. Also the limited bar space lead to alot of feeling the abilties were confining as well as copied, i mean you do nnot need 20 active abilties, but having 10 to 15 would not have been bad an added more to the veiriety of the combat too.

 

I loved the idea of abilties having differing effects based on the status of the target when they are used, yet they kept the number of statuses rather limited as well, which seemed odd to me as you could have six types of statuses that would have lead to mroe abilties having alt effects based on the status of the target being target or casting it.  One of the killers for me was the lack of a true pet-based or partical pet-based school, as really in myths an legends summoner style character that use minions or such are quite common, an for me one of those styles of combat i like for the micro-management side of the aspect.

Please be more specific. I don't see any overlapping abilities. Each keyword (penetration, hit, glance, block, defense, evade, leech, heal, critical chance, critical power, health, hinder, impair, affliction.. did I forgot any), has about 4-5 active and passive abilities, and all abilities are kinda different. 

best MMO on the market for me, nicest and most communicative devs.

I like them a lot and spend a little extra on top of my lifetime B2P pack every now and then, to fund the monthly updates.

Most of the stuff there is standard like name change, dimension transfer, barbershop coupons and special pets.

Nothing else like the WoW shop.

But, NO DAMN F2P GAMBLING BOXES, and NO Pay2win, THEREFORE <3 FC FTW

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

I believe TSW has the best combat system. All the critique about the combat in TSW comes from early beta players. The combat is extremely fast if your build is fast, or extremely slow, if your build is about survivabiltiy, or anything in between those two extremes. That's the beauty of it.

 

 It is not really for me or many i play with that the speed is the issue, but the fact of how generic the combatabilties feel at large. Thoughh in truth tsw was not really made a a combat focused game, but more of a story game, and lore exploration game with combat being more secondary. The idea, and concept are great, but i think many of the aspect implimented were not as fleshed out, and many of the abilties lacked a uniqueness that would have made the combat much better an less bland.

I respect your opinion, but I totally disagree with it. I think the abilities are well designed, there are a lot of unique abilities and picking up the right synergies between them is like a deck-building game. For instance, there are three types of healers, fist healers, which rely on critical hits of their dots multiplying by passive abilities, leech-healers that heal others by hitting enemies + giving life-leech buffs on others that can then acts as healer by themselves for a short time, or blood-healers that heal by adding barriers and prevention-bubbles.

Plus don't forget, you can use 2 weapons simultaneously, so as a healer you can mix those healing-specs any way you want, or even add some DPS specs (Assault Rifles + Shotguns) or buffing specs (Fists+Pistols) or even being a tank-healer (Sword/Hammer + Blood) or whatever you like. 

Yes but you  are talking about the function of the ability, which alot of speccs have an interesting way of working, but also many times within the same school of abilties (blood, chaos, what have you.) they do not diviate vary much. Also the look of the abiltiy can be quite bland looking and sometimes even very minor diferences in appeanrce to other abilties in the game wheel.  They kinda took the idea of focusing the areas of the wheel on one or maybe two facts too far, as if they had two or more ways of healing that were unique per school, such as a blood mage that could shield, or could redirect the damage being taken by the group around diffently or even funnel it to a certain person it would have gave more veriety to the wheel as well. Also the limited bar space lead to alot of feeling the abilties were confining as well as copied, i mean you do nnot need 20 active abilties, but having 10 to 15 would not have been bad an added more to the veiriety of the combat too.

 

I loved the idea of abilties having differing effects based on the status of the target when they are used, yet they kept the number of statuses rather limited as well, which seemed odd to me as you could have six types of statuses that would have lead to mroe abilties having alt effects based on the status of the target being target or casting it.  One of the killers for me was the lack of a true pet-based or partical pet-based school, as really in myths an legends summoner style character that use minions or such are quite common, an for me one of those styles of combat i like for the micro-management side of the aspect.

Please be more specific. I don't see any overlapping abilities. Each keyword (penetration, hit, glance, block, defense, evade, leech, heal, critical chance, critical power, health, hinder, impair, affliction.. did I forgot any), has about 4-5 active and passive abilities, and all abilities are kinda different. 

 That is the fact you are talking about how the abilties fuction, while i am talking on how they look an feel while in combat. For me playing either a blood or choas dps-mage felt too similar as both apply a condition an than gain a buff or aguement to their abilties. But as i said above a blood mage-healer would largely shield their target an heal an that is well the sole focus of the blood healing. I think they could have added more depth an veriety to differing schools to make them have more ways of proforming thier duties. Also many fo the elmentalist attacks look much like they were re-skinned from other attacks in the other parts fo the wheel or even school. Like the thor hammer spell (might be wrong ont he name it is an elite skill.) looks rather uniue but feels somewhat similar to the fireball spell look.

Originally posted by lizardbones

I won't play the game with a sub. I can't say that's because the game isn't worth it though. I think they've done a really good job, and the game is pretty close to what they said they were going to do. I'm just (a) tired of subs and (b) tired of quest hub driven MMORPG progression.

I think they did a great job with the quests, but it just felt too much like running between quest hubs, doing the same old stuff I did with every other quest hub game.

This is pretty much where I was at, though I don't even mind quest hubs that much.  I played shortly after launch, played my free month and quit. 

The quests just might be among the best I've experienced in MMO's.  Great atmosphere, great story, some pretty good puzzle concepts... the single player aspects were pretty much on par for a good single player game.  If they had gone the GW2 B2P w/mt model, I might be playing, these days.

I quit due to lack of content, the non-lack of bugs, and basically just a short playtime for an MMO.  While the zones are good sized, the world is tiny, tiny, tiny.  There's just not enough of anything to justify a monthly subscription.  And finally, the combat was often just annoying, as the game world was mob-populated for a stand and attack game, so you'd keep getting adds as you dodged and moved.

Lastly, there's almost no replayability; certainly no reason to roll a new toon since the story differences are just cosmetic and no faction has any exclusive playability.  The moment in beta when I realized that almost every mission is repeatable I should have known what was coming:  A non-linear Diablo-esque replay experience but without the loot.  Rerun the missions over and over, fill out the wheel and get your purples.

Still, I hesistate to call it a ripoff, as I paid 50 bucks for it like I would any SPG, played it til' "the end" and quit.  I supposed I could say it's a rip since I could still play that game now if it were an SPG...

There is no such thing as a rip-off in gaming because you can always choose NOT to play.

For me, i am waiting for TSW to turn F2P. it is not ripping me off because i don't pay funcom a cent.

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

 

Please be more specific. I don't see any overlapping abilities. Each keyword (penetration, hit, glance, block, defense, evade, leech, heal, critical chance, critical power, health, hinder, impair, affliction.. did I forgot any), has about 4-5 active and passive abilities, and all abilities are kinda different. 

 That is the fact you are talking about how the abilties fuction, while i am talking on how they look an feel while in combat. For me playing either a blood or choas dps-mage felt too similar as both apply a condition an than gain a buff or aguement to their abilties. But as i said above a blood mage-healer would largely shield their target an heal an that is well the sole focus of the blood healing. I think they could have added more depth an veriety to differing schools to make them have more ways of proforming thier duties. Also many fo the elmentalist attacks look much like they were re-skinned from other attacks in the other parts fo the wheel or even school. Like the thor hammer spell (might be wrong ont he name it is an elite skill.) looks rather uniue but feels somewhat similar to the fireball spell look.

There is no difference between Chaos and Blood Mage as a dps-er?

Now I doubt you played it longer than a few hours. 

There is a huge diffference between Chaos and Blood in feel and mechanics. Chaos is almost totally melee-based focused on impairs and high burst instant damage and defense abilities (evade), whereas blood dps is based on ranged - slow affliction (dot) damage and penetration hits. Lots of blood abilities may also be paid by your health-pool instead of the usual resources, whereas chaos is strickly based on resources. Those are two opposing 'schools' in fact in mechanics and in overall feel.

TSW has a lot to not like for me it was combat, but I never had an issue with the cash shop.

Originally posted by Thillian

Appearance changes -- there are hundreds of different clothes obtainable ingame without paying anything.

Haircuts - you get 2 free haircut tokens obtainable via missions.

There are a few pets and titles that are shop-exclusive, pretty much equal to WoW.

 

The shop apart from a few pets does not really offer anything. Most of the people do not use it.

People have been complaining of sub fees of late,so adding EXTRA cost onto sub fees is what the OP is not happy with and i agree 100%.

EVERY single piece of content/asset shoud lbe obtainable to the players who sub.

Where i accept cash shop is IF they are selling laziness but withotu affecting other players in any way.

Example,i don't care if they sell a red shirt for 5 bucks if yo ucan get the same shirt in game>>>>reasonably,so that the cash shop is not forced.

Originally posted by dannicus

Originally posted by Maelwydd

What form of physical or mental torture have they used to make you spend more money then the subscription fee?

Nipple clamps?

Playing Rick Astley songs 24/7?

Forcing you to PvP in MO as F2P?

 

Or are you incapable of moderating yourself?

no but I see this as a bad direction for MMO's in general. It's like Cable TV at one time had no commercials, it was sold as commercial-free tv for a fee but now it's loaded wth commercials and you still pay a fee.

And once again, nobody is forcing anybody to open up their wallets and pay for it.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Thillian

 

Please be more specific. I don't see any overlapping abilities. Each keyword (penetration, hit, glance, block, defense, evade, leech, heal, critical chance, critical power, health, hinder, impair, affliction.. did I forgot any), has about 4-5 active and passive abilities, and all abilities are kinda different. 

 That is the fact you are talking about how the abilties fuction, while i am talking on how they look an feel while in combat. For me playing either a blood or choas dps-mage felt too similar as both apply a condition an than gain a buff or aguement to their abilties. But as i said above a blood mage-healer would largely shield their target an heal an that is well the sole focus of the blood healing. I think they could have added more depth an veriety to differing schools to make them have more ways of proforming thier duties. Also many fo the elmentalist attacks look much like they were re-skinned from other attacks in the other parts fo the wheel or even school. Like the thor hammer spell (might be wrong ont he name it is an elite skill.) looks rather uniue but feels somewhat similar to the fireball spell look.

There is no difference between Chaos and Blood Mage as a dps-er?

Now I doubt you played it longer than a few hours. 

There is a huge diffference between Chaos and Blood in feel and mechanics. Chaos is almost totally melee-based focused on impairs and high burst instant damage and defense abilities (evade), whereas blood dps is based on ranged - slow affliction (dot) damage and penetration hits. Lots of blood abilities may also be paid by your health-pool instead of the usual resources, whereas chaos is strickly based on resources. Those are two opposing 'schools' in fact in mechanics and in overall feel.

Nice call. So much has been said about this game that isn't even a little true.