Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

(I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

(I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

For what it's worth; I spent more of my time in DF doing PVE than PVP. I enjoyed the crafting (while not terribly deep), loved the exploration, and the game had the best mob AI I've encountered in the genre.

I never had any problems finding fun things to do when I wasn't doing some PVP in DF.

Comparing a themepark map to a sandbox map is not a good comparison... By definition themepark and sandbox maps serve a completely different purposes within the games design. This would be like comparing DF:UW's item list to that of WoW and then drawing the conclusion that WoW is far better because it has 100,000 more items (because items serve a completly different purpose between the two game styles).

As to the DF:UW map... I'm not in the beta, so I don't know for sure what DF:UW will be like, but I assume it will be very similar to DF, which was pretty diverse and varied with, as others have said, tons of places to explore, poke around, and discover interesting things. I think it's one of the best sandbox maps in any current MMO (and one of the better aspects of DF). Although some nice semi-dense forest areas would be nice.

As to the argument that DF was just a huge map with tons of empty space... IMHO, that's all a matter of perspective. In my experience, sometimes it seemed like there was too much empty space and sometimes it seemed like I couldn't walk 10 feet without running into 14 people that wanted to kill me. That balance was balanced well, if you ask me.

A few things...

1) I will be extraordinarily disapointed if DF:UW is simply a reskinned version of the DF map with all the same locations/spawns/etc.

2) As good of a sandbox as DF was, one thing I _hated_ about the map, and thought was a slap in the face of the whole sandbox theme, was that _all_ of the cities/hamlets/villages were static with predefined values for size/defenses/assets. I don't see DF:UW doing anything to address this shortcoming, but it does seems like they're trying to change the rest of the city/asset system to help prevent some of the less desireable things that happened in DF (like comepletely worthless cities or people owning as many cities as possible for no other reason than to have them, but never using them). Some form of city mantinence (tax) would be nice

3) For all of SB's faults as a game its map was by far the best simply because of it's dynamic citys/environment. Still waiting for SB2...

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

(I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

There is as much pve as you want! From small solo mob spawns to large boss mobs that require large groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NctL82Ic0JQ

Originally posted by Impeator101

... Unholy Wars does not look like it will have the same diversity of enviornments that WoW had, no really exotic locations, just Grasslands, Snow, Volcanoe Ashlands, Deserts and Wasteland. The world itself also looks very empty, I wanna see huge cities that are alive with people (NPC's).

There will be huge cities that are alive with people, but those will be the player cities.  In Darkfall 1.0 the NPCs used the same server-side resources as a player avatar, meaning that large NPC loads also created significant lag when decent numbers of players were present as well.  My understanding is that is part of why they removed NPC guards in beta and put in guard towers instead.  When they talk of "needing to remake the game from the ground up" they really did mean it, and need it - with the new designs, NPC 'fluff' citizens will likely be far more easily implemented, without causing significant lag issues.  

As for diversity, Darkfall 1.0 had that in spades.  I hope the world designers have left in large, grassy fields (etc), and not fallen into the WoW trap of feeling the need to jam clutter into every open space ever made.  Some of the most epic pvp battles ever were such because of the huge open spaces around certain cities - there was no safe advance other than full on frontal assault, which led to cavalry charges and immense mage vs mage long range spell duels.  Superb stuff, but only possible because the terrain was "empty" compared to WoW or other games on rails.

Also never forget - the moment you think the world is too big or too empty, you're going to realise this is a FFA PvP game, and no matter how far away from "civilization" you think you are, no matter how "alone" you think you are, the truth is the world is not nearly large enough to hide from the player killers who will be searching for you :)

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

(I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

For what it's worth; I spent more of my time in DF doing PVE than PVP. I enjoyed the crafting (while not terribly deep), loved the exploration, and the game had the best mob AI I've encountered in the genre.

I never had any problems finding fun things to do when I wasn't doing some PVP in DF.

i agree with all this (except the part about crafting, but it wasn't particularly bad, i just hate crafting in general).

i barely PVP'ed at all due to the huge noob-to-vet power gap that it was for the majority of its life.  

all my 4-5 months of DF was PVE, mostly solo, altho i was in a couple clans for a bit.

but if the launch is anything like DF-in-2009's launch, you will be attacked regularly by players while you are out PVE'ing.

Originally posted by Cocophish

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

(I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

There is as much pve as you want! From small solo mob spawns to large boss mobs that require large groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NctL82Ic0JQ

 

This is totally true.  I played Darkfall for a couple years, primarily as a pve / naval pvp player.  Darkfall had some of the best pve ever, and taking down a red dragon with a bunch of new players with bows never (ever) failed to be incredibly fun, and kiling kraken & golems with ship cannons was just the icing on the cake :)

Anyone who says DF:UW is pure pvp has missed the point - the backbone of the player economy is people mining, chopping wood, and pveíng.  Player cities were never built by PvP - they were built by socially minded harvesters, crafters and pve'ers.  All of whom then rallied together to defend what they had built, when pvp players decided to just try to take it off them.  As someone who baked bread and made arrows during an extended siege (and we won!), never let anyone tell you Darkfall is only about pvp.  It's like EVE Online in that regard - there is a heavy focus on pvp, but that pvp simply could not happen without the rest of the game world.  A mighty warrior in heavy armour with greatsword is the icon of pvp, but he or she would be naked without the pve and crafting that made all their gear! 

Originally posted by Flute

Originally posted by Cocophish

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Out of curiosity, I've been told by several people on this site that DF:UW is basically pure PvP, with little or no PvE.  What's the point of such a huge world in that case?

(I didn't play DF, so this is all new to me)

There is as much pve as you want! From small solo mob spawns to large boss mobs that require large groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NctL82Ic0JQ

 

 

This is totally true.  I played Darkfall for a couple years, primarily as a pve / naval pvp player.  Darkfall had some of the best pve ever, and taking down a red dragon with a bunch of new players with bows never (ever) failed to be incredibly fun, and kiling kraken & golems with ship cannons was just the icing on the cake :)

 

Anyone who says DF:UW is pure pvp has missed the point - the backbone of the player economy is people mining, chopping wood, and pveíng.  Player cities were never built by PvP - they were built by socially minded harvesters, crafters and pve'ers.  All of whom then rallied together to defend what they had built, when pvp players decided to just try to take it off them.  As someone who baked bread and made arrows during an extended siege (and we won!), never let anyone tell you Darkfall is only about pvp.  It's like EVE Online in that regard - there is a heavy focus on pvp, but that pvp simply could not happen without the rest of the game world.  A mighty warrior in heavy armour with greatsword is the icon of pvp, but he or she would be naked without the pve and crafting that made all their gear! 

Well, shit.  I wish you guys would make up your mind.  I all but abandoned plans to buy this until now.  I love world pvp, but I don't want a game that is basically all world pvp with nothing else. When is the pre-order??  :)

Thanks for the replies BTW.

Originally posted by Impeator101

The original DarkFall game will be about the same size and UW, here is a good comparison with WoW on the size.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcCOPDpha5I   Read the comment the Uploader made. What bothers me is the Sprinting time is so short for Darkfall and it seems like there is unlimited sprint. I hope there is not Unlimited Sprint in Unholy Wars. 

 

As for the World itself, WoW may be a lot smaller but every single zone looked different and was very detailed. Unholy Wars does not look like it will have the same diversity of enviornments that WoW had, no really exotic locations, just Grasslands, Snow, Volcanoe Ashlands, Deserts and Wasteland. The world itself also looks very empty, I wanna see huge cities that are alive with people (NPC's).

In darkfall the people are actually people. I've been in busy cities bustling with people many times however, this is a scenario that needs to be earned.

Darkfall is about earning victory through blood, sweat and tears. Things that you think are missing in darkfall from your favorite mmorpg are most likely left out by design.

So a list of things you can do in this game.

1. Raid Dungeons deep underground or above ground areas for Epic PVE encounters with huge bosses that you need a group to fight, will it have this? 

2. Questing, will the questing even have variety? 

3. Exploring (any mmo you can do this)

4. World PVP 

5. Organised PVP offenses like assaulting the enemies citie/fortress

6. Ship PVP battles

Well those are all the things you can do in the game.

Originally posted by Caaahl

Say what!?

 

DF had the most beautiful hand made exotic locations I've ever seen in any mmo. Paired with breathtaking sunsets and awsome shadows.

 

Say what you want about DF graphics, but the environment has always been one of the big plus factors for DF.

 

PS: Here is an old video i made during a pve trip with friends. So i just filmed along when we were travelling thorugh the world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Bgyiet99s

I 100% agree with this..  And also I love your sig lol

Originally posted by Impeator101

The original DarkFall game will be about the same size and UW, here is a good comparison with WoW on the size.

 Incorrect.  The world in Unholy Wars will be significantly SMALLER than the old world.  The old world was far far far far far too large and spread the population out way too thin.

They cut out a lot of the unused water areas, brought islands closer to the main land, made the 4 sub continents smaller and brought those closer to the main land as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcCOPDpha5I   Read the comment the Uploader made. What bothers me is the Sprinting time is so short for Darkfall and it seems like there is unlimited sprint. I hope there is not Unlimited Sprint in Unholy Wars. 

 Sprinting was never unlimited in Darkfall 1.  Sprinting used stamina and after about 2-3 minutes of continuous sprinting (without casting mana to stamina, using food, or using a stamina pot) you would be out of stamina and no longer able to run.  The times in the video are completely inaccurate.  I could travel on a mount from one corner of the world to the other in about 2 hours.  It would be about 4 or 5 hours running...but there is no logical reason to ever do that.  The longest trek I made on foot was from Alfarlands (bottom center mainland) to CBay on Yssam (right side of top right continent) when I was a new player.  That took about 2-3 hours, but I had a blast because I was exploring the world for the first time.

As for the World itself, WoW may be a lot smaller but every single zone looked different and was very detailed. Unholy Wars does not look like it will have the same diversity of enviornments that WoW had, no really exotic locations, just Grasslands, Snow, Volcanoe Ashlands, Deserts and Wasteland. The world itself also looks very empty, I wanna see huge cities that are alive with people (NPC's).

Darkfall 1 didn't have NPC filled cities.  There are about 5 NPC cities in each race's area on the main land, and each had usually between 4 and 7 NPCs.  DF:UW won't have this either.  There is no point to NPC cities in a game that has 95% of its content generated by players.  It's a major difference between sandbox and themepark style MMOs.  The areas of the world we've seen in the recent videos look spectacular and are exactly what they should be for a game like Darkfall.

Originally posted by Impeator101

So a list of things you can do in this game.

1. Raid Dungeons deep underground or above ground areas for Epic PVE encounters with huge bosses that you need a group to fight, will it have this? 

No raid dungeons.  Dungeons in Darkfall are non-instanced PvE areas that usually contain decent mob spawns.  They might put some big bosses in these for UW who knows... but it wasn't in DF1.  PvE is not the main focus of DF:UW, it is mostly a means of aquiring materials/gold/reagants for PvPing later on.

2. Questing, will the questing even have variety? 

They have removed questing entirely for DF:UW.  There was barely any questing in DF1 as it was.  In DF:UW there is an achievement system that shows you achievements you can accomplish based on location.  This will serve as an exploration based questing system in a way....but I'm sure it will be heavily PvP based.  We'll see how that plays out.

3. Exploring (any mmo you can do this)

A huge aspect of Darkfall.  My first month in DF1 was spent roaming the world and dying in all sorts of random encounters with mobs and other players.

4. World PVP 

This is what Darkfall is about. DF:UW will have a heavy focus on clan and alliance warfare.  There will be resource nodes on timers throughout the world that can be controlled by clans that own cities nearby.  These will be fought over all day every day.

5. Organised PVP offenses like assaulting the enemies citie/fortress

The main calling card of Darkfall....siege warfare.

6. Ship PVP battles

Honestly naval warfare in DF1 was very lackluster and boring for the most part.  Also the fact that you could water begone (a form of water bunnyhopping) faster than a ship could sail, made it all pretty pointless.  I spent a large majority of my time in Darkfall in the water because my clan was always very good at water archery... which is what every ship battle turned into.  DF:UW will only have like 2 ships in at launch if that and really there won't be a focus on naval warfare until much later on.

 

Well those are all the things you can do in the game.

Originally posted by DMKano
I see several posters mentioning "handcrafted" world design - every aaa game has their world handcrafted. What major game didn't have the world handcrafted?

regardless of the ACTUAL method employed..... 

a good number of EQ1 zones looked pretty random

Planetside 1 looked randomly generated.

haven't tried PS2 yet, but i doubt the world design aspect is much better, since they weren't attempting to make an actual world.  just gigantic arenas.

Note:

DFO1 was FAR more detailed than  any zone in WOW.  No comparison.

Nearly every game has been designed using auto-terrain generators.  I know of none other than DFO which use a hand crafted world.

We have limited information on the world size.  We know it has been redesigned but nowhere has it been indicated that it is "much" smaller.  If you read Av sttemtns carefully they indicated the wate areas have been reduced and a few areas redesigned.  Don't read anyhting into m to what they said.  We simply don't know.  The DFO world was vast, but some areas were popluated and others quite empty.

Originally posted by BuniontToes

Note:

DFO1 was FAR more detailed than  any zone in WOW.  No comparison.

 

Note:

You must have been playing a different WoW than I have. Even if the gameplay in WoW is basic themepark garbage, the zones in that game are peerless in detail, atmosphere and diversity. Even more so with Cataclysm changes and new Pandaria zones.

Frankly, adding flying mounts to WoW was the worst decision they ever made. The world they had so beautifully crafted was utterly wasted.

this thread is legit..

comparing darkfall with world of warcraft..

I do question the people on this site.. whenever a game brings something new or a new game is gonna be released it has always been wow this, wow that, compared to wow that.

Poeple come with opinions.. which are later on gonna be facts..

If you never played the game.. do some research first.. or try out the game in 10 days.