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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The amount of people who settle for Instanced PvP Trash simply amazes me.

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447 posts found
  VengeSunsoar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4850

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/30/12 3:49:40 PM#281
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Laughing-man



 

 

Sure it is.  Just cause it's allowed doesn't make it not griefing. 

And yes "legitamite griefing"  e.g corpse camping, camping newb spawn area, going after people many mnay levels lower... happens a lot

getting killed isn't an issue.  Harrassment is and yes happens quite a bit.

edit - And the options are not simply pvp or pve.  There are many options in between such as not killing someone below a certain level, only killing someone within certain levels of you, instanced pvp  all are options between the two.

Pking isn't griefing, jesus titty fking christ.

 

Lopsided camping occurs far more frequently in consensual pvp settings.

 

"Harrassement happens quite a bit", about as much as it does in pve games.

IMO PKing can very much be griefing.

Lopsided camping IMO occurs at about the same rate in consentual or non consentual pvp games.

Harrassment in a PVE game is easily dealt with through ignore and a gm.

Harrassment in a pvp game is acceptable behaviour.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20139

11/30/12 3:49:49 PM#282
Originally posted by Kuinn

Planetside 2 is not a MMORPG, but it does have huge open world endless PvP and I love it. I run into uneven, spontaneous situations all around the maps constantly and it's damn well fun. I hope one day similar game is made where there is other activities besides PvP too, resource gathering and stuff.

I think PS2 is good precisely because it focuses on nothing but PvP combat. I doubt it would be as good if it has resource gathering and stuff. I think purposely the devs don't put in every system conceivable.

If you want to gather resources, you can always go play Tales in the Dessert, or a thousand other games that have it.

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

11/30/12 4:03:43 PM#283
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Jonoku
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

When I played EVE the idea was, if it's a fair fight, you planned it wrong. (Something I have mentioned before)

You wanted an advantage. If they had ten ships then you wanted twenty. It was about surprise, it was about gaining intellegence, it was about having the right kind of ships and yes it was about having more than your opponent.

In instanced pvp your, side has the same amount of people as the other side, your all about the same level, it is about a fair fight. It's about organization, communication and  tactics, and in many cases it is about gear (Which is why gamers are against pay to win)

Now this wouldn't encourage me to play EVE, in other OPvP games, this wasnt the case.

Noone claimed it is for everybody.

I know..........

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

11/30/12 4:08:23 PM#284
Most of the problems come from the mind set in OPvP games of "This game has PvP so I MUST kill everyone" where I think most people see it as "If I have a reason to kill someone I will, but a level 1 noob isn;t worth engaging with because ther is no skill involved in winning". For me personally the reason I participate in more structured PvP is simply because I PvP as a contest of skill and if there is such an imbalance, either way, then I don't find it interesting. A tough fight where 2 equal sides meet and the winner is because they are better PvP'ers is more interesting to me then a game where a level 80 attacks my as a level 1, I have no chance and usually just let them kill me and get on with things. A personal opinion but I don't get the mentality some people have who like to kill noobs "Because it is PvP". IMO killing a noob ISN'T PvP, that is why I usually don't play such games unless it has been designed well....and not many games are.
  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2543

11/30/12 4:17:32 PM#285


Originally posted by mmoDAD
When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

 

Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that isn't completely structured  is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

 

Servers should go like this:

Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

 

I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.


Unless cheating is something of the past im all for open pvp with full loot only no savezones at all.

Darkfall failed mainly becouse of CHEATING.

World pvp was even trash in wow in early days you losing nothing when dying thats for BIG C...

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  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 876

11/30/12 4:18:49 PM#286
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Most of the problems come from the mind set in OPvP games of "This game has PvP so I MUST kill everyone" where I think most people see it as "If I have a reason to kill someone I will, but a level 1 noob isn;t worth engaging with because ther is no skill involved in winning". For me personally the reason I participate in more structured PvP is simply because I PvP as a contest of skill and if there is such an imbalance, either way, then I don't find it interesting. A tough fight where 2 equal sides meet and the winner is because they are better PvP'ers is more interesting to me then a game where a level 80 attacks my as a level 1, I have no chance and usually just let them kill me and get on with things. A personal opinion but I don't get the mentality some people have who like to kill noobs "Because it is PvP". IMO killing a noob ISN'T PvP, that is why I usually don't play such games unless it has been designed well....and not many games are.

Should read:

Most of the problems come from the mind set in OPvP games of "This game has PvP so I am gonna kill everyone because I can....Muwahahahaha!! "  where I think possibly, maybe a few people, not really sure, maybe none at all, see it as "If I have a reason to kill someone I will. "  

I mean lets be real here....  

 

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  VengeSunsoar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4850

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/30/12 4:21:23 PM#287
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Most of the problems come from the mind set in OPvP games of "This game has PvP so I MUST kill everyone" where I think most people see it as "If I have a reason to kill someone I will, but a level 1 noob isn;t worth engaging with because ther is no skill involved in winning". For me personally the reason I participate in more structured PvP is simply because I PvP as a contest of skill and if there is such an imbalance, either way, then I don't find it interesting. A tough fight where 2 equal sides meet and the winner is because they are better PvP'ers is more interesting to me then a game where a level 80 attacks my as a level 1, I have no chance and usually just let them kill me and get on with things. A personal opinion but I don't get the mentality some people have who like to kill noobs "Because it is PvP". IMO killing a noob ISN'T PvP, that is why I usually don't play such games unless it has been designed well....and not many games are.

Should read:

Most of the problems come from the mind set in OPvP games of "This game has PvP so I am gonna kill everyone because I can....Muwahahahaha!! "  where I think possibly, maybe a few people, not really sure, maybe none at all, see it as "If I have a reason to kill someone I will. "  

I mean lets be real here....  

 

It might even be something as simple as 98% of the population will only kill someone if they have a good reason, and 2% will kill everything.  But that 2% will do it 90% of the time and to lower level players.

Therefore while most don't do it, it still happens frequently.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  User Deleted
11/30/12 4:35:20 PM#288
Originally posted by VengeSunsoa

 

It might even be something as simple as 98% of the population will only kill someone if they have a good reason, and 2% will kill everything.  But that 2% will do it 90% of the time and to lower level players.

Therefore while most don't do it, it still happens frequently.

How to deal with this 2% population

- /write /PvP channel "Guys heres some Tippali from xxMegakillersxx guild trying to gank me

- unnamed PvPr -cool omw!

There is many many ways,and killing them gives extra pleasure,better honor than wow honor points,maybe find new friends this way etc. they are essential part of PvP.

 

  Kuinn

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 2058

11/30/12 4:45:28 PM#289
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kuinn

Planetside 2 is not a MMORPG, but it does have huge open world endless PvP and I love it. I run into uneven, spontaneous situations all around the maps constantly and it's damn well fun. I hope one day similar game is made where there is other activities besides PvP too, resource gathering and stuff.

I think PS2 is good precisely because it focuses on nothing but PvP combat. I doubt it would be as good if it has resource gathering and stuff. I think purposely the devs don't put in every system conceivable.

If you want to gather resources, you can always go play Tales in the Dessert, or a thousand other games that have it.

 

It does not work that way. People dont just jump into whatever random game with different gameplay mechanics to get to play some certain feature. If it worked like that people wouldnt whine about games since pretty much every feature that people whine for not being present in their game is available in some other game. I dont go play EVE because I want a rich space experience in SWTOR.

 

Edit: Actually it seems like the resource gathering is coming to PS2, I was browsing the PS2 forums and stumbled upon a thread with a link to http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/30/planetside-2-soe-details-its-3-year-plan-wants-to-run-until-2025-if-possible/

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

11/30/12 4:53:41 PM#290
Originally posted by WhiteLantern

NEWS FLASH:

 

People like different things.

Common sense is not allowed.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10880

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/30/12 5:33:09 PM#291


Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by VengeSunsoa   It might even be something as simple as 98% of the population will only kill someone if they have a good reason, and 2% will kill everything.  But that 2% will do it 90% of the time and to lower level players. Therefore while most don't do it, it still happens frequently.
How to deal with this 2% population

- /write /PvP channel "Guys heres some Tippali from xxMegakillersxx guild trying to gank me

- unnamed PvPr -cool omw!

There is many many ways,and killing them gives extra pleasure,better honor than wow honor points,maybe find new friends this way etc. they are essential part of PvP.

 




Yeah...that doesn't work. Not going to bother going into any of the reasons why it doesn't work. It just doesn't.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Magicpsychoc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/29/12
Posts: 4

11/30/12 5:39:52 PM#292
Originally posted by mmoDAD

When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

 

Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that isn't completely structured  is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

 

Servers should go like this:

Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

 

I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.

I use to be confused about this as well, then someone made a post in the Tera forums that was just so true.  The post said, "why are the pvers posting in my pvp threads?"  you see...your pvpers, are that...straight pvpers that may or may not mind pve, but you rarely see a hardcore pvpers posting in the pve sections of threads.  Now your pvers...they want pve...and this slight little bit of pvp.  so instead of posting in their pve sections about  mutually agreed upon pvp, they go to the pvp forums and post about all their concerns and desires, etc.  And they are a vocal community, where as the masses of your hardcore pvpers never hit forums other than to troll.  So, the pvers get their way and these games tend to get run be care bear pvers...thats how you get poop instanced pvp.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

11/30/12 6:17:31 PM#293
Originally posted by Magicpsychoc

 but you rarely see a hardcore pvpers posting in the pve sections of threads

Sorry but this made me laugh. EVERY game I have followed for the last 10 years or more has always started with people happily chatting about the game...then the PvP'ers turn up DEMANDING OWPvP, calling anyone who points out the game doesn't have and isn't designed for OWPvP a 'carebear' or worse. The the game has PvP added, the PvE becomes unbalanced because of the constant whining by the PvP crowd.

The problem with the PvE sections of most if not all PvE game forums are the whiney hardcore PvP'ers complaining that this game doesn't have PvP....

Yeah, PvP'ers are a quiet bunch in PvE games....

  User Deleted
11/30/12 6:26:49 PM#294
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Laughing-man









I'm not disputing that griefing doesn't happen as often as it's talked about. It could be true that griefing doesn't happen 99% of the time in PvP games. This doesn't matter.

What I'm saying is this:

Only one player involved in an event has to perceive that event as "griefing". The definition doesn't matter...only the perception matters. They are going to describe the event as griefing.

A player doesn't actually have to experience getting griefed in order to avoid a game where they think it might happen. It doesn't matter how they define griefing.

Griefing doesn't have to be perceived as happening to many people to have an adverse impact on the perception of OWPvP games or servers.

Griefing as a reason to not engage in OWPvP games is a legitimate reason.

It's all about perception.

 

There is a difference between "I don't want to try it because I think I might get griefed" and "hurr it's 99% griefing and everyone is a sociopath".

 

On the one hand we have someone put off based on perception of a system, on the other we have someone talking shit.

  dancingstar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/11
Posts: 297

11/30/12 6:28:33 PM#295
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Magicpsychoc

 but you rarely see a hardcore pvpers posting in the pve sections of threads

Sorry but this made me laugh. EVERY game I have followed for the last 10 years or more has always started with people happily chatting about the game...then the PvP'ers turn up DEMANDING OWPvP, calling anyone who points out the game doesn't have and isn't designed for OWPvP a 'carebear' or worse. The the game has PvP added, the PvE becomes unbalanced because of the constant whining by the PvP crowd.

The problem with the PvE sections of most if not all PvE game forums are the whiney hardcore PvP'ers complaining that this game doesn't have PvP....

Yeah, PvP'ers are a quiet bunch in PvE games....

Hyperbole aside, I've observed similar things . . . people turning up on forums for PvE centric games or games with segregated PvE / PvP, and demanding open world PvP or PvP servers, predicting the game's failure if it doesn't get it, &c., &c. -- I half suspect that recent threads suggesting PvE servers in Darkfall &c. were counter-trolling by folks annoyed by this behaviour.

  User Deleted
11/30/12 6:29:26 PM#296
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

"Harrassement happens quite a bit", about as much as it does in pve games.

How is harrassment even be possible in a pve game?

I hit "LFD" go into an instanced, and group with 4 other guys. If i don't like any of them, i hit the "quit" button. They can't find me from that point on.

So tell me, how is it possible to harass me at all?

Now I know this may come as something of a shock to you, but some people do actually treat mmos as a bit more than a lobby game for dungeons.

  User Deleted
11/30/12 6:33:26 PM#297
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by VengeSunsoa   It might even be something as simple as 98% of the population will only kill someone if they have a good reason, and 2% will kill everything.  But that 2% will do it 90% of the time and to lower level players. Therefore while most don't do it, it still happens frequently.
How to deal with this 2% population

 

- /write /PvP channel "Guys heres some Tippali from xxMegakillersxx guild trying to gank me

- unnamed PvPr -cool omw!

There is many many ways,and killing them gives extra pleasure,better honor than wow honor points,maybe find new friends this way etc. they are essential part of PvP.

 




Yeah...that doesn't work. Not going to bother going into any of the reasons why it doesn't work. It just doesn't.

 

Well I do know what killed world PvP,but there is still games where it works just fine.

Nowadays its -/ write /shop channel "Guys heres some unknown from unknown guild from unknown server trying to gank me

-guyyyys,wru ??,where is everybody ?

-unnamed PvPr  -soz WSG,wts arena boost.

 

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3285

Poacher killer.

11/30/12 6:37:49 PM#298
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon

How is harrassment even be possible in a pve game?

I hit "LFD" go into an instanced, and group with 4 other guys. If i don't like any of them, i hit the "quit" button. They can't find me from that point on.

So tell me, how is it possible to harass me at all?

Now I know this may come as something of a shock to you, but some people do actually treat mmos as a bit more than a lobby game for dungeons.

LOL.

Shock and awe it will be!

Anytime I hear the words lobby and MMO together I want to spit on my monitor. Oxymoron doesn't even begin to describe how shameful and foolish this type of thinking really is. We have enough lobby style genres, this one doesn't need something that poisons it's very foundation. Shame!

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  User Deleted
11/30/12 6:42:22 PM#299
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Maelwydd
 

 

It might even be something as simple as 98% of the population will only kill someone if they have a good reason, and 2% will kill everything.  But that 2% will do it 90% of the time and to lower level players.

Therefore while most don't do it, it still happens frequently.

Which open world pvp game have you been frequently/repeatedly griefed in?

  VengeSunsoar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4850

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

11/30/12 7:10:11 PM#300
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Maelwydd
 

 

It might even be something as simple as 98% of the population will only kill someone if they have a good reason, and 2% will kill everything.  But that 2% will do it 90% of the time and to lower level players.

Therefore while most don't do it, it still happens frequently.

Which open world pvp game have you been frequently/repeatedly griefed in?

All the Open world PvP games I've tried, not a lot, just a few: Everquest, Darkfall, L2.  I never played any of them long, or in EQ's case went to a different server.  Only flagged a couple times in SWG so I can't count that.

So far OwPvP is not what I'm looking for. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

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