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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why PVP scares some people?

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256 posts found
  SvendSvin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/05
Posts: 9

12/03/12 10:51:28 AM#101
Originally posted by Torik
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Until such a time when PvPers are having their PvP experience ruined by someone baking bread at them, the gamers who engage primarily in FFA PVP will maintain a general disconnect with the rest of the playerbase's perspective on how different playstyles impact gameplay.

 

I can imagine that now.  Two groups of players are having an epic PvP battle when all of a sudden a baker jumps out of nowhere, throws his food products at teh combatants and all of a sudden all of the PvP are sittign around drinking tea and eating crumpets.

LOL, i like that idea.. Diehard PVP game, where the PVE players can come along and force everyone else to PVE.. And perhaps even roleplay!! :D

- SvendSvin

  xDrac

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/10
Posts: 177

12/03/12 10:54:19 AM#102
Much more games should have Open World PvP as Lineage II did...

Lineage 3 - www.lineage3-online.com
Web & Graphic Design - www.xdrac.deviantart.com

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19137

12/03/12 11:35:01 AM#103

I highly doubt people are "scared" of anything. But you do have to ask ... what is fun pvp.

I would argue that mixing pve and pvp is not always a good idea. If i am running to a dungeon to meet some friends, i don't want to be interrupted by pvp. Thus, open world pvp, in a pve game, is not popular because it interrupts players.

However, a pure pvp game like PS2 is great .. no one has a problem with pvp-ing anyway any time because that is what the game is for.

And there are also those who like e-sport. And hence arena pvp.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/03/12 11:41:03 AM#104
Originally posted by SvendSvin
Originally posted by Torik
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Until such a time when PvPers are having their PvP experience ruined by someone baking bread at them, the gamers who engage primarily in FFA PVP will maintain a general disconnect with the rest of the playerbase's perspective on how different playstyles impact gameplay.

 

I can imagine that now.  Two groups of players are having an epic PvP battle when all of a sudden a baker jumps out of nowhere, throws his food products at teh combatants and all of a sudden all of the PvP are sittign around drinking tea and eating crumpets.

LOL, i like that idea.. Diehard PVP game, where the PVE players can come along and force everyone else to PVE.. And perhaps even roleplay!! :D

Chuckle.  The message boards would be..interesting.  But other than as a social experiment, I don't see any worthwhile goal.

Life on a RP server (MG) that got invaded every time an adjacent PVP server (Blackrock) went down for maintenance...yeah.  Even solely as an experiment, it's already been done.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  RandomDown

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 146

12/03/12 11:45:35 AM#105
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

 ...

2- Human-controled characters is much more harder to defeat in 99% of the time.

 

As the AI tecnology is still far away from the capacity of a actual human brain, the human-controled characters, in equal conditions, will be more harder to defeat and unpredictable. To defeat a human-controled player requires a minimum of training, attention and motor coordination from the players, ie, skill and mental work, which not everyone is willling to do or have.

If the AI controlled characters had the same complex fighting behavior and tactics of the humans, the pvp would be less hated by these people too, since there wouldn't much difference.

 PVE characters can only become "hard" with gigantic increase in their stats, but still are predictable like a bull in the arena and can be easily beaten by a group of players whose only "challenge" is to form and keep a group able to memorize a handful of "movements". 

 

PVPers are by no means unpredictable. You can get a very rough and generally right prediction of their build and therefore behavior by their gearsets or in some cases buffs. Like in SWTOR or some games where the stance is on the buff bar. Easy to tell what moves they are built around. Unless you get perfect balance and make every possible build perform equally, then no it will be predictable. Its the same situation you get from mobs and raid bosses. Their animations or channel bars if they are shown or the various rotations used by players are going to be same and you can avoid or deal with them. Rarely is their behavior unpredictable. PvPers are just as predictable as a bull in an arena because all they do is "memorize a handful of "movements"" and base their builds around that.

  demongoat

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 67

12/03/12 12:11:40 PM#106

i personally don't like pvp because most forms of pvp are crap.  poorly designed, poorly implemented and built in a way that makes the devs concentrate on it because pvp players whine about how they get beaten all the time.

if i want to kill other players, i'd play counterstrike or some other fps, at least they are designed and balanced around pvp, most mmos aren't.

 

other than the crappiness of pvp in most mmos, i find the level of elitist BS spewed by pvpers to turn me off.  the OP is a good example of this.  it's a video game bro, you aren't some pvp ubermensch looking down on us unwashed pve players, you are like the rest of us; some nerd playing a video game.  

i guess this is just another example of someone using an irrelevant passtime as a measure of their personal self-worth. 

 

lol, people afraid of pvp? no.

the closest thing i might be afraid of in a video game is failing to play at some 12 year-olds impossible standard in dota, mostly because they report you for it, and pretty much everything else.  i don't like the idea of being banned from something i bought simply because some child doesn't like how i play, so i don't play those types of games.

 

to sum this up, mmos are crap for pvp, i'd rather stick my testicles in a belt-sander than endure the stupidity found in the majority of mmo pvp.

 

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1356

12/03/12 12:36:40 PM#107
Originally posted by SvendSvin
Originally posted by Torik
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Until such a time when PvPers are having their PvP experience ruined by someone baking bread at them, the gamers who engage primarily in FFA PVP will maintain a general disconnect with the rest of the playerbase's perspective on how different playstyles impact gameplay.

 

I can imagine that now.  Two groups of players are having an epic PvP battle when all of a sudden a baker jumps out of nowhere, throws his food products at teh combatants and all of a sudden all of the PvP are sittign around drinking tea and eating crumpets.

LOL, i like that idea.. Diehard PVP game, where the PVE players can come along and force everyone else to PVE.. And perhaps even roleplay!! :D

Posts of the week! hahaha!

  xDrac

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/10
Posts: 177

12/03/12 12:40:13 PM#108
Why is there a seperation between PvE and PvP servers anyway? Games should just have both by default goddammit. In real life your life can end anytime too. There's murderers and whatnot.

Lineage 3 - www.lineage3-online.com
Web & Graphic Design - www.xdrac.deviantart.com

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19137

12/03/12 12:54:37 PM#109
Originally posted by xDrac
Why is there a seperation between PvE and PvP servers anyway? Games should just have both by default goddammit. In real life your life can end anytime too. There's murderers and whatnot.

I hate to break it to you .. but games are not real life, they are entertainment products.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/03/12 12:58:40 PM#110
Some people just really really really don't like dieing, so not only do they form a strong anti pvp stance, they also campaign to make pve piss easy and use thing like gear score so they can run dungeons with little fear if failure.

It's a general thing of having to always win in a game and not being able to take any failure.
  Robsolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 3990

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

12/03/12 1:33:58 PM#111
Originally posted by dopplemmo
Originally posted by maccarthur2004 Reading opinions and various texts in the internet, i saw that this population "pvp-hater" can be subdivided in 2 categories: people that likes or is indiferent to pvp itself, but hates the "free pvp" ("open world FFA pvp") and people that are truly scared of any type of pvp, even the structured.

 

Your post starts on the wrong foot, and thus will likely lead nowhere interesting. You insinuate that there are 3 basic attitudes of players toward PVP: -like it -indifferent -scared by it. If you had really wanted to make three mutually exclusive states, the third category would have read: dislike it But no, they are sssscccaaaaarrrreeddd....... What would you say if I described the 3 basic attitudes of players toward PVE: -like it -indifferent -scared by it.

This right here.

Could have been a good discussion, but the OP had to pull out his (most assuredly huge) Epeen by assuming non-PvP'ers are afff-f-f-f-f-f-f-fraaaaaaid!!!  False start called on the first play.

There are plenty of reasons to not like PvP, and seeing as how nothing in PvP causes any RL pain or suffering, there's no reason to think it's fear-driven.

For example, I don't like most forms of PvP for the same reason that I don't like games that tend to support griefing practices by players(Eve being my only and inexplicable exception).  I don't like that I could be wanting to get from point A to point B one days and constantly be ganked halfway by a player twice my level; something that frequently occurred to me in WoW.

If you were driving along in RL one day and you kept encountering some situation which made you go back to point A, would you be:

A.  Sss-s-s-s-s-s-s-scarrrrr-r-r-red?

or

B.  Pissed?

Nobody plays games that piss them off.

 

 

 

  Torik

Elite Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2304

12/03/12 1:40:21 PM#112
Originally posted by xDrac
Why is there a seperation between PvE and PvP servers anyway? Games should just have both by default goddammit. In real life your life can end anytime too. There's murderers and whatnot.

So you are advocating full on permadeath?  That's the only way a game character life can end.  In real life we also put murderers in jail for the rest of their life.  Would you be fine with having your character spend the next 20 years (RL time) locked away while you are contractually required to keep on paying your subscription?

Standard MMORPG PvP is as far removed from Real Life as a Looney Toones cartoon. 

  xDrac

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/10
Posts: 177

12/03/12 1:50:37 PM#113

No, you take it way too seriously.

But we can attack eachother too. There is no invisible rule prohibiting this.

And with open world PvP things will balance themselves out. 

I can only repeat it over and over again. Lineage II had a brilliant OWPVP system.

If you pk'd (which was risky) you sometimes got what you deserved. Specially when PKing lowbies. Cause it was hard as hell to work off your karma.

Lineage 3 - www.lineage3-online.com
Web & Graphic Design - www.xdrac.deviantart.com

  defector1968

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/10
Posts: 400

Real Animal lovers are ONLY the vegetarians

12/03/12 1:52:55 PM#114

Best answer is  ==>  in all MMOs there is class unbalance

FYI in PVP even the looser team wins something, in PVE not

and the people that dont do PVP they dont scare, they find it boring

  yllis

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 70

12/03/12 1:54:30 PM#115

I used to be a "I hate pvp person" and now I enjoy it. When I look back at why I hated it, I think it was because open PvP is rarely fair, it's usually one person jumps the other, beats them into paste before they can react and taunts them for it. 

 

In open world PvP I doubt too many people have ever mutually met for combat and went toe to toe both allowing the other to get ready, its usually an aggressor who waits until a win is most likely and then taking it by surprise. 

 

I know there are exceptions, but one time of "Im about to kill this quest boss and get my loot... hey who is that... erk!  Nooooo!" stings for a long long time for most gamers.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19137

12/03/12 1:56:48 PM#116
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Some people just really really really don't like dieing, so not only do they form a strong anti pvp stance, they also campaign to make pve piss easy and use thing like gear score so they can run dungeons with little fear if failure.

It's a general thing of having to always win in a game and not being able to take any failure.

My stance is that whatever people prefer is fine in an entertainment product. After all, it is about enjoyment. It is totally understanding why someone would enjoy 100% winning, and what to use gearscore to help with that (and to show off).

The fact that gearscore exist, and people are allowed to try the same boss again and again after wipes, is a pretty good indication that the market is working, and responding to that demand.

  maccarthur2004

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 447

 
OP  12/03/12 2:05:01 PM#117

I will answer the posts from page 8 ahead, but before that i will discuss something about the flaws of pvp and pve.

 

Much has already been spoken about the flaws and crap things from the pvp. I really dont have much disagreement with the major part of the claims, but i found VERY strange nobody (until now) speak of the flaws and crap things from the pve and apply to it the same critics applied to the pvp. I will try now do that task. I advance that the SAME critics made to the pvp are applicable to the pve in a WORST degree.

 

Above all: AI controled characters are VERY VERY VERY dumb and do very idiot things while fighting or in relation with their long term survival. A little list:

 

 - They rush to the player even when in very inferior condition (lv, stats) instead of fleeing, stealth or summon help from others AI characters. They exposes themselves in "open chest" to stronger or outnumbered players.

- They dont flee when are clearly losing the fight, or when the player is clearly easy killing other mobs near.

- If a player attacks a group of mobs (ex: a village of trolls), is very common a mob fight alone with the player in the linesight of others and no be helped, or no yell for help. They could easily call the entire village to rush to the player.

- When fighting a group of players, AI characters attacks the tankers first instead of the healers or dps.

- AI characters "respawn" in a area even when there is stronger or outnumbered players around. They dont wait the players go away to reappear.

- Irrational AI characters (Ex: animals) dont display the typical "fight or flee" behavior, fighting small players (lower lv) and fleeing big players (high lv). Instead they always fight and some only flee when almost dead.

- AI characters, when cornered by stronger players, dont commit suicide to avoid the player get some rewards (a "political" tactic to dissuade future attacks).

- AI characters constantly chased by stronger players dont migrate to others locations.

- AI characters dont do organized raids againts players and dont attack out of their spots.

- AI characters dont loot itens or "xp" from the players, getting stronger as surviving more fights or killing more players.

-AI characters dont have even 10% of the amount of "skills" that a player can have.

- AI characters, while fighting, dont move around, dodge, kite and retreat like the players. They stay "planted" in only one position in most cases.

-AI characters dont "ally" or group with other AI characters present in the mmo or even with other players.

 

Etc Etc Etc.

 

So, the PVE fight is far more "unbalanced" and crap than the pvp (which usually is crap too...imagine).

If the same flaws from the pvp fight are present in pve in very worst degree, so i necessarily come to the conclusion that isn't that flaws the main cause of the distaste of some people to the pvp, but the real possibility of to lose, to die or have much work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

12/03/12 2:18:47 PM#118
Originally posted by maccarthur2004

So, the PVE fight is far more "unbalanced" and crap than the pvp (which usually is crap too...imagine).

The assumption you are making is that people are seeking balance.  What if they are seeking texture, atmosphere and fantasy  rather than e-sport?

( obviously, there are some people who do enjoy and are motivated by PvP environments and competitive environments.  There will also always be conflcts where different playstyles have difficulty coexisting on the same map.  There is no one perfect solution as to how to resolve all these sorts of conflicts of agendas.  The question is whether it is worth the hassle and conflict to attempt to stir PvP and non-PvP players into the same pot and arguements like this send to confirm my opinion that it is not )

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3596

12/03/12 2:22:46 PM#119
Originally posted by CalmOceans

I don't think it has anything to do with anyone being scared of PVP, I never heard anyone ever say that, many hate PVP yes.

 

I don't like PVP because:

-the gameplay of PVP is 9 out of 10 time really really bad

-the PVP community is usually incredibly rude

-I have no time to deal with griefing little kids in an MMO

-There is never cooperation in PVP games, it's always one person or a handful of peope button mashing, no organised raids

-Many PVP players cry on the forum that classes aren't balanced because they get killed one-on-one, classes are not supposed to be balanced in PVE games that's what teamwork is for

-etc etc etc

Yup, the same goes for me.  I find, almost without exception, that active PvPers are total douchebags, especially in open-PVP games.  Even for the ones where it's totally consentual, I've had PvPers standing there yelling at random passersby, people who have their PvP flags off "you're a fucking pussy, come fight me!"

PvPers are assholes.  I don't want to play with assholes. 

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  maccarthur2004

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 447

 
OP  12/03/12 2:26:25 PM#120
As said before, WoW is one of the worst mmos regading the easiness to gank. I think this fact is partly responsible for the extreme skepticism of some people about the possibility of effectively control gank in a mmo with free pvp.

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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