it's an ideological issue. for me at last.

I'm facing an opponent that has no way to defend himself. like a pvp ship vs a mining barge. Why would I kill him? he's harmless.

i'm facing an opponent that's also pvp but far weaker than me. why would i face him? he stands no chance against me. He's harmless.

I'm facing an opponent that's around my strength. He's a lot like me, almost a reflection of me. If one of us is destroyed, the playerbase as a whole will be a little less like me.

I'm facing an opponent that's far stronger than me. Why would i fight him? there's no way I can win, the proper course of action i to yield and flee.

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next: strategy. when is it a smart time to engage? when i have the most advantage. when he's hurt or fighting something else or i have strength in numbers. So i created myself an advantage...now see above for the problem.

what if i don't create myself the avantage? well now I have engaged at less than my optimal, while he might have prepared better than I did.

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I'm not a pvp'er. unless it involves a reason, a hatred and desire to hurt squish and destroy my enemy, I won't engage him. Unless I'm defending myself or my posessions from him or unless I'm retaliating...open world 'hey there's a guy, let's shoot at him" is not something I do in my MMOs.

meaningless pvp depresses me. in MMOs. I hav no problem with it in games like shooters. that's what we're all there for.

I can deal with forced pvp. I can not deal with choice pvp. sorry, poster above.

What people in wow dont like about pvp is that in the open world on a pvp server , pvp is basicly level 80- or 90s sitting in level 20 zones camping and killing poor 20s who cant even fight back thats not pvp. 

Thats just plain cowardice. If they normalized stats and made its o i had a chance id have no issue with that kind of pvp either but in wow thats not the case. 

Then when i do finally get a high level guildy to help me out the guy runs off like al ittle sissy and wont even engage the guy his own level so if thats what u mean by pvp of course they hate it. 

Now a group based objective open world pvp battle where max levels fight over keeps and areas to controll i have no issue with , I just dont like being ganked by a max level when im just trying to level a guy only to have them run when anyone near there level shows up cause they dont really wanna fight anyone who can actually beat them. 

Originally posted by DSWBeef
Its not that im against pvp. Im against full loot FORCED pvp. Thats the main reason I dont play MO or DF. I shouldnt be forced into entering a pvp situation. Thats why I enjoy pve servers, I can pvp When I choose to. I also prefer large scale battles or RVR type battles. Single or small group engagements to me are not exciting.

It's nice to have a world where you aren't afraid of PVP. Because the real world is full loot PVP with huge risks and rewards ;)

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

My first mmos played (UO and L2) had open PVP and it was regarded as essential part of the enviroment, indispensable to the social, political and economic dynamics of the virtual world.

I don't agree with your first sentence.

Originally posted by Sovrath

I don't think that's the case at all.

I think players who do not like pvp are generally against concentrating on something and then WHAM one shotted or besieged by a zerg of players. Then afterwards the attackers are sometimes just plain rude and insulting.

I always teabag when afforded the option.

I agree with PVP zones, not specifically instanced but zones of the conteinent listed as  "contested" The idea would be that you cant PVP in zones other than these, and these are the boarders between 2 countries. gives the lvl 20s a chance not to get walked on by lvl 80s, build up strength to go join the fight.

Or if lvl 80 enemy does enter a lower level zone a big alarm goes off, gaurds that are stronger or as strong as the enemy, are dispached that can aggro them from anywhere in the zone. the idea is simple.

Fight like a coward Die like a coward.

Originally posted by denshing

Originally posted by Sovrath

I don't think that's the case at all.

I think players who do not like pvp are generally against concentrating on something and then WHAM one shotted or besieged by a zerg of players. Then afterwards the attackers are sometimes just plain rude and insulting.

I always teabag when afforded the option.

i couldnt help but LOL at this, funny but sad all at the same time ;)

Originally posted by Gruug

PvP "lovers" (in keeping with the nature of this thread) do not consider how imbalanced PvP can be. Particularly in a level based game. They also fail to acknowledge that there are absolutely no negative consequences for just "killing of killings sake". It is one thing to "kill" in the name of war, theivery or passion. It is a totatlly different thing to do it just because you can. To some, it is not "fun" to just be the victim of those that just want to get the epeen for the night. So, if I am a level 1 out doing quests and some level 50 comes along and beats me down he may get some sick pleasure out of it. I on the other hand just get a bad taste of what the game it going to be like. It is not "fear" as was pointed out in the opening post. It is just that there is no reason for it and it is not at all competitve.

Speaking of competitive, what point is saying that it is "skill" when one player (or several in many cases) out levels their targets. What "skill" is involved if one person has far inferior equipment then someone that is fully high geared? Skill can only be measured if all possible variables as just mentioned are equal. Otherwise, it is not skill that wins those fights but the higher level or the much superior equipment.

So don't tell me that PvP scares people. It doesn't scare people, they just don't like being on the wrong end of a badly mismatched system that is not fun.

 

Fits item 1. The skill issue you said i already explained in item 2 ("in equal conditions").

Originally posted by Sinella

Originally posted by grimgryphon
I don't think people are afraid of PvP, I think they just find a large portion of the people who gravitate toward it distasteful.

This. I would have far less problem with  PvP if it wouldn't attract the bigest a-hole of the gaming community. My other problem with PvP ( well only with forced PvP, not in general ) that other players think they have the right to force me to entertain them when I don't feel so, and to be their content when I want to mind my own business. 

 

OP, what if there was a game where another player could run up to you when you were having fun in an activity, could stop you doing that and could force you to sing a song for 5 minutes ? Would you enjoy that ? I'm not scared of PvP...I really doubt anyone is. But I can be very irritated by it, when other players waste and steal my precious gaming time.

Fits item 1 from the OP text.

Originally posted by Sovrath

I don't think that's the case at all.

I think players who do not like pvp are generally against concentrating on something and then WHAM one shotted or besieged by a zerg of players. Then afterwards the attackers are sometimes just plain rude and insulting.

I don't think they would have any problem with wandering npc monsters. Essentially it's the aggressive human element that turns them off unless the pvp is on their own terms.

Meaning they have entered an area/battleground and are ready to fight and don't mind dying. In that case they are mentally prepared for waht is about to happen.

As opposed to "oh look there's some iron... WHAM".

back to town.

noob.

Item 1

Originally posted by Sinella

Originally posted by ace80k
I think the answer is pretty simple really. Lack of control/fear of the unknown. In PvE you can control or at least predict the outcome of any fight, PvP can be very different in many aspects. I'm talking about people who absolutely 100% "hate" PvP btw. I think anger issues tie into this as well.

It's not that I can't predict the outcome of the fight. The thing is that I DON'T want to fight at times, and don't like to be forced into it. Sovrath's post explain it very well.

Look item 1.

Originally posted by Vorthanion
I have a feeling you are already wrong on your basic presumption that people avoid PvP out of fear.  If most are like me, it's due to irritation, asshats and cheaters / hackers.

Maybe i have chosen wrong the term (English is not my native language). When i said "scared", i dint mean something like the "dread" of horror movies, but only the "mistrust" or "dismay"  that some people seens to demonstrate and speak when knowing that some game will have no-restricted pvp.

Originally posted by NightBandit

I'm none of what the Op mentioned, however why I'm crap at PvP is I'm really lazy and poor player because I always use the mouse and keyboard and don't use hot keys and keyboard to take full advantage. Because I'm just lazy as fook, so I'm never going to win.

That said I do like the PvP in EvE again though you need to know your keys so as not to take week to lock a target and I'm getting there slowly.

 But I also feel most games lose balance with PvP and PvE so they never really gel it's either one or the other which stands out.

Bandit

Item 2

Originally posted by IG-88

All the PvP:ers ive seen is a lot of griefing kids and i have no interest of being ganked when out doing a quest.

Simple as that.

 

Item 1, same as the next post...

I was not wanting to defend gank or even OWPvP, but only try to explain the ultimate or "deep" causes to the aversion of some people to the pvp compared to the pve.

PVE AI characters only stay in their spots waiting to be butchered like livestock in the pasture. I DONT see any "fun" in doing this forever (except in the start, when the game is new and have good fight mechanics). I only butcher the AI controled weak/passive/dumb characters to obtain things to become stronger to the PVP, never by the sake of the pve itself.

I don't think this is an issue with the rules of the games, it's a problem with the community. I've seen this development with my own eyes. Back in the days people had balls and some sportmanship today peoples sole intention is to be assholes, because apparently that's cool.

Take WoW for instance, a real cesspool in that regard. I experience so much shit playing that game something I never encountered in DAoC. Open PvP in WoW and many other games today net you nothing, not a single fucking thing. Whenever I wanted to fight someone in the open I did the following: Wait for the to kill the mob they are fighting, let the regen health and mana and then approach and attack. I have honor, people had honor before, but the don't today.

Try playing a game of Dota/hon/LoL, biggest cesspool in the history of gaming, such an obnoxious and disgusting community. I remember the days when saying "good fight" or "GG" meant something positive, today it's seems to be considered an insult.

So shitty sportsmanship from PvPers is probably the main reason PvE players don't want to partiticipate. And it's not like winning is going to satisfy them either [mod edit]. If I see that someone can't beat me in PvP I'm not going to bother, what's the point when you don't even get a challenge out of it?

Originally posted by eindinbloch

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

 

 

2- Human-controled characters is much more harder to defeat in 99% of the time.

 

 

Not when you're 20 levels higher and in god gear.

Plus this.

You forgot to quote the "in equal conditions", written in the second line of the paragraph.

The mismatch of levels is discussed in item 1. Is a wrong thing, but i think the players wouldn't complain much if a AI controlled stronger monster would wander the land killing people, but would do the logic thing: flee/dodge/avoid the threat, report and ask for help from stronger players.

All the answers fits the itens exposed in the text (i am still in page 5, i will still read the others). A interesting fact about the gank is the difference between WoW (a paradigm of the themepark mmo pve focused) with Lineage 2 (a mmo famous be its free pvp): in WoW, althought half of the server cant kill you, a lv 85 can kill a lv 1 with TOTAL impunity! In L2,  is VERY risky a high level PK a player with lower lv because of a karma (bigger in proportion to the lv disparity) that can make him drops his gear that took months to get.

So, paradoxically, WoW is more "gank-friendly" than L2 althougt hasn't FFA pvp.

The example of WoW can "obscure" the mind of most people about ganking, because is RARE a mmo where gank is so unpunished as in WoW.

my view of ganking - from the gankee's viewpoint since I dont gank myself is this:

it's fine.

I'm a levl 20. a level 90 who's at war with me appears in front of me. WHAT COULD REALISTICALLY HAPPEN IN THIS SCENARIO except me ending up dead ?

He's stronger than me, it's my job to avoid him. I failed. He has earned the right to kill me. In NOD's words...

Peace Through Power.