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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The amount of people who settle for Instanced PvP Trash simply amazes me.

23 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
447 posts found
  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4290

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/27/12 4:01:43 PM#41
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Sounds to me like the OP wants sheep to hunt (World PvP) and can't deal with fighting other wolves of equatable skill / gear (Instanced PvP).

Sounds like you've never played a PvP game in your life. DAoC didn't have instanced PvP, and people were still of equal skill levels. Explain that.

Pretty easy to explain, some people like pvp on equal footings.  He didn't say people don't like that, he made a comment about the OP's preferences.  Whether the OP is one or not remains to be seen.

And there is a lot of ganking in ffa pvp games.  That is not opinion.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  koboldfodder

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 342

11/27/12 4:03:36 PM#42

SWG did a few things right.  PVP was one of them.  Anywhere, anyplace and anytime in space or on the ground.  Plus probably the greatest PVP subsytem every created, the Bounty system.  Crafting, resource system, space loot system, housing and non combat professions were the other things they did great.

 

Too bad the game was a technical flop right from the beginning.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/27/12 4:05:07 PM#43
Why play ghettoed off 2nd class citizen to the raiders crap in your wow type mmos when you could be playing eve or planetside?
  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

11/27/12 4:09:32 PM#44
Originally posted by koboldfodder

SWG did a few things right.  PVP was one of them.  Anywhere, anyplace and anytime in space or on the ground.  Plus probably the greatest PVP subsytem every created, the Bounty system.  Crafting, resource system, space loot system, housing and non combat professions were the other things they did great.

 

Too bad the game was a technical flop right from the beginning.

Not to burst your bubble, but the thread isn't about SWG, its about PvP.

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

11/27/12 4:10:00 PM#45
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.


  Neo_Liberty

Elite Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 379

11/27/12 4:26:33 PM#46
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

I agree with you. its amazing how high and might the ppl on these forums are.... so selfish and my opinion is the true religion crap.... ppl like different things... ganking owpvp.. is crap.. there is not other way to describe it.. if owpvp is implemented well then ppl will like it.. the insults and name calling is just childish.. grow up.

 

Edit: an example of good owpvp is when each individual has the choice if they want to participate.. meaning u can turn off/on pvp at will... and it could have a cool down so that ppl couldn't cheat... but allowing new players to be assaulted by high lvl players and allowing them to ruin their gameplay by allowing others to dictate their playstyle is ludicrous.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/27/12 4:27:48 PM#47

For those of you confused...

 

It IS possible to have NONinstanced PvP, that ISN'T FFA full loot PvP.

 

You realize this, right?

 

Look up DAoC's PvP. Not a stitch of it instanced.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/27/12 4:31:21 PM#48
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

That's because, by and large, it is trash. Most MMOs have poorly thought out, stitched onto the end PvP. Very few MMOs include instanced PvP into the core design of the game. That's why they instance it, because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game. Good PVP is built into the core of the game. Good game systems are well thought out and deep.

Instanced PvP generally, and almost always, has bad, tacked on game systems. That may be your thing, but from an objective viewpoint, most instanced PvP is poorly thought out garbage.

  Neo_Liberty

Elite Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 379

11/27/12 4:34:49 PM#49
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

That's because, by and large, it is trash. Most MMOs have poorly thought out, stitched onto the end PvP. Very few MMOs include instanced PvP into the core design of the game. That's why they instance it, because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game. Good PVP is built into the core of the game. Good game systems are well thought out and deep.

Instanced PvP generally, and almost always, has bad, tacked on game systems. That may be your thing, but from an objective viewpoint, most instanced PvP is poorly thought out garbage.

I can agree with your statement.. ur thoughts are reasonable..u rage against the devs poor implementation not instanced pvp itself.. makes perfect sense.+1

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2372

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

11/27/12 4:35:27 PM#50
Originally posted by mmoDAD

When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

 

Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that is isn't completely structured and even is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

 

Servers should go like this:

Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

 

I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.

Do you remember EverQuests Rallos Zek server? Sure it had the PvP you are talking about, it also had people that would de-level toons just to keep the skills from the higher levels and make them incredibly hard to kill if you were doing it without resorting to that BS. It also had people that would camp zone lines, use exploits to take ALL your gear, not just your money and one item. It had people that would say some of the rudest most immature sh*t. It had the jackasses that love to pull out the "wolves" and "sheep" references because they can type so hard...

 

Yeah, I can see why people would LOVE to go back to those days. And you want to know something? If those days and styloes were so popular then they would still be implemented.

It is the same as all the drama mammas that cry to this day about SWG. If that game was so popular and sucessful, you know what? It would still be around and thriving to this day.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2255

"Free to play, pay to win""

11/27/12 4:36:09 PM#51
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

That's because, by and large, it is trash. Most MMOs have poorly thought out, stitched onto the end PvP. Very few MMOs include instanced PvP into the core design of the game. That's why they instance it, because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game. Good PVP is built into the core of the game. Good game systems are well thought out and deep.

Instanced PvP generally, and almost always, has bad, tacked on game systems. That may be your thing, but from an objective viewpoint, most instanced PvP is poorly thought out garbage.

I can agree with your statement.. ur thoughts are reasonable..u rage against the devs poor implementation not instanced pvp itself.. makes perfect sense.+1

Wait, so hes pissed about PvE games offering bad PvP? I'm facepalming RIGHT now.

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/27/12 4:38:07 PM#52
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

That's because, by and large, it is trash. Most MMOs have poorly thought out, stitched onto the end PvP. Very few MMOs include instanced PvP into the core design of the game. That's why they instance it, because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game. Good PVP is built into the core of the game. Good game systems are well thought out and deep.

Instanced PvP generally, and almost always, has bad, tacked on game systems. That may be your thing, but from an objective viewpoint, most instanced PvP is poorly thought out garbage.

I can agree with your statement.. ur thoughts are reasonable..u rage against the devs poor implementation not instanced pvp itself.. makes perfect sense.+1

Wait, so hes pissed about PvE games offering bad PvP? I'm facepalming RIGHT now.

I'm pissed when MMOs implement bad game systems. You can have great PvE and great PvP in the same game. See: DAoC.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/27/12 4:40:36 PM#53
Originally posted by Slampig
And you want to know something? If those days and styloes were so popular then they would still be implemented.

 

Pretty much anyone who ever says something like this should have all their opinion entirely disregarded.

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

11/27/12 4:41:33 PM#54
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

That's because, by and large, it is trash. Most MMOs have poorly thought out, stitched onto the end PvP. Very few MMOs include instanced PvP into the core design of the game. That's why they instance it, because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game. Good PVP is built into the core of the game. Good game systems are well thought out and deep.

Instanced PvP generally, and almost always, has bad, tacked on game systems. That may be your thing, but from an objective viewpoint, most instanced PvP is poorly thought out garbage.

I can agree with your statement.. ur thoughts are reasonable..u rage against the devs poor implementation not instanced pvp itself.. makes perfect sense.+1

Wait, so hes pissed about PvE games offering bad PvP? I'm facepalming RIGHT now.

I'm pissed when MMOs implement bad game systems. You can have great PvE and great PvP in the same game. See: DAoC.

/facepalm Lol, the irony.

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  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2255

"Free to play, pay to win""

11/27/12 4:41:34 PM#55
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

That's because, by and large, it is trash. Most MMOs have poorly thought out, stitched onto the end PvP. Very few MMOs include instanced PvP into the core design of the game. That's why they instance it, because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game. Good PVP is built into the core of the game. Good game systems are well thought out and deep.

Instanced PvP generally, and almost always, has bad, tacked on game systems. That may be your thing, but from an objective viewpoint, most instanced PvP is poorly thought out garbage.

I can agree with your statement.. ur thoughts are reasonable..u rage against the devs poor implementation not instanced pvp itself.. makes perfect sense.+1

Wait, so hes pissed about PvE games offering bad PvP? I'm facepalming RIGHT now.

I'm pissed when MMOs implement bad game systems. You can have great PvE and great PvP in the same game. See: DAoC.

Again, you are looking at games that aren't built as PvP games, but still add arena-style PvP for people that enjoy that kind of thing. And you compare them to DaoC? Are you drunk, sir?

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  Uzik

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 273

11/27/12 4:42:33 PM#56
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Uzik

Let the carebears have their instanced and meaningless PvP.

 

All the real PvP'rs will be playing games like Darkfall where PvP has consequences and meaning.

I love this - you mean Gankers. Because that is all the original Darkfall was. It was an utter trash game. There is a huge difference. Some people don't like Open world PvP and like more instanced and organized PvP, not mayhem.

 

I also expect Darkfall 2 to be a very lonely place as people will find out how trashy the game is and leave in droves - just my opinion.

 

[mod edit]

 

Darkfall 1.0 was a game produced by a very small development team over a long period of time.  Despite all its problems it still sold a large number of copies, and maintained enough subscribers to finance Darkfall Unholy Wars.

 

If you enjoy CoD style meaningless MMO PvP then go ahead and play these themepark games.  Those of us who like actually fighting over something meaningful will play games like Darkfall and EVE.

(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

11/27/12 4:42:38 PM#57
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

That's because, by and large, it is trash. Most MMOs have poorly thought out, stitched onto the end PvP. Very few MMOs include instanced PvP into the core design of the game. That's why they instance it, because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game. Good PVP is built into the core of the game. Good game systems are well thought out and deep.

Instanced PvP generally, and almost always, has bad, tacked on game systems. That may be your thing, but from an objective viewpoint, most instanced PvP is poorly thought out garbage.

You don't seem to get the idea that instanced pvp is not the byproduct of tacked on pvp desing. It is it's own type of pvp that can be designed from the beggining or tacked on just like owpvp. It's a different type of pvp.

 

Objective viewpoint? I see there is no discussion to be had, with your "objective" facts of opinion...


  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1293

11/27/12 4:43:26 PM#58

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: ESO, ArcheAge, Class4, EQN.

Dead and Buried: NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Neo_Liberty

Elite Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 379

11/27/12 4:45:36 PM#59

 

Oh yea, 1,000+ people fighting over ACTUAL control of cities is just ganking..  Moron.

 

Darkfall 1.0 was a game produced by a very small development team over a long period of time.  Despite all its problems it still sold a large number of copies, and maintained enough subscribers to finance Darkfall Unholy Wars.

 

If you enjoy CoD style meaningless MMO PvP then go ahead and play these themepark games.  Those of us who like actually fighting over something meaningful will play games like Darkfall and EVE.

I don't think that is the issue. The issue is that these games aren't newbie friendly... if i join the game a year after release and everytime i login i get ganked 2 min into the game... and 40 sec after getting rezzed.. what is the point?

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/27/12 4:48:00 PM#60
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Kuppa

Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

 

The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

 

Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

You mean deal with it like this ?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836

Its so full of trash that gamers are forced  to develope their own addons so they dont need watch that trash.

 

 

He's not saying "WoW instanced pvp is trash", he is saying all of it. Im saying thats not true, he just has different pvp tastes. WoW is just one piece of the pie.

 

And my "deal with it" remark is the fact that he likes owpvp and not spvp but there are other players that are the other way around.

That's because, by and large, it is trash. Most MMOs have poorly thought out, stitched onto the end PvP. Very few MMOs include instanced PvP into the core design of the game. That's why they instance it, because it has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game. Good PVP is built into the core of the game. Good game systems are well thought out and deep.

Instanced PvP generally, and almost always, has bad, tacked on game systems. That may be your thing, but from an objective viewpoint, most instanced PvP is poorly thought out garbage.

I can agree with your statement.. ur thoughts are reasonable..u rage against the devs poor implementation not instanced pvp itself.. makes perfect sense.+1

Wait, so hes pissed about PvE games offering bad PvP? I'm facepalming RIGHT now.

I'm pissed when MMOs implement bad game systems. You can have great PvE and great PvP in the same game. See: DAoC.

Again, you are looking at games that aren't built as PvP games, but still add arena-style PvP for people that enjoy that kind of thing. And you compare them to DaoC? Are you drunk, sir?

How are you unable to comprehend that it is possible to have good PvE in a PvP game and good PvP in a PvE game?

Just because an MMO focuses on PvE, it does not get a free pass to have poorly thought out, poorly designed tacked on PvP.

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