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Whoops, I apologize I must of wrote that one quickly. I meant that as in reference to Jason Appleton, that he as a non-professional desinger doesn't know the right way. He admits it himself that he's an amateur and that he is "new to all of this." He has no real experience or background in it -- and I am not saying that makes him unqualifided. He could of been, but his actions have shown he doesn't know how to do it professionally.
I think people maybe misunderstood, I am not basing that he can't run the game because he has no background. Yes, he has no game industry background, but easily someone could lead a game and make a good one if he had no background and was new. But Jason Appleton doesn't fit that. He is doing things poorly and sloppily with shortcuts and bad hostile aggressive postings to other game communities and his public relation on interviews is obviously amateurish. |
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11/30/12 12:29:53 PM#22
It is still fitting though and spot on. If you lack qualification yourself, you are not qualified to point fingers... |
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Great, well thanks, but sadly for you I am allowed to have an opinion and post it, and I did just that. :)
An opinion is an opinion, someone from a game company may love him, and another may dislike him. That is life, people have different opinions, but I want other kickstarter investors to see what I have, and make their own choice to continue to invest or not. |
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11/30/12 12:34:50 PM#24
Allowed and qualified are 2 different things.
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Everything I posted has truth to it, I even use quotes and show videos of the quotes, there's nothing not factual about my posts. Sorry, you seem very bitter and upset that someone actually showed some truth with proof to these claims, but that is just the truth. Try to remember, it's just a forum!
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11/30/12 12:38:11 PM#26
Those guys in their bedrooms 20+ years ago making games for the zxspectrum and such would like to have a word with you.
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11/30/12 12:47:02 PM#27
So again in case you missed it:
You might prove his unprofessional behavior but you have no means to evaluate his work as executive produce or lead designer. After all, he is an executive producer and lead designer while you are...a forum poster.. |
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11/30/12 12:54:00 PM#28
Originally posted by Brigander I stop reading there, your argument are flawed and bias. You think because someone has a degree is better than someone who dont? In school you just learn theorie but the experience come from the work itself. Most succesful businessman dont have degree.. heck a lots of them didnt even finish college. You judge someone before he can prove himself and that wrong. |
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You, like most that have replied, didn't read everything I wrote and now to me are just looking foolish, sorry. I have addressed that now several times, I would advise you learn to read, and read everything, before posting something that has been brought up already. Good luck with the reading part.
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11/30/12 1:39:21 PM#30
Originally posted by Brigander Brigander, You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and certainly have the freedom to express it. What I don't believe you have a right to is to perform a character assassination of Jason Appleton and that, in my opinion, is what you are doing with this post. Why? I am really not sure what your motive is. You alone know that. However, here is my take on the points you brought forward. 1. With respect to prior experience in the gaming industry. Let me point you to Richard Garriott who began his ultima concept as a kid with no advanced degrees and background and eventually gave us Ultima Online. CEO's jump from one industry to another all the time. The art of MANAGING is not industry exclusive. Management skills are universal. If you have them, you can put together a team to get the job done. Did you speak to the team that Appleton put together for this project? I don't believe you did. They are a qualified group of people. The CEO's role is to have the vision, the team's role is to bring that vision to fruition. 2. Purchased Assets. Yes, it is not unusual for independent companies to purchase assets for the purpose of creating a game. Some of these assets are used as is, while others are customized by the development team to produce a desired outcome for the game. This approach results in resource savings that can be used in other aspects of the game. Nothing terribly wrong here. Greed Monger is not being developed by Arenanet or EA. The question is this do fans want to see a UO inspired Sandbox released or do they want the same old themeparks? I think the fans voted with their money in the Kickstarter campaign. What a beautiful vote of confidence that is! 100K from Joe Public. Amazing! 3 Land The Kickstarter campaign was extremely successful. Final amount was over 100K with kickstarter and paypal pledges combined. Yes out of an originally anticipated amount of 1500 plots spoken for at launch, the entire plot allotment of 3000 was acquired by backers. These backers, by the way, are not millionaires. They are gamers like me who have spent easily 60 bucks to purchase a themepark out there who decided to spend the money through the kickstarter campaign. Now will there be plots for all the backers ? The answer is YES! The land will be made big enough to accommodate ALL the plots spoken for with still whatever amount of land needed to have 2/3 undevelopable land. Appleton has said that he is not looking to have 50K players at launch. The game's intent was not to have the player population of EVE or WoW. This is a small project for a small community at launch. That having been said, there will be new land plots added later on just not at launch. Kickstarter stats are public folks. Anyone can look them up http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/appleton/greed-monger-a-crafting-focused-sandbox-mmorpg/ If you look at the daily pledge progression on that chart, you will see that the progression went uniformly upward all along the campaign, with a few people switching from Kickstarter to Paypal. I'm not saying that some people did not change their minds. Obviously, you were one of them. However there was no downward spiral of pledge withdrawals as your post seems to suggest. Let me state upfront that I am not going to debate any of this with you and I am not involved in the development of Greed Monger. I am just a pledger, like any other pledger, who got her information from Kickstarter and the Greed Monger forums. It is all public and by the way, I have never seen such candidness about development approaches from any other game's development team. Its very rewarding and refreshing. Those are the main points of your post I wished to address here. I hope this clears the air somewhat. Good day to you. Rheanon
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11/30/12 1:40:17 PM#31
Those that like the game, so be it, Just dont come crying back here or anywhere when the scam is up. Hell id rather sub to MO! then give this dude my money. those here defending it are obviously the few trolls who are following him, Great ya like your game, Now go ask your *game designer* to create a game from scratch!, wait he doesnt know how too, , Ask him to show some art work hes did, Wait he doesnt know how to do that ethier. But he can sell ya pills to enlarge ur goods! See where u all defending this game fail to realize, those who were in there basements making games, Knew how to make them, so dont toss that comment again. Its like taking my car to the shop and asking a 5 year old to fix it, Wont happen. To create a game and be a lead designer , you first must know how to create one.
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11/30/12 1:54:55 PM#32
Originally posted by fatboy21007
Well, the devs working in their basements often *didn't* know how to make games and it was only through practical experience that they improved their craft. Will Wright is a prominent example of someone with no programming degree nevertheless working towards creating the #1 selling game of its time. The game may end up being terrible and there will definitely be some "noob" mistakes made along the way, but I don't see why this game has a significantly dimmer outlook than what other indie MMOs have on offer. |
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11/30/12 2:11:58 PM#33
If theyr'e just using assets to build, code and test the gameplay with a view to replacing them later I can't really see a problem. Its fairly easy to replace a model, its textures, hitbox and sounds later on.
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Loktofeit
 Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
11/30/12 2:17:51 PM#34
Originally posted by Rheanon Those are strong words, sweetcheeks.
Brigander, Jason is a promoter and a real estate salesman. It seems like he's done both well, which means the job he's doing now - promoting the game - is what he excels at. It's entirely possible what he's done in the past two days is filter out many that were on the fence, and he built a core set of users who are not only psyched about the game but, as we've seen so far, ready to evangelize the game for them. They're also already invested in the game which makes that an even stronger tie. If Jason can't write a line of code, that's fine. His expertise seems to be in sales and social engineering which also seems to be what this game is about. In that light, he probably has a better handle on how this game works than the rest of us ever will because he's been doing it successfully for years now. You've said your peace and pressing it further isn't going to help. April 2013 isn't that far off. Let's wait and see how the game unfolds. It could tank or it could be the next Entropia Universe.
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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11/30/12 2:24:57 PM#35
Originally posted by Brigander I'd like to say, that as someone with zero interest in the game; entirely as an outside observer, and just off this thread here, that I came away with the impression of YOU as the bad guy. Mostly because you come across incredibly arrogant, and I really mean WAY over the top arrogant. I'm not trying to flame you. I'm not trolling you. I am really just making an observation, entirely unbiased; based off this thread. After all, it is a thread all about your opinions about the character of another man. I suppose if you can dish it out you should be able to take some of your own. Most of what I get from this thread, is some dude telling other dudes that some other dude isn't "qualified" to do something. I would probably go into an unctrollable rage if you told me my art wasn't worth buying because I didn't go to art school I would seriously make someone eat one of my painting if they told me that. You couldn't possibly be more rude or ignorant (used properly) to tell someone you don't know that they can't do something just because they don't have a degree in it. The founder of Wendy's didn't even graduate highschool! The guyt hat created UO did so as a frigging teenager. The guys that founded bioware were effing doctors, who just loved games. Most of the video games I played as a kid, were literally made by other kids. Once upon a time there was no such thing as a "degree" for game develoment. They were people, a lot of them kids, who were just having fun and trying something new. My own borther makes games for the iPad and iPhone, he didn't go to college. One of my cousins has been doing IT work since the nineties, he didn't go to college either. My best friend has a degree in electical engineering, he's a QA specialist at a software firm! You didn't make a single legitimate arguement in the OP. It was all ignorance (used properly) and petty nonsense. Who cares if they buy art asssets and don't use their own engines, most of the games you play were probably made the exact same way and you don't even know it. And withdrawing because of how the game works? Ddin't read about the land purchase stuff before you donated? I'm not even following the game and I knew you had to buy the land. The games trying to do something like entropia universe does, and it's working for them. Hell, I'm actually considering the possibility of buying land early on, depending on what it costs and how the game looks like it's shaping up. It could be a worlthwhile investment if everything goes well. It worked for guys in entropia, and I dont' think it was a fluke.
Where in the world do you get off...
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11/30/12 2:32:55 PM#36
Originally posted by Brigander Why in heavens name woudl anyone need that... Infact it is better that he actually know how to run a project rather then having a "degree" but no real clue on how to run a project.
degree... my my my... that was a good one... Maybe it makes me old but when i was young you would have been laughed out of campus for even voicing such a thing and games got done any way.
No degree... *shakes head* This have been a good conversation |
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Thanks for your reply, I guess we just have different standards for developers and our games. I can agree to disagree, but I see no reason to pick through your reply and fight someone who isn't really anyone I know and or have any issue with. Good luck. By the way you're using examples that are far out of date and not really relatable to today, like Wendys? Totally different times, with different means.
I do find it comical though people keep quoting same things without really reading the whole thread and replies, and just keep bringing up one point over and over.
Can anyone answer me why then they apparently 8000 kickstarters that helping originally? This is according to Greed Monger that they lost 8000+. Anyone? Hello? Everyone will disagree with me here, call me the bad guy, say I am not qualified to have an opinion, but no one ever can answer this question because the truth is while a small group here may still like Greed Monger, there's more who realize their issues. |
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11/30/12 2:38:50 PM#38
No need, as it is your money, i just found it hilarious that having a degree in game design have reached such acclaim in the eyes of the public that it is a deal breaker. I am not doubting that in maybe 10-15 years such athing might actually be worth anything in reality but seeing as most game educations are still finding their way i highly doubt it.
That was a very silly point to begin with and you must have realised that people would pick hard on that one. This have been a good conversation |
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11/30/12 2:40:09 PM#39
Originally posted by Brigander Some people don't really care. You started your entire post ranting that someone isn't qualified to do something because they don't have a degree in. Hard to take any other of the opinions you stated as having merit. You're simply wrong man. A degree doesn't make anyone qualified to do anything, it only means you're supposed to be competent enough to do a job in that field, and that's not even guaranteed. I guess you never played a bioware game, or heard of bioware. |
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No, I expected this community to know how to read a whole post, actually. I guess you, and others, failed to do that, no offense. Having a game design or game design backgound isn't required (as I am saying this now for a third time), but I PERSONALLY feel more assured if someone has a history in game design, not someone who just is doing this spontaneously out of the blue with prior projects and history of development, nor codes, models, or really does any actual developing.
I am not saying that will deteremine a game's success, but I am saying that I think his lack of being in the industry shows more than his actual development team, because he's overly vocal and aggressive to the point where you can tell his level of professionalism is low, and for ME (PERSONALLY) I just am turned off by that. It makes me feel like he's not that serious about the project, that he's too reckless to really be thinking about the consequences of his actions, and those actions so far have lost him 8000+ backers.
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